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Does McGuinness have any chance given the Indo's campaign against him?

  • 16-10-2011 4:52pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭


    As the paper of record, the Irish Times tends to present a generally balanced view on things. The Independent, on the other hand, tends not to.

    Can McGuinness (or, indeed, any candidate) stand a chance in an election if the most widely circulated newspaper (the Irish Independent) is campaigning against him? For example, today, the website of the Independent ran some lead articles in opposition to MMcG while the Times didn't feature him in their headlines.

    2 of the Indo articles were written by Belfast Telegraph columnists - the Independent and Belfast Telegraph are owned by the same group, and, hence, often use the same journalists. Do boardsies think this is why their coverage is so one-sided?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 32,802 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    imho there has been a lot of media outlets guilty of anti-MMG bias, not just the Irish Independent.

    You can add RTE TV, RTE radio, TV3 .....


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Its all balanced out with the amount of shinners who come online in all shapes and disguises to talk him up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    In fairness, the Indo featured a full page spread a few weeks back where Kevin Myers wrote in opposition to MMG, and another columnist, whose name escapes me, wrote in favour of him. I don;t think this media bias is as all pervasive as SF heads like to let on. Quite a lot of it is just reporting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭The Minstrel


    Sully wrote: »
    Its all balanced out with the amount of shinners who come online in all shapes and disguises to talk him up.

    But what relevance do the musings of any boards-users (or any other online forum) have? Nobody pays any notice of what goes on in online forums. The front page of the Irish Independent is a different story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭The Minstrel


    Einhard wrote: »
    In fairness, the Indo featured a front page spread a few weeks back where Kevin Myers wrote in opposition to MMG, and another columnist, whose name escapes me, wrote in favour of him. I don;t think this media bias is as all pervasive as SF heads like to let on. Quite a lot of it is just reporting.

    Ah come on now. Look at the Irish Times coverage v Irish Independent. Is the question raised in the original post re Belfast Telegraph valid?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    But what relevance do the musings of any boards-users (or any other online forum) have? Nobody pays any notice of what goes on in online forums. The front page of the Irish Independent is a different story.

    You think social media plays no role in forming political views and winning support for candidates? Good luck with that theory...:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Are we talking daily Indo or the heap of ****e they spew out on Sundays?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    Sully wrote: »
    Its all balanced out with the amount of shinners who come online in all shapes and disguises to talk him up.

    I don't agree that internet forums balance out negativity in national newspapers.

    I also don't agree that people are coming on here in disguises to talk him up, someone mentioned that in another thread on this forum and then suddenly everyone jumped on that line and started repeating it.

    Does anyone know if all the candidates will get an interview on the 6 o clock news like Sean got?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Martin McGuinness has serious questions to answer about his past. He has not provided truthful answers and an awful lot of people in this country want those answers. The media have every right to ask him about his past and to keep doing so because their readers want that information and it does sell papers which is their business.

    Other candidates have had rough rides from the media because of their pasts as well like Norris and Davis so throwing yourselves up on the cross and claiming media bias is getting tiresome. I think it is time that the Sinn Fein supporters concede that the candidate that they proposed was wholly inappropriate for the position of the head of state of the Republic of Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Ah come on now. Look at the Irish Times coverage v Irish Independent. Is the question raised in the original post re Belfast Telegraph valid?

    :P Shinners always slagged the Irish Times and called it a Unionist Protestant paper based on it's history, now they are championing it.

    No the question raised in the original point is not valid, all information is out there for anyone to find it, SF seem to be just lining up the excuses if McGuinness does not get elected and blame it on "media propaganda" :rolleyes:

    There are plenty of articles written in all papers, editorial or not, about all candidates and whilst I really do despise the "x-factor" style of examining our candidates, it will not bother me too much because I can think for myself.

    Our papers and journalists should have the freedom to question and investigate all candidates, it only seems to be McGuinness and SF who still have an air of menace to them, proven by the fact he approached the lady from RTE after the debate to give out, disgusting!

    I greatly dislike many of these guys running, but I would have zero problem talking and telling them why if they ever called to the door or if I met them on the street campaigning, I simply don't feel I can do that with SF, there is an air of menace and intimidation about them and in particular about McGuinness which is not needed for any democracy.

    So here is a better question, how is it possible that I can criticize or see journalists criticise any candidate from any party, but when it comes to SF and McGuinness, there is an air of thuggery about them so if you or a journalist criticised or delved too much into something, the mask of a modern political party slips, and you see an intimidating gang mentality there??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    gandalf wrote: »
    I think it is time that the Sinn Fein supporters concede that the candidate that they proposed was wholly inappropriate for the position of the head of state of the Republic of Ireland.

    De Valera will rise from the grave to apologise for the mess he made of our Government system long before that happens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    gandalf wrote: »
    Martin McGuinness has serious questions to answer about his past. He has not provided truthful answers and an awful lot of people in this country want those answers. The media have every right to ask him about his past and to keep doing so because their readers want that information and it does sell papers which is their business.

    Other candidates have had rough rides from the media because of their pasts as well like Norris and Davis so throwing yourselves up on the cross and claiming media bias is getting tiresome. I think it is time that the Sinn Fein supporters concede that the candidate that they proposed was wholly inappropriate for the position of the head of state of the republic of Ireland.
    He's practically head of state of northern Ireland so what's different between them and us?

    There's been no proof issued to suggest that MMcG has not provided truthful answers to the questions posed, he hasn't provided the answers the press want from him so they just keep attacking him hoping he'll crack when he won't.

    Look at Miriam O'Callaghan where they call him a "bully boy" for being accused of murdering people on live tv, if anything he was being bullied. Miriam was offered the chance to bring a colleague with her but declined and is not happy that her line of questioning was queried. I think anybody would be pretty annoyed if they accused of something like this on tv.

    It's like a campaign of hate that's waiting for him at the school gate every day. It's not upto the media to decide if he's fit to be head of state it's upto the people who cast their votes. You would struggle to see this type of media bias in some countries where their media is state controlled.

    Sinn Fein has been backing an International Independent Truth Commission since around 2008/2009 so surely he as VP of that party supports this and will be prepared to answer any questions about his past in the proper enviroment rather than in the sensationalist headline way the papers expect. The British government also has questions to answer on it's role in Ireland and has so far refused to co-operate on a meaningful level and names anyone involved as A,B,C,D,X etc so all the blame cannot be levelled at Sinn Fein members or the IRA. MMcG has been democratically elected since the mid 90's and should be respected as such as anything else is an insult to the people who voted for him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Dotsey wrote: »
    He's practically head of state of northern Ireland so what's different between them and us?

    They were given the non-violent options and refused them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Dotsey wrote: »
    He's practically head of state of northern Ireland so what's different between them and us?

    No, I think you'll find that's Queen Elizabeth 2. I can understand your confusion though... :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    Our papers and journalists should have the freedom to question and investigate all candidates, it only seems to be McGuinness and SF who still have an air of menace to them, proven by the fact he approached the lady from RTE after the debate to give out, disgusting!
    He was practically called a murderer on live tv and it's disgusting to you that he's annoyed about it? A question like that is only asked with an air of menace, he asked Miriam to bring a colleague with her into the room so he could talk to her in private and she declined even her own colleague Pat Kenny hinted that her line of questioning was wrong but wouldn't criticise her straight out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    It seems to me the British media, the Guardian and what not, are actually more balanced and fair when it comes to Martin.

    I knew at the onset that there would be a campaign by the establishment to keep him out and there has been... "Move on, but not down here" seems to be the message.

    Most people besides the ardent anti republicans, seem to acknowledge this bias in the media.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    No, I think you'll find that's Queen Elizabeth 2. I can understand your confusion though... :D
    The Anglo German queen of England wasn't elected by the people, McGuinness and Peter Robinson were. That's why I said "practically"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Dotsey wrote: »
    The Anglo German queen of England wasn't elected by the people, McGuinness and Peter Robinson were. That's why I said "practically"
    You can't be 'practically head of state' in a state that already has a head of state, unless perhaps you are just about to be sworn in. The head of state's ancestry is rather irrelevant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    "Move on, but not down here" seems to be the message.

    Isn't that what Martin calls the country whose presidency he's trying to win? ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    You can't be 'practically head of state' in a state that already has a head of state, unless perhaps you are just about to be sworn in. The head of state's ancestry is rather irrelevant.
    The democratic process must be respected


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Dotsey wrote: »
    He was practically called a murderer on live tv and it's disgusting to you that he's annoyed about it? A question like that is only asked with an air of menace, he asked Miriam to bring a colleague with her into the room so he could talk to her in private and she declined even her own colleague Pat Kenny hinted that her line of questioning was wrong but wouldn't criticise her straight out.

    In our law, and most laws, a person is as guilty of murder even if they did not pull the trigger or press the button for the bomb themselves but planned the murder and had some hand in it.

    McGuinness rose through the ranks of the PIRA to its highest levels according to pretty much anyone. Someone at such a high level would have been privy to huge amounts of information and planning of activities such as murder and bombings.

    Do you honestly believe that McGuinness was never involved at any stage with the planning or involvement in bombings or shootings?

    He was caught with explosives and bullets in the early 70s, what was this for?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Dotsey wrote: »
    He's practically head of state of northern Ireland so what's different between them and us?

    M MG and the IRA refused to lay down arms until they had a foothold in politics in NI while "down here" we've been electing governments and president since the foundation of the state.
    It's not upto the media to decide if he's fit to be head of state it's upto the people who cast their votes.

    The media wont decide the electorate will or do you class us as being uneducated too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Dotsey wrote: »
    The democratic process must be respected

    Indeed. And what's your point?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    It seems to me the British media, the Guardian and what not, are actually more balanced and fair when it comes to Martin.

    I knew at the onset that there would be a campaign by the establishment to keep him out and there has been... "Move on, but not down here" seems to be the message.

    Most people besides the ardent anti republicans, seem to acknowledge this bias in the media.

    So? There is bias in nearly all media. Norris has been hounded out of it with all the coverage, Mitchell has been laughed at the whole time, Dana has been the bible constitution extremist the whole time, Davis is the quango queen, Higgins is the old man.

    SF are as bad, if not worse, then the other parties, organising all the propaganda that you guys like but then crying like little girls when it does not go your way. SF are masters of manipulation of the media and press, so stop with the whinging because they are asking more questions then you like to answer. They are not the mafia, they are meant to be an open, democratic, modern political party.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    It's a pity the Indo and the rest of the media wouldn't do what they are supposed to and find this 'proof' that everybody is so sure is out there.
    Too busy giving us their 'opinions'. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭FionnRua


    Have the Sindo said anything that is incorrect about the former terrorist?
    Or are we suffering from a complex? Isnt it terrible that they are all against us.
    Just ask Gerry McCabe and Jean McConville.
    Time for Martys supporters to grow up.
    I am sure he showed bigger balls than this when he was out fighting for Irelands freedom on all our behalf - allegedly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's a pity the Indo and the rest of the media wouldn't do what they are supposed to and find this 'proof' that everybody is so sure is out there.
    Too busy giving us their 'opinions'. :rolleyes:

    Pretty much the standard response of all mafias.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    So? There is bias in nearly all media. Norris has been hounded out of it with all the coverage, Mitchell has been laughed at the whole time, Dana has been the bible constitution extremist the whole time, Davis is the quango queen, Higgins is the old man.

    SF are as bad, if not worse, then the other parties, organising all the propaganda that you guys like but then crying like little girls when it does not go your way. SF are masters of manipulation of the media and press, so stop with the whinging because they are asking more questions then you like to answer. They are not the mafia, they are meant to be an open, democratic, modern political party.
    I really don't care about what the rags say, but when it is the state broadcaster which has a professional responsibility to be impartial and unbiased when hosting a debate showing incredible bias I have an issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Dotsey wrote: »
    There's been no proof issued to suggest that MMcG has not provided truthful answers to the questions posed, he hasn't provided the answers the press want from him so they just keep attacking him hoping he'll crack when he won't.

    In 1994, MMG stated quite emphatically that he was never a member of the IRA. Now he claims he was, but left in 1974. He has a track record of lying about his onvolvement in that organisation.

    Apart from that, I find it odd that we are supposed to accept the word of a man who admits to having been involved at a high level with an organisation which murdered innocent civilians.

    Also, don't SF have their very own propoganda piece in An Phoblacht??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's a pity the Indo and the rest of the media wouldn't do what they are supposed to and find this 'proof' that everybody is so sure is out there.
    Too busy giving us their 'opinions'. :rolleyes:

    Has Martin asked his solicitors to take a case against the media witchhunt against him, if he can prove his innocence he'll make a fortune and shut the media up once and for all.


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