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Returning to Ireland with UK car

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Comments

  • #32
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    You can poay the VRT if you wish, but you shouldn't have to.

    Email them with the main points
    - in 2010 you never intended to settle in the ROI, only work to get the cash to go back to college
    - while working there, your personal ties remained in NI and you returned there regularly

    and ask for written clarification of your position and state that your phone conversation did not clarify why your normal residence in NI was not accepted. They cannot reject you out of hand without at least seeking some evidence from you, as I said they are just chancing their arm on the basis of what you have posted.


  • #33
    td2008
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭td2008



    Ok from my understanding your transfer of residence is July 2014.

    You are given 12 months to bring the car in so that's July 2015.

    You then must show that you have continuously lived in the UK for 6 months prior to July2014 and prove the car was in your ownership in that period, insurance etc. Then you need to prove living in the UK (this could be tricky as they'll want receipts of living expenses, bank statements ,rent etc)


    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/tax-relief-transfer-residence.html


  • #34
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    td2008 wrote: »
    Ok from my understanding your transfer of residence is July 2014.

    You are given 12 months to bring the car in so that's July 2015.

    You then must show that you have continuously lived in the UK for 6 months prior to July2014 and prove the car was in your ownership in that period, insurance etc. Then you need to prove living in the UK (this could be tricky as they'll want receipts of living expenses, bank statements ,rent etc)


    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/tax-relief-transfer-residence.html

    He may not have transferred residence at all and may be classed as normally resident outside the state. There are plenty of people from NI who live and work in the republic and who have been exempted by Revenue because their personal ties are still in NI.


  • #35
    td2008
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭td2008


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    He may not have transferred residence at all and may be classed as normally resident outside the state. There are plenty of people from NI who live and work in the republic and who have been exempted by Revenue because their personal ties are still in NI.


    Even if he has returned to the north every weekend from July 2014 he would be resident here

    Normal Residence means:
    • the place where you usually lived, for at least 185 days in the year ending on the date of transfer, because of occupational and personal ties
    • if you had no occupational ties, the place where you usually lived for at least 185 days in the year ending on the date of transfer, because of personal ties


  • #36
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    td2008 wrote: »
    Even if he has returned to the north every weekend from July 2014 he would be resident here

    Normal Residence means:
    • the place where you usually lived, for at least 185 days in the year ending on the date of transfer, because of occupational and personal ties
    • if you had no occupational ties, the place where you usually lived for at least 185 days in the year ending on the date of transfer, because of personal ties
    Why did you leave out the third and most relevant meaning?
    Normal Residence means:
    • the place where you usually lived, for at least 185 days in the year ending on the date of transfer, because of occupational and personal ties
    • if you had no occupational ties, the place where you usually lived for at least 185 days in the year ending on the date of transfer, because of personal ties
    • if your occupational ties were in a different country from your personal ties then the country of your personal ties is taken as your normal residence if you returned there regularly (i.e. for most of your non-working days).
    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/tax-relief-transfer-residence.html


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  • #37
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    It seems to me that Safdon can transfer residence now. But even if it was claimed that he/she had transferred residence in 2010 then it would come down to the date that he/she did this, as they only obstacle to the transfer of residence then was that the car was not owned for 6 months. If this ends up with VRT payable then it is a not satisfactory and any question of penalties is outrageous.


  • #38
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    ardmacha wrote: »
    It seems to me that Safdon can transfer residence now. But even if it was claimed that he/she had transferred residence in 2010 then it would come down to the date that he/she did this, as they only obstacle to the transfer of residence then was that the car was not owned for 6 months. If this ends up with VRT payable then it is a not satisfactory and any question of penalties is outrageous.

    From my reading of it there was (potentially) a transfer of residence in July 2014, but there was no application made within the required 7 days. From the information posted there would have been no issue availing of the exemption at that time (in my opinion).

    There is a 12 month period to bring the car in but the complication here is that I understand Customs/Revenue have now got involved having stopped the car, given that it has been in IE since July 2014? It isn't clear that the OP has had personal ties in NI since July 2014 and any time the car is in IE doesn't count towards the minimum six months for the exemption.

    I'm not replying to/commenting on your post directly, but the info here appears to be split over a couple of threads so it's difficult to be certain. Perhaps the Op can clarify!


  • #39
    saffdon
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭saffdon


    Hi Sunnysouth east,
    I'll try to summarise as I did in a different thread.
    I'm from Northern Ireland and I've owned my car since Jan 2010.
    Its always been fully taxed, registered, MOTed and insured to my address in the North which I still maintain.
    I've been back and forth working the south since then.
    Working from about Feb 2010 in a position i had believed to be temporary but I ended up staying with the job until Dec 2012 - the car would have been based in the North as used by mother also but on occasion would be in the South.
    I left in Dec 2012 to study in England. Back in the North for holidays/summer.
    Finished studying in June 2014 and decided to move back and try and find work back in the South from July 2014.
    And again the whole time the car was essentially sorted from northern ireland viewpoint

    When I asked revenue they said I dont qualify for the VRT exemption because I got a wage in the south about a month after a bought the car in 2010. Essentially saying thats when the car entered the state.
    Even though it was stored and operated in the North.
    They gave me the option of VRTing (about €935) or exporting.
    Leaving that argument of exemption aside. Which I understand is shakey at best.
    If I go to pay the VRT - which at this stage I'm willing to do just to have it done with- What date do I then say I enter the State - will I honestly be setting myself for penalties dating back to 2010!?!?
    Can I just state for the form the last time the car crossed the border or else whenever I spoke with customs/revenue?
    The car is probably worth €3.5k.
    VRT calculator says the VRT would be €950 or thereabouts.
    I've seen some references to the penalties being 0.02% of the VRT - if you take the 2010 date thats 36k!!!
    Even if you take out the time in between while studying ...that still amounts to say 15k!!
    Surely that is ludicrous.

    Penalties are my main concern at the moment....


  • #40
    saffdon
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭saffdon


    "evidence of vehicle storage outside the State where the invoice is dated more than 30 days earlier than the date the vehicle is presented for registration"

    Would tax and insurance to my address in the North been sufficient, along with say bank statements - sky bill etc?


  • #41
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    When I asked revenue they said I dont qualify for the VRT exemption because I got a wage in the south about a month after a bought the car in 2010. Essentially saying thats when the car entered the state.

    The question is not when the car entered the State, it is when you transferred your normal residence.
    You were non resident, you became resident, when did this occur?


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  • #42
    saffdon
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭saffdon


    Thats the problem - how exactly is this defined. This is the grey area.
    The person on the end of the phone stated that I essentially became a resident as soon as I had a wage (i.e paid tax).
    Perhaps when I moved back in July 2014 ???
    Now some posters on this thread and others have stated (correctly) that I had and still have personal ties to the North - then and now.
    I would argue that it would be when I was made permanent in my current job.
    But its all very complicated.
    I've always considered myself temporarily in the Republic until recently but I know my outlook wouldn't count.


  • #43
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    saffdon wrote: »
    Thats the problem - how exactly is this defined. This is the grey area.
    The person on the end of the phone stated that I essentially became a resident as soon as I had a wage (i.e paid tax).
    Perhaps when I moved back in July 2014 ???
    Now some posters on this thread and others have stated (correctly) that I had and still have personal ties to the North - then and now.
    I would argue that it would be when I was made permanent in my current job.
    But its all very complicated.
    I've always considered myself temporarily in the Republic until recently but I know my outlook wouldn't count.
    I know people from NI living, working and getting a wage and paying income tax in ROI and they have received written confirmation from Revenue of being exempted from VRT as Revenue have deemed them not to be Normally Resident here. The fact they own no property here (rent instead), their immediate family (spouse, kids, parents) are in NI and they return home regularly all helped prove their personal ties are still in NI.

    Perhaps there's something specific about your situation but it might be worth asking Revenue for a face-to-face meeting. Bring whatever supporting documentation you have.


  • #44
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    saffdon wrote: »
    Thats the problem - how exactly is this defined. This is the grey area.
    The person on the end of the phone stated that I essentially became a resident as soon as I had a wage (i.e paid tax).
    Perhaps when I moved back in July 2014 ???
    Now some posters on this thread and others have stated (correctly) that I had and still have personal ties to the North - then and now.
    I would argue that it would be when I was made permanent in my current job.
    But its all very complicated.
    I've always considered myself temporarily in the Republic until recently but I know my outlook wouldn't count.

    Yeah I don't think that advice is necessarily right (I have been given incorrect information by Revenue on the phone on another matter before). Residency for VRT purposes is defined by ties etc. (as posted above) which doesn't align completely with tax residency.

    If you still travel back to NI regularly and have family there etc. then you could potentially argue that you haven't yet transferred your residence and are only working temporarily in IE. I think you mentioned that you were stopped though, which will presumably mean that there will be extra focus on any information you do provide.

    I can't see any justification for Revenue charging any penalties back to 2010 in any case.


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