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kildeal.ie is it a joke

  • 25-10-2008 11:36am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭


    Is http://www.kildeal.ie/ legitimate, their own site even seems to be a template and is unfinished. Just noticed they designed the site stuff4sale.ie and can't believe people are actually paying this company money for the unfinished templated sites they are churning??!


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    I especially like the sound effects, and the way they used images for the lots of the text...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    It looks like they use templates for all their customer sites (nothing wrong with that in my opinion.)

    Fair play to them if they are making money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭Bluefrog


    Your link will probably help their SEO effort somewhat. I look forward to working for many of their disillusioned clients :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    On the left where is says "Register your website www.yourdomain .ie" ... is that spell checker underlining ? :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Solarpitch


    There web design portfolio looks like a screen shot of the "search templates" page of template monster.

    Dont agree with design companies using purchased templates like that. Makes it difficult to offer any extensive design and feature changes for the customer.

    :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    Wouldn't be a big lover of there sound effects but at €395 their obviously getting work so I'm sure there not worried.

    Each to their own


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,475 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Solarpitch wrote: »
    There web design portfolio looks like a screen shot of the "search templates" page of template monster.
    The Ecooffice.ie website is template 19908 - though it does have some code modifications.
    The strange thing is that the thumbnail on the Kildeal site is of the unmodified template!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Solarpitch


    :)

    Same with the Colemans of Sandyford ... they have the tumbnail before it was modified. It's a bike store template in the tumb.


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭donnaille


    Namesco wrote: »
    Wouldn't be a big lover of there sound effects but at €395 their obviously getting work so I'm sure there not worried.

    Each to their own

    Thats true, it's just their homepage seems so unfinished with broken links everywhere, I find it hard to believe how people go for this service.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    They run a business to make money not win web design awards.
    donnaille wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe how people go for this service.
    They obviously have done more market research than you and know the needs and wants of their target market and have created a company to meet the demand.
    Basic brochure site for €395 they will get a lot of customers.

    Business is about giving the customer what they want, not what you think they should have.
    You think you are a better web designer than then, I'll take your word for it, but do you think you make more money than them ?

    I think your original post attacking them was unprofessional, if they are no match for your superior skills why are you even bothered about them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭donnaille


    They run a business to make money not win web design awards.

    They obviously have done more market research than you and know the needs and wants of their target market and have created a company to meet the demand.
    Basic brochure site for €395 they will get a lot of customers.

    Business is about giving the customer what they want, not what you think they should have.
    You think you are a better web designer than then, I'll take your word for it, but do you think you make more money than them ?

    I think your original post attacking them was unprofessional, if they are no match for your superior skills why are you even bothered about them.

    Wasn't meant as an attack, merely my point of view and an opening of discussion, I don't mean to offend anyone.
    By your rules, should I take your post as an attack on me so.........


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,579 ✭✭✭Webmonkey


    Business is about giving the customer what they want, not what you think they should have.

    I could not disagree more - Business in General may be like this, but not in the world of software and web sites. Since when is the customer the expert. Since when is it the norm for a customer to understand what their own requirements are? Customers will present their objectives of a site but not in any great details. Its up to you to help them along and give them what you think best suits them. After all we are the ones working in this field and *should* know what they require.

    Software Engineering would suggest we treat customers as dumb and present them with ideas/prototypes or elaborations on what ideas they have - The typical website customer isn't technically minded. What do they know about Technologies, SEO, Accessibility, CMS, UI Design, Maintainability etc.

    Giving sites like this for that price may seem attractive to the customer initially but maintainability costs will be far beyond that in the longer run, rather than getting it correct at the begining.

    I think it is down right wrong for a company to be making money like that by tricking customers into thinking they getting a good deal. Almost all customers will think the templates were designed by that company, but instead they just templates baught and resold at a much larger cost. The work involved adding text to a template is hardly much work.

    Simple as this if KilDeal Creations is using templates as their designs, then they are not doing "Web Design" as they claim. They taking shortcuts and making money because the customer doesn't know any better. Their own site leaves a lot to be desired and that use of flash for the whole top section of their site isn't very professional at all. And sound effects are way 1990s.

    Their own site uses font tags, inline styles. The styles arn't even named correctly. Style 1 - style 8. Nothing seems to be aligned correctly. It is pure lazyness and disgusts me as I've put years of practice into design and building proper sites. Just because they are making money out of it, doesn't make it okay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    Webmonkey wrote: »
    Software Engineering would suggest we treat customers as dumb and present them with ideas/prototypes or elaborations on what ideas they have
    Can I ask where you learnt that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,579 ✭✭✭Webmonkey


    Dumb was a bit of a strong word to use but my point is that a lot of customers don't know their own requirements. They usually supply an ambigious set of requirements and its up to the developer then to go into the details of what they actually want.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    Webmonkey wrote: »
    I could not disagree more - Business in General may be like this, but not in the world of software and web sites. Since when is the customer the expert. Since when is it the norm for a customer to understand what their own requirements are? Customers will present their objectives of a site but not in any great details. Its up to you to help them along and give them what you think best suits them. After all we are the ones working in this field and *should* know what they require.

    Software Engineering would suggest we treat customers as dumb and present them with ideas/prototypes or elaborations on what ideas they have - The typical website customer isn't technically minded. What do they know about Technologies, SEO, Accessibility, CMS, UI Design, Maintainability etc.

    Giving sites like this for that price may seem attractive to the customer initially but maintainability costs will be far beyond that in the longer run, rather than getting it correct at the begining.

    I think it is down right wrong for a company to be making money like that by tricking customers into thinking they getting a good deal. Almost all customers will think the templates were designed by that company, but instead they just templates baught and resold at a much larger cost. The work involved adding text to a template is hardly much work.

    Simple as this if KilDeal Creations is using templates as their designs, then they are not doing "Web Design" as they claim. They taking shortcuts and making money because the customer doesn't know any better. Their own site leaves a lot to be desired and that use of flash for the whole top section of their site isn't very professional at all. And sound effects are way 1990s.

    Their own site uses font tags, inline styles. The styles arn't even named correctly. Style 1 - style 8. Nothing seems to be aligned correctly. It is pure lazyness and disgusts me as I've put years of practice into design and building proper sites. Just because they are making money out of it, doesn't make it okay.
    the above is why web developers make useless sales people, and very few will ever grow a sustainable, profitable company.
    You are so off track that I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, because you cannot see the big picture outside of your webdeveloper role.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,579 ✭✭✭Webmonkey


    the above is why web developers make useless sales people, and very few will ever grow a sustainable, profitable company.
    You are so off track that I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, because you cannot see the big picture outside of your webdeveloper role.
    There are plenty of developers on this very site that have a good attitude to web design/development with fantastic designs and make good money out of it. They can charge properly, unlike cowboys that do sites in the cheap claiming they can design develop when clearly they can't.

    You seem to be claiming that it isn't possible to make money from web development unless you take shortcuts and do things on the cheap. Well at least that is what I'm picking up from you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    Webmonkey wrote: »
    You seem to be claiming that it isn't possible to make money from web development unless you take shortcuts and do things on the cheap. Well at least that is what I'm picking up from you.
    Please show me where I said that ?

    CUSTOMER wants a basic brochure website at a good price, the company in this thread meets that need.

    CUSTOMER wants a very detailed website, with leading edge features etc. then you can charge a higher price.

    The customer always decides what they want:
    "I want it to appear high up on google" = seo
    "I want to be able to update it myself" = CMS
    "I want it to be easy to navigate and see info" = UI design
    "We will have about 200k user per month" = scalability
    Webmonkey wrote:
    Just because they are making money out of it, doesn't make it okay."
    I'll say it again, business is about making money not winning webdesign awards.
    Your problems lies in the fact that you don't understand what customers want, you assume they want the latest webdesign, when in fact most just want a basic online presence.

    You could be a better designer than the company, but who cares, if it's not what the customer wants. Take some time to understand what I am saying because I am right.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    You could be a better designer than the company, but who cares, if it's not what the customer wants. Take some time to understand what I am saying because I am right.

    The customer might want a cheap site but thats cos they dont realise the benefits of having a site designed properly to standards. Like anything else you get what you pay for, paying for a cheap templated site will only hurt the customer in the long run and have them forking out again for a proper site down the line when the cheap one they get doesnt rank well in google, doesnt work on all browsers and looks cheap and tacky. When the customer doesnt know any better its easy to dazzle them with a bit of flash and a nice cheap price tag. As a web developer its your job to help your customer,give them advice, and the benefits of having a well designed site thats done to standards not offer them a cheap templated website that will do them for now. To me that sounds like a bad salesman not the great one you say,more like a dodgey salesman making a quick buck of his customers ignorance to the whole area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    They run a business to make money not win web design awards.

    If they make money fair play to them. But from a personal point of view if all someone is doing is slight modifications to existing templates then I would be (a) wary of potential security issues and (b) wonder why in gods name would I be paying so much cash.
    Basic brochure site for €395 they will get a lot of customers.

    You get what you pay for. For a one person operation of tweaking templates that price is quite cheap.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    I only started posting because I feel it was a cowardly attack on the company
    OP
    kildeal.ie is it a joke
    Is http://www.kildeal.ie/ legitimate
    can't believe people are actually paying this company money
    I find it hard to believe how people go for this service.
    Axwell wrote: »
    To me that sounds like a bad salesman not the great one you say,more like a dodgey salesman making a quick buck of his customers ignorance to the whole area.
    Everyone here seems to be too focused on design issues, to be logical.
    So try this:
    Your selling cars, a customer comes in and says "I need a simple basic car to drive to the train station everyday".
    Would you sell them the 10 year old toyota for a grand, that does what they want, or would you tell them about all the features they could have if they went for the latest X, that costs 50k.
    Some customer just want a website with basic details to put on their cards/letter heads, that tells of their services.

    If you guys are so sure you know whats best, why don't you offer the next customer you get the option of a template, that you customise, at the appropiate rate compared to what you would charge for a bespoke site.
    See what they say ?
    You never know, you might scrap the time consuming, always needing to follow new trends, method of bespoke development and go directly into competition with the company in this thread, you would have the advantage of being superior developers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    Maybe €395 is for there basic website, give them €3,000 and they'll put a lot more work and design into a cutting edge website.

    A lot of people would like to drive Mercedes and BMW's but just can't and drive a cheaper car but can always upgrade later on.

    A lost leader is not a new marketing practice and I think it would be worse if they were charging a fortune for a basic template website.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    Everyone here seems to be too focused on design issues, to be logical.
    Frankly, I'm amazed at this too, being the Web Development & Design forum. Also, web presence is all about function and design. Some might be happier with more of one and less of the other, some may not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭uturnin6weeks


    Is it true that kildeal.ie is no longer offering services???? I have tried to call them loads and there is no one picking up??


    Think someone is a joker!!! ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    Here a website done by Kildeal and to me it looks very well

    http://stdominicsballyfermot.com/site/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=30

    (Its Joomla CMS)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    The way I see it is this:
    Many small companies and startup businesses cannot justify a 2,000-3,000 euro website when they don't full understand either how to make money using it nor have the funds to be able to support it. They dont even see the point of the website in the first place.

    That is why I see the cheap 300-500 static websites are actually being helpful in that they get a business on the internet. After that it will get the business thinking about what they really want from the website including how they want it to look and what they want it to do - and especially they will see the importance of the website.

    Its getting one foot inside the internet door - a place they have never been before - instead of leaping two feet first into something which you neither know anything about nor know what you want.

    I see it as being akin to getting crappy simple posters made first for your business - just to get it out there, then when you can afford it you can create the professional company image - logo, colours, proper website and posters etc. This is better than spending 2/3k on a website that doesnt do what you afterwards realise you want it to do.

    A business should have at least a one page website with contact details and basic information about who they are and what they offer - that would cost sweet FA. That is actually a good start. It means that people can now find your contact details on the internet.

    A friend of mine who runs a satellite/aerial/tv installation business recently got a really crappy template and put it on the internet (he put it together himself). It did not even have a logo or business name in the header of the page - I must say it looks awful. He got about 15 jobs in the first 2-3 months from it. It had cost him about 50 euro in total. Now he is starting to think how can the website be improved and is actively figuring out what he needs from his website, what he wants on the website so now when he gets a professional designer that will cost him 2,000+ euros he knows what he wants and won't be wasting his money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Solarpitch


    Axwell wrote: »
    The customer might want a cheap site but thats cos they dont realise the benefits of having a site designed properly to standards. Like anything else you get what you pay for, paying for a cheap templated site will only hurt the customer in the long run and have them forking out again for a proper site down the line when the cheap one they get doesnt rank well in google, doesnt work on all browsers and looks cheap and tacky.

    I agree. A guy came to me before looking for an e commerce solution and showed me what a previous company was working on before he gave up on them. He gave up on them because he was asking for design and feature changes and the company wasn't able to deliver... why?

    .. the company simply downloaded the free e commerce solution Zen Cart, changed the logo and uploaded it to his server. They were trying to charge him upwards of €3, 500 for the development.

    The guy hadn't clue about websites or development. I felt the comapny was taking advantage of this by dishing out a quick fix solution for him that would hurt him in the long run!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,579 ✭✭✭Webmonkey


    Namesco wrote: »
    Here a website done by Kildeal and to me it looks very well

    http://stdominicsballyfermot.com/site/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=30

    (Its Joomla CMS)
    To be fair that looks nice alright.

    However few things that would bug me like that 'Temp' link, XHTML validator link when it doesn't validate and the link to their own site below is incorrect.

    Nice design though.

    Edit

    http://template.joomlart.com/ja_olyra/ Ah well :)


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    He got about 15 jobs in the first 2-3 months from it. It had cost him about 50 euro in total.

    Thats all well in good if you are getting traffic and sales from your crap website and then you decide to get a better one, but if the crap website isnt getting you any traffic or sales then it is a waste of money. A good designer/developer would sit down with the person and discuss their needs and point out whats available to them and the features they could have and then design a site for them that would do everything they want. Also depending on what the site is about a badly done site will never even be found doing a google search.

    As regards the car analogy above, thats all well and good too but if the banger you got for 1000 is causing problems every week needing parts replaced then it becomes a waste of money as its not doing the task it was bought for,similar to a badly done website, you might not want a bmw or a merc but if you pay that little extra to the 1000 you could have something reliable that wont ever give you hassle. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and its better to pay that little bit extra and get something worth while than waste money on the cheap option.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭uturnin6weeks


    What do you do if Kildeal.ie is hosting your site on an Indian server in India? How can you get ftp codes to change it to a Irish hosting site. Can't make contact with Kildeal people???


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    If his customers are happy with what he provides, I don't see the problem. And I think it's great he is not charging a fortune for his service.

    Too many people are obsessed with original design and high prices. That's not what most customers want. And most website users couldn't give a damn nor will even know what a template is.


This discussion has been closed.
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