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When did you realise you were a non believer

2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,331 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Shrap wrote: »
    When I knew what a believer was.

    That pretty much sums it up for me too. I never became an "unbeliever" or discovered I was one..... so much as I reached an age where it hit me "Hang on people actually believe this stuff???"

    There was a time in my life too when I found out that some people who watch things like Eastenders and Coronation Street believe them to be real people too. Some actors playing "bad" characters even report stories of fans of the show coming up to them admonishing them for their behavior or life choices as if they were actually the people from the show. I remember reading one story of a character going through hard times being approached by a woman preferring money at her and wishing her well in her time of trouble.

    That latter discovery, similar to the discovery people actually believe the god nonsense, was equally surprising and baffling. A kind of deep pit of the stomach dismay that people (not to mention how many people) are unable to look at something and realize there is simply no reason to think it true.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭nc19


    When I heard my first bible story.

    How anyone get take these stories seriously is beyond me. Noahs Ark ffs......water into wine pfft....immaculate conception my arse! And before any says the stories are not to be taken literally if you dont take whats written in the book as true whats the feckin point in any of it?

    We will see XMen type mutants before we see any tangible proof of a God


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,101 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    LazyClouds wrote: »
    Now I just pray to Bruce. :)

    Bruce Almighty. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    I used to pray to Bertie Ahern for less tax and allowances....nuff said!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    LazyClouds wrote: »
    I was a teenager, 14 or 15. I was in bed having woken up in the middle of the night because of a nightmare. To stop being so afraid I used to pray because God would make everything ok again. I was about to pray when suddenly I thought of Bruce Willis for no reason. I imagined McClane laughing and mocking my demons and I felt so much better. Then, as I was falling back to sleep I realised Bruce did what God was supposed to do and he actually did it better.

    I the morning it became painfully clear I'd been imagining God vanquishing my demons my whole life. Now I just pray to Bruce. :)

    And thus was born the church of DieHardism. Wait until the schism, the DieHarders will be a right pain.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    Catholicism on it's own is enough to put anyone off.

    Exactly. You often hear from religious people that if only we would discover the true form of religion (ie theirs) then we would be saved. The problem is, it wasn't the way catholicism was taught to me, it was catholicism itself, in all its bizarre, medieval, hypocritical essence, that put me off.

    It isn't because I don't really know true religion that I don't believe, it is precisely because I know what religion is all about that I am an atheist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    fisgon wrote: »
    Exactly. You often hear from religious people that if only we would discover the true form of religion (ie theirs) then we would be saved. The problem is, it wasn't the way catholicism was taught to me, it was catholicism itself, in all its bizarre, medieval, hypocritical essence, that put me off.

    It isn't because I don't really know true religion that I don't believe, it is precisely because I know what religion is all about that I am an atheist.

    The fact the New Testament is so vague about the foundation of a church in Christ name is a sure fire give away!

    Finding a verse or 2 then transforming it into the basis of a Major Religious movement is akin to finding a dirty old boot in a bog and then claiming the Roman empire had controlled all of Ireland!


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    My story differs a little from most of the ones posted so far.
    I didn't grow up in Ireland, but in the Catholic heartlands of Southern Germany.
    Similar to here, you were just born Catholic, and that was that, no questions allowed.

    But I was kind of lucky, the Catholics I met in my formative years were very, VERY different from the fearful, dour variety.
    The man who baptised me was a good friend of my parents, a Fransiscan friar with the loudest and heartiest laugh ever. He called himself "God's wild boar", and had an immense sense of humour. But he would regularly be in trouble with his superiors for being - well, too human. He told me once that he saw it as his duty to follow his conscience rather than doctrine.

    The primary school I went to was secular, but my secondary school was run by Mary Ward nuns (sub sections of Jesuits, I think). And they were similar little revolutionaries. We had extensive sex education, they made sure all the girls in their care knew damn well how to protect themselves from STIs (most importantly from AIDS, the massive scare at the time) and unwanted pregnancies. I've never once heard any of them even suggesting that one should wait until marriage. Their message was to find a loving relationship, and to take things at your own pace. Don't let anyone pressure you, but if you want to have sex, here's how you do it safely.
    They never thought much of having to wear the veil, either. About half of them never did, many of them had ditched habits in favour of plain skirts and blouses anyway. Years before the Vatican declared that this could possibly be allowed.
    They were also very strong convinced environmentalists, setting up a recycling co-op in the school, protesting plans for new nuclear power stations, teaching us how to safe water, you name it.
    They were happy enough to accept same-sex relationships between older students, no judgment, just being happy for the girls in question.


    I have learned a lot from them, and I am truly grateful. The lessons of respect, of critical thinking, of picking your fights well in life, of self-awareness have always served me well.
    On the other hand, the very fact that I admired all this so much as it tied in to totally with my own morals and ethics that I didn't want to question if the biblical background would actually hold up to scrutiny.

    That happened much later, and funnily enough on another online forum. I was discussing religion trying to take what I thought was a sensible kind-of-in-the-middle position, and as the discussion progressed the question to me became ever clearer - how could I call myself Christian, let alone Catholic, if I though the whole thing was effectively a made-up collection of moral tales without any of the supernatural stuff being actually real?

    And that's when it clicked - I had been engaging in double-think for quite some time without realising. It was time I admitted it. I was actually an atheist.


    Edit : Goodness, sorry about the length of this!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Shenshen wrote: »
    He told me once that he saw it as his duty to follow his conscience rather than doctrine.
    Catechism of the Catholic Church, Rule 1800:

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm

    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭Daemonic


    Bit of a caveat to that in 1801 though, follow your conscience at all times, but you can still be wrong :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭equivariant


    I don't think that I really ever took the god thing that seriously but if I was to pick one moment that made me self identify as an atheist, it would be
    when my dad died (many years ago now). Lots of my extended family were giving it the usual 'he's in a better place' and I just was thinking to myself "really?".

    I also remember that a priest who had been a good friend of my dad scoffed at my lack of belief in the afterlife ('you'll grow out of that' or some similar condescending claptrap - I was in my twenties). I lost a lot of respect for him then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,939 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    nc19 wrote: »
    When I heard my first bible story.

    How anyone get take these stories seriously is beyond me. Noahs Ark ffs......water into wine pfft....immaculate conception my arse! And before any says the stories are not to be taken literally if you dont take whats written in the book as true whats the feckin point in any of it?

    We will see XMen type mutants before we see any tangible proof of a God

    Just to nit-pick for a minute, the immaculate conception isn't in the bible, its something that was invented in the (I think) 19th C to account for some deep theosophical problem. Which kind of says it all really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    When ye told your parents you were atheists, did some of you get the standard "as long you're in this house, you'll go to mass" speech?


  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    branie2 wrote: »
    When ye told your parents you were atheists, did some of you get the standard "as long you're in this house, you'll go to mass" speech?

    Nope, surprisingly enough. My mum's attitude was always that the church considered you old enough to make your own decisions after Confirmation, so 11 year old me had a choice in the matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    branie2 wrote: »
    When ye told your parents you were atheists, did some of you get the standard "as long you're in this house, you'll go to mass" speech?

    No. My parents are typical a la carte Catholics so they didn't bother going apart from Christmas mass. They were never insistent on it when we were younger.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    branie2 wrote: »
    When ye told your parents you were atheists, did some of you get the standard "as long you're in this house, you'll go to mass" speech?

    No, but I did get a "don't be fidgeting and making a fool of us at funerals" speech, which was the same as the "don't be figeting and making a fool of us at mass" speeches I got as a child.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,813 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    No, in fact my family rarely goes to Mass, and my Dad's pretty much a nontheist. We only enter Catholic churches for social occasions such as weddings and funerals.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    branie2 wrote: »
    When ye told your parents you were atheists, did some of you get the standard "as long you're in this house, you'll go to mass" speech?

    No, the only reaction I got from her was "Don't tell your grandparents, they won't understand and it'll only upset them".


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Sclosages


    In the past few months! :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭Uncle Ruckus


    I think I always knew deep down. Reading the God Delusion pretty much cemented it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Long time ago now: read a lot about religion and religions. Put that with growing knowledge ie experiential knowledge of people and people in society and eventually the whole thing just fell away. Incredibly liberating to know that I had seen through the whole load of tosh. Having a knowledge of theology helped enormously to understand the stuff from within and once you do that you see it clearly. I'm amazed, truly amazed, at people of my advanced years who still believe or say they do.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Pocoyo


    Guys i will never understand the amount of these threads,I NEVER REMEMBER BELIEVING AND I DONT CARE!

    You must really feel hurt and let down by the fact that you no longer believe in god ffs!!!

    Santa aint real either...get over it!!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Sclosages


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    Guys i will never understand the amount of these threads,I NEVER REMEMBER BELIEVING AND I DONT CARE!

    You must really feel hurt and let down by the fact that you no longer believe in god ffs!!!

    Santa aint real either...get over it!!!

    WELL DON'T OPEN THE GOD-DAMNED THREADS THEN!!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Pocoyo


    Sclosages wrote: »
    WELL DON'T OPEN THE GOD-DAMNED THREADS THEN!!!

    But do you feel hurt and let down? With the thousands of posts on this issue i have never heard anyone say that they were and if not what do you get out of posting about the subject?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Sclosages


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    But do you feel hurt and let down? With the thousands of posts on this issue i have never heard anyone say that they were and if not what do you get out of posting about the subject?

    No. I feel lightened. Rather than enlightened.
    Same as I get from posting about anything. Should I be getting something out of my posts?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Pocoyo


    Sclosages wrote: »
    No. I feel lightened. Rather than enlightened.
    Same as I get from posting about anything. Should I be getting something out of my posts?

    Of course why else would you post?


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭The Domonator


    Looking back, I think it began at puberty. I never really subscribed to notion that a god exists so I never took religion seriously. But I began reading books (including the bible) and they opened my eyes. I'm never afraid to say to people that I'm an Atheist but I keep it to myself (mostly). I only turn on Anti-Theist mode when someone tries to lecture me on god and religion in general.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Yogosan


    I was around four. I remember myself and my, at the time, 5 year old brother snook down stairs and found my parents and older sibling wrapping the presents. I guess we always had a suspicion he wasn't real, otherwise we wouldn't have snook down stairs to catch him in the act.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭downonthefarm


    When the reports on the abuse came out and all the cover ups that came with it.
    I thought how can there be a supreme being that we are told to follow without question.
    I have come to the realisation that the religions were just a man made thing to keep people in check


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    But do you feel hurt and let down? With the thousands of posts on this issue i have never heard anyone say that they were and if not what do you get out of posting about the subject?

    Yes in a sense. Those of us who grew up religious were being told, in most cases, left right and center that this one religion is true, here are the facts about it, Jesus died for your sins, Abraham was tested by God etc etc.
    This was done by people close to us, parents, teachers, relatives, friends. So when we eventually left the religion, we felt let down by the people peddling these falsehoods. There they were, for years at a time, teaching us something as if it were true that had no good evidence.


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