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The Fall (RTE1/BBC2) [** Spoilers **]

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Comments

  • #722
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    Not necessarily, i mean its not James Bond we're watching, I dont think there is any need to be involving such an out of the ordinary private life for gibson, i think it takes from the main storyline, the same way i dont think they need to be showing cantona as a corrupt wino who got up on gibson and is mad to try it again, it just takes from the main plot of the show which is spector and his killings, why cant they show the cops as decent people, why are they all having extra marital affairs and lezzing off, i mean, realistically, what pathologist contemplates lezzing off with the chief investigator of a case which involves the disappearance of the wife of a man you also happen to be hopping up on, its just silly...

    I think maybe you should be watching CSI or something like that if you just want straight forward stereotypes of cops. There's plenty of shows out there with cardboard cut out characters who solve murders in 45 minutes and then rescue a child from a burning building on their way home to their spouse who is the only person they've ever slept with in their whole life and they only ever have sex in bed under the sheets with their underwear still on.


  • #723
    Baby4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭Baby4


    This post has been deleted.


  • #724
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    Baby4 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yes good points there

    Can anyone remember was spector still in the closet when cantona was telling gibson about munroe and what he done and how he will be finished if it comes out? if so, spector could possibly blackmail cantona


  • #725
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    jezzer wrote: »
    Yes good points there

    Can anyone remember was spector still in the closet when cantona was telling gibson about munroe and what he done and how he will be finished if it comes out? if so, spector could possibly blackmail cantona
    Blackmail him for what though? He seems to be entirely useless and it's not as if he's going to be getting in Gibson's way any more now he's finished with the Munroes (I think).


  • #726
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #727
    Chimaera
    Registered Users Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭Chimaera


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I was thinking about this the other day. I'm interested in why he's in the line of work he's in. Is it an attempt to atone for the wrong he's done? When he was talking to the victim in hospital he was incredibly sensitive with her, he made it clear that what happened to her wasn't her fault. Now, was that him messing with her? Does he genuinely know what he does is wrong and wanted to make her feel better? Has he got a bit of a split personality going on?

    He appeared to be on her side, but a lot of what he said was leading her away from being of use to the police investigation. I've forgotten a bunch of the details, but there was a general vibe of doublespeak going on. His last suggestion to her was that she would be better off forgetting about the whole thing and moving on. While that would be good for her in one sense, it totally undermines the police case as the one surviving victim.

    To those complaining about the behaviour of the characters, I think you're being very premature and short sighted. A lot of that depiction is to portray them as real people. Real people have personal issues that get in the way of work. They have doubts and weaknesses. They have their kinks and fantasies. So while a good chunk of this might not be directly relevant to the plot, it makes them more relatable as characters.

    There's also the fact that we're three episodes into a six-episode series that's based around one complete story arc. It's not like CSI or Criminal Minds where they have to wrap up the storyline in 42 minutes. This is a 6-hour show, of which we've only seen 3. Lots of this stuff could be really important in the final roundup and it's just dumb to write it off at this point.

    Another poster alluded to this but it bears reinforcing: the entirety of tonight's episode happened over the space of about 12-14 hours. The previous few episodes have probably only spanned 2-3 days max. It's a pretty condensed timeline.

    I get the impression that Spector is self-employed (not unusual for therapists) so he'd be at liberty to choose his own schedule to some degree. Chances are he cleared his schedule when he left for Scotland, and the charity case is the only one he's taken up since he got back. He's probably got money saved somewhere for when work is quiet, and his wife's working too.


  • #728
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Chimaera wrote: »

    I get the impression that Spector is self-employed (not unusual for therapists) so he'd be at liberty to choose his own schedule to some degree. Chances are he cleared his schedule when he left for Scotland, and the charity case is the only one he's taken up since he got back. He's probably got money saved somewhere for when work is quiet, and his wife's working too.

    Again I'm having trouble remembering the first series as it's so long ago but I remember him getting into trouble at work last year. He did seem to have a job he went to everyday but I can't remember if he got fired from that or was just given a bit of a telling off.


  • #729
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Again I'm having trouble remembering the first series as it's so long ago but I remember him getting into trouble at work last year. He did seem to have a job he went to everyday but I can't remember if he got fired from that or was just given a bit of a telling off.

    He got in trouble for going to the house of the woman who was getting beaten up by the husband which is outside the rules of the therapists added to the fact that it was on a nationalist area, he just got a bit of a telling off not sacked, on what he works at, i think there is a bit of jeckel and hyde to him, it seems to be a specific type of woman he has disdain for, the promiscuous type which i', sure spawns from something which happened to him in the past.


  • #730
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Blackmail him for what though? He seems to be entirely useless and it's not as if he's going to be getting in Gibson's way any more now he's finished with the Munroes (I think).

    very true, all the cops seem useless, anyone explain why the writers brought the cantona/munroe thing into it and tied it in with gibson who just happened to have been up on cantona and the other crooked cop who was in with the munroes?

    in regard to depicting the characters as real, i'm pretty sure no cop in the met or psni has tried to lez off with a pathologist involved in a case you are investigating, and contrary to what we are led to believe i'm pretty sure cops in gibsons position dont sleep their way to the top, this is just ridiculous, really when you look at the overall picture, the show depicts women in a very very bad light, it shows the victims, including the missing woman rose as in to weird sex stuff, it shows women is powerful positions such as gibson and the indian professor as women who have no issue hopping up on married men and it also suggests that all women have lesbian tendencies.


  • #731
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    in regard to depicting the characters as real, i'm pretty sure no cop in the met or psni has tried to lez off with a pathologist involved in a case you are investigating, and contrary to what we are led to believe i'm pretty sure cops in gibsons position dont sleep their way to the top, this is just ridiculous, really when you look at the overall picture, the show depicts women in a very very bad light, it shows the victims, including the missing woman rose as in to weird sex stuff, it shows women is powerful positions such as gibson and the indian professor as women who have no issue hopping up on married men and it also suggests that all women have lesbian tendencies.

    The show has never once suggested that Gibson slept her way to the top.

    As for the rest of your comment, ridiculous. The victims may be into "weird sex stuff" but it's Paul that has the problem not them. The only woman I would say was painted in a bad light was the absolute moron on the train when Paul was on his way back to Belfast.

    The only thing your comment proves is that women are held to different standards than men which may well be what the show is trying to show with Gibson's behaviour, so well done you for proving them right.


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  • #732
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    The show has never once suggested that Gibson slept her way to the top.

    As for the rest of your comment, ridiculous. The victims may be into "weird sex stuff" but it's Paul that has the problem not them. The only woman I would say was painted in a bad light was the absolute moron on the train when Paul was on his way back to Belfast.

    The only thing your comment proves is that women are held to different standards than men which may well be what the show is trying to show with Gibson's behaviour, so well done you for proving them right.

    No, i think their portrayal of women is inaccurate, i think most women do not act like gibson or the indian professor, and yes there may be women who post stuff online but there are also women who dont do that and are also the victims of abuse and attack.

    The show completely states that gibson slept her way to the top, she was with cantona and there is constant reference to her sexuality, again un needed.

    I agree with you about the fair city bird on the train, what a fool, but i actually think well done to the show for highlighting that issue, its just not safe for women to be chatting to complete strangers, you just never know who you are talking to and never ever give out any personal detail.


  • #733
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    No, i think their portrayal of women is inaccurate, i think most women do not act like gibson or the indian professor, and yes there may be women who post stuff online but there are also women who dont do that and are also the victims of abuse and attack.

    The show completely states that gibson slept her way to the top, she was with cantona and there is constant reference to her sexuality, again un needed.

    How does her having a relationship with Cantona, who is a PSNI officer, God knows how many years ago, have any affect on her rise through the MET? Either you're overestimating the influence the PSNI has on the English police force or you're talking nonsense.

    There are plenty of women who are abused and attacked, you are correct, but this show isn't about a unit of the PSNI dealing with domestic violence or even violent crimes. It's about a specific investigation into a specific series of crimes. Clearly there are reasons Specter goes for these women, it may well be because of their online activities but again that's his issue not theirs.


  • #734
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    How does her having a relationship with Cantona, who is a PSNI officer, God knows how many years ago, have any affect on her rise through the MET? Either you're overestimating the influence the PSNI has on the English police force or you're talking nonsense.

    There are plenty of women who are abused and attacked, you are correct, but this show isn't about a unit of the PSNI dealing with domestic violence or even violent crimes. It's about a specific investigation into a specific series of crimes. Clearly there are reasons Specter goes for these women, it may well be because of their online activities but again that's his issue not theirs.

    yes completely his issue but as its shown it paints women in a bad light from that perspective but i guess thats what happens in reality in terms of how these women are targeted, i would hope that this show would serve as a warning to women of what is out there when they can be vunerable

    if gibson is with the met and happened to be with a high ranking psni officer in cantona, then it sugests thats what she is up to in the met, it inadvertently states that had a hand in her rise to the top because it also shows that she has ability but can be poor at her job


  • #735
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    jezzer wrote: »
    yes completely his issue but as its shown it paints women in a bad light from that perspective but i guess thats what happens in reality in terms of how these women are targeted, i would hope that this show would serve as a warning to women of what is out there when they can be vunerable

    if gibson is with the met and happened to be with a high ranking psni officer in cantona, then it sugests thats what she is up to in the met, it inadvertently states that had a hand in her rise to the top because it also shows that she has ability but can be poor at her job
    While I find the whole old flame thing to be a bit far fetched, I don't see how anything Gibson is doing in the sack is affecting how well (read badly) she is doing her job.
    If you ask me, not putting your firearm in the hotel room safe should have her off the force more than anything.


  • #736
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    While I find the whole old flame thing to be a bit far fetched, I don't see how anything Gibson is doing in the sack is affecting how well (read badly) she is doing her job.
    If you ask me, not putting your firearm in the hotel room safe should have her off the force more than anything.

    definately true, in reality spector would never have gained access to the room but hotel staff have access to the room and surely it would be misconduct to have a weapon lying around


  • #737
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    When Gibson and Cantona were involved he may not have been as high ranking as he is now. Even if he was the bloody head of the PSNI it's unlikely he'd have any say in how her career with the MET evolved.

    You are jumping to silly conclusions based on what appears to be outdated preconceptions about how women should behave.


  • #738
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    then why involve the fact that gibson was with cantona at all? why was she with the corrupt cop who was killed? why was she trying to bed the indian professor?


  • #739
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    then why involve the fact that gibson was with cantona at all? why was she with the corrupt cop who was killed? why was she trying to bed the indian professor?

    Why not?

    What did you want her to do? Show up with no history, have no scenes outside of the investigation, solve it in 5 minutes and then go home?


  • #740
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    her history didnt have to include her getting up on cantona and scenes outside the investigation didnt have to involve her trying to lez off with the pathologist


  • #741
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    her history didnt have to include her getting up on cantona and scenes outside the investigation didnt have to involve her trying to lez off with the pathologist

    Even your choice of words in your posts suggest I should not be having this argument with you. I'm out.


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  • #742
    Limerick91
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Limerick91


    What had Cantona so upset in the hotel room.

    Cant remember that detail from Season 1, something to do with the father, father in law of one of the victims Munroe?


  • #743
    Chimaera
    Registered Users Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭Chimaera


    Limerick91 wrote: »
    What had Cantona so upset in the hotel room.

    Cant remember that detail from Season 1, something to do with the father, father in law of one of the victims Munroe?

    It's picking up on the sideplot from season 1. There's a bunch of shenanigans going on with the policing board and the people sitting on it. This Munroe guy is part of it.


  • #744
    Chimaera
    Registered Users Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭Chimaera


    jezzer wrote: »
    then why involve the fact that gibson was with cantona at all? why was she with the corrupt cop who was killed? why was she trying to bed the indian professor?

    Maybe she wanted to have sex! Crazy thought, I know!

    Any of the people she's been involved with were consenting adults and could have said no. The pathologist did. Her affair with Burns was a long time ago: this time it was him trying to initiate something with Gibson and she shot him down emphatically.

    All I can see here is you trying to argue out of the hole you've dug for yourself and failing miserably.


  • #745
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Chimaera wrote: »
    Her affair with Burns was a long time ago: this time it was him trying to initiate something with Gibson and she shot him down emphatically.
    .

    Is that his name? Genuinely couldn't remember it.


  • #746
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Chimaera wrote: »
    It's picking up on the sideplot from season 1. There's a bunch of shenanigans going on with the policing board and the people sitting on it. This Munroe guy is part of it.

    What I remember from the first series was a few crooked cops were involved in some side action doing security or something for some big wigs that were up to no good. I think one of the guys was Munroe's son. He was the ex husband of one of the victims but he was entertaining clients with drugs and prostitutes.
    Munroe himself is high up on the Police Executive thing they have in NI and when his son was suspected of Alice's murder he pressured Burns to sort it and then when young Munroe was about to be connected to the drugs and prostitutes Burns tipped them off about it so he wouldn't be arrested.

    At least I think that's what happened.

    I may be thinking of a different show entirely.

    Also I'm not sure why Burns has allowed himself to be manipulated by Munroe.


  • #747
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    What I remember from the first series was a few crooked cops were involved in some side action doing security or something for some big wigs that were up to no good. I think one of the guys was Munroe's son. He was the ex husband of one of the victims but he was entertaining clients with drugs and prostitutes.
    Munroe himself is high up on the Police Executive thing they have in NI and when his son was suspected of Alice's murder he pressured Burns to sort it and then when young Munroe was about to be connected to the drugs and prostitutes Burns tipped them off about it so he wouldn't be arrested.

    At least I think that's what happened.

    I may be thinking of a different show entirely.

    Also I'm not sure why Burns has allowed himself to be manipulated by Munroe.

    Yes you have it in one, i have a feeling that munroe senior has something on cantona which made him tip off old munroe that young munroe was going to be arrested

    This coming sunday is episode 4, or the third quarter in american football terms which is the most important part, hope we get some answers we are looking for


  • #748
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    Chimaera wrote: »
    Maybe she wanted to have sex! Crazy thought, I know!

    Any of the people she's been involved with were consenting adults and could have said no. The pathologist did. Her affair with Burns was a long time ago: this time it was him trying to initiate something with Gibson and she shot him down emphatically.

    All I can see here is you trying to argue out of the hole you've dug for yourself and failing miserably.

    I think people are taking me up wrongly here, what hole are you talking about?


  • #749
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    While I find the whole old flame thing to be a bit far fetched, I don't see how anything Gibson is doing in the sack is affecting how well (read badly) she is doing her job.
    If you ask me, not putting your firearm in the hotel room safe should have her off the force more than anything.

    If word had gotten out that Gibson had a romantic relationship with the pathologist it would have corrupted any evidence that the pathologist provided to operation 'musicman'. Spector's defense could easily cast doubt on Reed's evidence because of that relationship. It was an incredibly stupid thing for Gibson to do.


  • #750
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    If word had gotten out that Gibson had a romantic relationship with the pathologist it would have corrupted any evidence that the pathologist provided to operation 'musicman'. Spector's defense could easily cast doubt on Reed's evidence because of that relationship. It was an incredibly stupid thing for Gibson to do.

    I'm not sure it would have corrupted it as it's scientific fact and it's all recorded as it's done. Although the public don't tend to care about things like facts and it could have ended up in the papers like before which wouldn't have been good for business.


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  • #751
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Although the public don't tend to care about things like facts and it could have ended up in the papers like before which wouldn't have been good for business.

    The evidence itself could still have been presented in court but it would hand Spector's defense an easy way of dismissing any of Reed's evidence. All they would have to do is plant a seed of doubt in the jury's mind about whether the pathologist could be trusted given that she has a romantic link to Gibson.


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