Over 5 euro for a pint in Ireland How do we Stop this

Rezident · 03-04-2012 11:49pm

They charge it because so many people pay it. Apart from the general price inelasticity of demand with drugs in general, there are pubs, even in Dublin city centre, e.g. O'Reilly's under tara St. that charge around €3.60 a pint. Go there.

Statistician · 04-04-2012 12:40am

ninja900 wrote: »

So they told you the beer was as strong as wine, and you believed them??

Drinking 3 pints (~1.5L) of 4-5% beer in a couple of hours is no big deal, drink 2 bottles (~1.5L) of 12% wine per person in the same time and it'll be a memorable evening but probably not for the right reasons.

It's not the same measurement we use here in Ireland.
I remember seeing this two somewhere foreign (12%). It is a different measurement.

You'd know by drinking it that it's not 12%ABV.

This is what I was thinking here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_(alcoholic_beverage):

By considering the original gravity, the brewer or vintner obtains an indication as to the probable ultimate alcoholic content of his product. The OE is often referred to as the "size" of the beer and is, in Europe, often printed on the label as Stammwürze or sometimes just as a percent. In the Czech Republic, for example, they speak of "10 degree beers", "12 degree beers" which refers to the gravity in Plato of the wort before the fermentation.

Then again, maybe it was really strong beer.

Geuze · 04-04-2012 11:54am

ninja900 wrote: »

Ironically, that would probably be regarded as cartel-like behaviour.

It'd never work anyway, who wants to drink in a pub with no Guinness? Apart from a small number of microbrewery pubs it'd never work.

Spar / Londis, etc. are buying groups, and use their combined power to drive down costs.

There would still be Guinness, but the pub would have paid less.

JD Wetherspoon is an example.

Hotblack Desiato · 04-04-2012 9:06pm

Geuze wrote: »

Spar / Londis, etc. are buying groups, and use their combined power to drive down costs.

There would still be Guinness, but the pub would have paid less.

Guinness know that very few pubs in this country could survive without their product.
Why would they cut prices?

JD Wetherspoon is an example.

They don't operate here and the huge dominance of Diageo is probably one of the main reasons. You don't have a single product in the UK that compares with Guinness here. Lagers are by and large interchangeable, but try telling that to a stout drinker.

StudentDad · 05-04-2012 1:15pm

The response of the Vintners here to the fact that people won't buy their booze irritates the hell out of me. If I was running a shop in my local town and people were not buying my stuff and I went running to govt. screaming 'waaaaaaaa people are buying my stuff cheaper elsewhere' I know what response I'd get!

Similarly this notion that the govt. will 'put a floor' under the price of drink from off licences is equally irritating. As far as I'm concerned either the vintners can compete in the market or they can't. If they can't, tough ****!

SD

StudentDad · 05-04-2012 1:21pm

sandin wrote: »

Ever looked at the cost of running a pub. 40% mark up and you wouldn't last a week.

Weatherspoons looked at Ireland many times, but couldn't see any value. Their policy of crap service and second class food offerings just wouldn't work here.

Crap service and second class food offerings? Really? When I'm in the North I look forward to finding a Wetherspoons because it's the polar opposite of what you describe.

They are friendly, accomodating, welcoming of families. There are some pubs around where I live that if I showed up at lunch time with my children looking for lunch I'd be made feel very unwelcome. Pubs south of the border only seem to offer - overpriced booze on tap etc - and if you want anything beyond that you can piss off for yourself. The idea of bringing a child into a pub south of the border doesn't bear thinking about.

Not only that, they have a wider selection of beers than any pub I've ever seen south of the border.

SD

maximoose · 05-04-2012 1:39pm

StudentDad wrote: »

Crap service and second class food offerings? Really? When I'm in the North I look forward to finding a Wetherspoons because it's the polar opposite of what you describe.

They are friendly, accomodating, welcoming of families. There are some pubs around where I live that if I showed up at lunch time with my children looking for lunch I'd be made feel very unwelcome. Pubs south of the border only seem to offer - overpriced booze on tap etc - and if you want anything beyond that you can piss off for yourself. The idea of bringing a child into a pub south of the border doesn't bear thinking about.

Not only that, they have a wider selection of beers than any pub I've ever seen south of the border.

SD

Have to agree. I've been in many a Spoon's in Belfast, Edinburgh, Liverpool, London, Leeds and all over the UK really... most of the time I'm travelling with my veggie girlfriend and we look out for them as we know they do a good vegetarian breakfast. I've never had one complaint about the quality of the service, food, beer, or prices - I think they put a lot of Irish pubs to shame really.

Things like the beer and a burger and curry club offers are great value, and the drinks are FAR from overpriced.

The clientele in my hometown Wetherspoons in Carrickfergus is offputting though :pac:

sandin · 05-04-2012 2:35pm

StudentDad wrote: »

Crap service and second class food offerings? Really? When I'm in the North I look forward to finding a Wetherspoons because it's the polar opposite of what you describe.

They are friendly, accomodating, welcoming of families. There are some pubs around where I live that if I showed up at lunch time with my children looking for lunch I'd be made feel very unwelcome. Pubs south of the border only seem to offer - overpriced booze on tap etc - and if you want anything beyond that you can piss off for yourself. The idea of bringing a child into a pub south of the border doesn't bear thinking about.

Not only that, they have a wider selection of beers than any pub I've ever seen south of the border.

SD

wetherspoons offer poor quality food - I see their menu every month or so in the UK when I am brought to lunch there. (no say in the matter)

Its cheap because you order at the bar, pay before the food is service and its dumped on your table.
If you want tomato sauce you are pointed where to get it.
The food has no provenence (I asked where the beef came from and was told it came from a cow) and the portion size is always on the small size.

Their beer prices are not cheap - reasonable value, yes, but not cheap. (£3.35 for pint carling - its €4 in my local, which is same price), bottled beers are £3.95 albeit for a 500ml bottle af decent ale, but same bottle is €5 in Hartes in Kildare Town (same price).

There may be regional variances, but you can hardly call Coventry a salubrious part of the UK.

They looked at moving into Ireland (2004 and again in 2010) )and walked away because their business model would not suit the market.

StudentDad · 05-04-2012 2:42pm

sandin wrote: »

wetherspoons offer poor quality food - I see their menu every month or so in the UK when I am brought to lunch there. (no say in the matter)

Its cheap because you order at the bar, pay before the food is service and its dumped on your table.
If you want tomato sauce you are pointed where to get it.
The food has no provenence (I asked where the beef came from and was told it came from a cow) and the portion size is always on the small size.

Their beer prices are not cheap - reasonable value, yes, but not cheap. (£3.35 for pint carling - its €4 in my local, which is same price), bottled beers are £3.95 albeit for a 500ml bottle af decent ale, but same bottle is €5 in Hartes in Kildare Town (same price).

There may be regional variances, but you can hardly call Coventry a salubrious part of the UK.

They looked at moving into Ireland (2004 and again in 2010) )and walked away because their business model would not suit the market.

PMSL

Larianne · 05-04-2012 2:50pm

fguihen wrote: »

Boycotted the hairy lemon when they started charging 5.70 for pints. Same with Bruxelles.
O'Reillys under Tara St Station have 3.50 pints all the time, its not a promotion or anything.

They charge €3.20 a pint in O'Reillys (unless its gone up lately?). MacTurcaills on Townsend Street have pints for €3.50 and Cassidy's on Westmoreland Street do some pints for €3.50.

I've noticed The Lotts Bar on Liffey Street are doing drink promotions during football games - €3.00 pints. If you 'like' a lot of these places on Facebook, you can find out when they're having 'deals' on.

The prices will stay up as long as people keep paying the prices.

bluntyeyedfool · 05-04-2012 2:54pm

ChubbyHubby wrote: »

Stop abusing alcoholic drinks in order to have a good time.

whoa there, wait....what?

maximoose · 05-04-2012 2:55pm

sandin wrote: »

Its cheap because you order at the bar, pay before the food is service and its dumped on your table.
If you want tomato sauce you are pointed where to get it.

It's a pub, serving basic pub grub at cheap prices - not a restaurant. That's why their set up works. If you want food, go to the bar and order it in your own time..if not, great! Sit down and have a drink. No faffing about with waiters, suit yourself. If you want better service, tell whoever is dining you to not be so stingy

franc 91 · 05-04-2012 3:14pm

In the Irish pubs in and around Paris the usual price for a pint of Guinness is eight euros or more, which I find quite expensive. Is the Guinness any different to what you'd get in Ireland? I don't know. I remember Carr's being very proud of the smooth pint they served me.

Rumplestilskin · 06-04-2012 1:47pm

Publicans deserve everything they get, greedy shower of ... Living in rural Ireland and paying 4.30 for a pint of lager is just insanity. Went for a few a months ago in a small town on a Fri night, the four pubs we went to were completely empty and good enough for them paying 5 euro for a bottle of Guinness , incidentally that was the last time I was out.

Lidl for the best and cheapest beer. Publicans, cop on or go broke!

sandin · 09-04-2012 1:17pm

The stupidy spouted by many on this thread is amazing.

Comparing a bottle of beer bought from a supermaket with a drink in apub? - Utter ridiculous

Maybe compare a microwave burger from the same supermarket with McDonalds - oh no, mcdonalds aren't the fashion to knock.

I suppose all the eejits here are assuming the following

Pubs don't pay an annual licance fee
Pubs don't pay staff
Pubs get free electricity and free oil
Pubs don't pay rent
Pubs don't pay rates
Pubs don't pay water charges
Pubs don't even pay for the glasses the drink is poured into.

Wake up to yourselves and your stupidity. The price of drinks in pubs here in Ireland are quite similar to those charged in pubs in the UK, France, Germany, USA and most other countries.

You don't compare a rural UK pub to a centre city pub. Most London pubs charge £4 average for pints with zero service, most parisian pubs charge €7 fo a pint with zero service, most Franfurt pubs charge €4 for a 400ml glass of beer with basic service.

Once you go after midnight or into clubs, prices in ALL cities rise substantially. In London, most clubs charge £5 a bottle.

Maybe when below cost selling of alcohol is finally banned, the kids here will realise the value of a decent pint in a decent pub.

btw - here's the average price for pub drinks in London from DesignMyNight.com website. note spirits are 25ml in size not 37.5ml as you receive in an Irish pub.

"Pint of Lager£3.80 Pint of Ale £3.60 Bottle of Lager£3.75 Bottle of Cider£4.00 Cocktail No Price Spirit and Mixer £5.50 Large Glass of Wine£4.20 Bottle of House Wine£16.00"

Michael Weston · 09-04-2012 2:40pm

I work for a wholesaler and we sell 1lt Smirnoff to a pub/club at €188.00 a case. Lets do the sums on that, €188.00+Vat =€231.34, twelve units per case €19.27 per unit, twenty seven shots per unit .71c per shot. So there is the baseline cost per measure, this premises retails this product at €5.70 per shot in the club. At the end of the day when the case is sold and the original price inc Vat is subtracted the publican has made a profit of €1615.46 on the case. Now I know there are rates, bar extensions, staff, power, public liabilty and other costs to be paid but its still nice work if you can get it.. Its probably also worth noting that out of the original cost of the case before VAT €140.00 goes to the government on excise so its fairly obvious who the big winner is in all of this and I am sure Enda would agree.

sandin · 09-04-2012 8:19pm

Michael Weston wrote: »

I work for a wholesaler and we sell 1lt Smirnoff to a pub/club at €188.00 a case. Lets do the sums on that, €188.00+Vat =€231.34, twelve units per case €19.27 per unit, twenty seven shots per unit .71c per shot. So there is the baseline cost per measure, this premises retails this product at €5.70 per shot in the club. At the end of the day when the case is sold and the original price inc Vat is subtracted the publican has made a profit of €1615.46 on the case. Now I know there are rates, bar extensions, staff, power, public liabilty and other costs to be paid but its still nice work if you can get it.. Its probably also worth noting that out of the original cost of the case before VAT €140.00 goes to the government on excise so its fairly obvious who the big winner is in all of this and I am sure Enda would agree.

Night club gets 4.63 per shot in this scenario not 5.70 as the 5.70 includes vat at 23%.
A good night club is busy on Fridays and Saturdays for about 3-4 hours. Some may also open on Thursday and sundays, but the number of patrons would be minimal.

Unfortunately, the landlord, the rates office, don't care if its open for 2 minutes a week or 24/7 every week, rent and rates will stay the same.

In a nightclub you are paying for the experience, the music, the atmosphere, the fit out. The beverage is the way to charge for all this. The exact same is for a restaurant, the cost of the raw food should be no more than 20% of the plate selling price, otherwise you will be out of business. This is the average across the board, across countries, across continents.

Some nightclubs make nice money as does Microsoft, Apple computers and Intel. Profit is good, it means jobs, it means investment. No profit means no nightclubs, no pubs.

Unfortunately due to the begrudgery nature of Irish people who ahte seeing someone doing well, the profits are gone from the trade and there are closures everywhere.

Want to see how easy it is t make a profit in the pub / nightclub game - check your local estate agent - he has plenty for sale!

Colonel Sanders · 09-04-2012 10:54pm

sandin wrote: »

Unfortunately due to the begrudgery nature of Irish people who ahte seeing someone doing well, the profits are gone from the trade and there are closures everywhere.

what??

People have less cash and a night out is expensive. Hence less nights out. A lot of people will look at a taxi to and from the pub, possible baby sitting costs (none of which are anything to do with the publican needless to say) and have cut back

Of course there's a premium for drinking in a pub. Unfortunately if the prices being charged by most publicans (especially in Dublin) are what they need to make a reasonable margin then you have a product that I am not willing to pay for on a regular basis

I'm not blaming the publican, just saying that the end result is a product with a price attached to it that I am unwilling to pay

Bottom line, would I pay more to drink in a pub than at home? Of course. Do I enjoy a night in a decent local more than a few bottles at home? Of course. Weighing up the cost of a night in or a night out do I feel the extra I get out of it is worth the extra cost? Tbh no, especially where most places only serve stout and the usual muck like Carlsberg, Heineken etc on tap (may well be a case that there's little or no demand but still impacts my choice)

StudentDad · 09-04-2012 10:57pm

So running a pub has overheads that need paying? So does every business!

At the end of the day it is a pubs customers that keep it going and if the customers feel they are being screwed they won't pay no matter how many 'justifications' are trotted out!

The way I see it, nobody has a god given right to operate in the market - you either give the customer what he wants or you get out of that business!

Running to govt. and whining because people are electing to buy alcohol elsewhere and not in a pub smacks of desperation.

Nobody is duty bound to do their drinking or socialising at the pub.

SD

sandin · 10-04-2012 8:09am

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

what??

People have less cash and a night out is expensive. Hence less nights out. A lot of people will look at a taxi to and from the pub, possible baby sitting costs (none of which are anything to do with the publican needless to say) and have cut back

Of course there's a premium for drinking in a pub. Unfortunately if the prices being charged by most publicans (especially in Dublin) are what they need to make a reasonable margin then you have a product that I am not willing to pay for on a regular basis

I'm not blaming the publican, just saying that the end result is a product with a price attached to it that I am unwilling to pay

Bottom line, would I pay more to drink in a pub than at home? Of course. Do I enjoy a night in a decent local more than a few bottles at home? Of course. Weighing up the cost of a night in or a night out do I feel the extra I get out of it is worth the extra cost? Tbh no, especially where most places only serve stout and the usual muck like Carlsberg, Heineken etc on tap (may well be a case that there's little or no demand but still impacts my choice)

That's a proper and reasonable reason for not going out and that's part and parcel of the recession.

But you have eejits here who think a pub should sell drink at the same price as tesco and have no understanding whatsoever of the costs involved - friends of mine used to have a pub in a decent size town, but they closed it as they could not get any type of wage form it and got sick of the beow cost selling in supermarkets and yobbos bringing in naggins of vodka.

If you dropped in at 11pm on a saturday, you'd think they were doing great, but try again at 11pm on a Wednesday and it was a different story - but the heat had to be on, the refridgeration had to be on, the lights had to be on. On a good wednesday there was €300 in the till (€240 ex vat) - that wouldn't even pay a wage for a night!

So for the majority on this thread, cop on about pubs ripping you off - there are literally hundreds for sale for next to nothing if you think its such a goldmine.

sandin · 10-04-2012 8:18am

StudentDad wrote: »

So running a pub has overheads that need paying? So does every business!

At the end of the day it is a pubs customers that keep it going and if the customers feel they are being screwed they won't pay no matter how many 'justifications' are trotted out!

The way I see it, nobody has a god given right to operate in the market - you either give the customer what he wants or you get out of that business!

Running to govt. and whining because people are electing to buy alcohol elsewhere and not in a pub smacks of desperation.

Nobody is duty bound to do their drinking or socialising at the pub.

SD

In my business I have overheads. I have over 30 staff to pay, rent and rates to pay on four properties, but thankfully I don't operate in a business where competitors sell below cost, nor do I have to pay €400 to open on a Thursday evening, nor do i have unions telling me to pay staff extortionate rates of pay (barmen & bar managers), nor are my staff twidling their thumbs for 70% of their working time as the business is spreead over seven days.

Currently 20% of my business comes from outside Ireland as I can compete with any competitor anywhere in Europe because I don't have any costs that they don't have.

If someone did come into the market and sarted selling below cost, I'd have to close up immediately. Then there's less choice in the market and the person who sold below cost, raises prices above the original price.

If anyone thinks below cost selling si savign you money, do a basic economics course. Nothing is for nothing. Below cost selling is balanced by increased prices on other goods.

OldNotWIse · 10-04-2012 10:14am

"Maybe compare a microwave burger from the same supermarket with McDonalds - oh no, mcdonalds aren't the fashion to knock."

But nobody is suggesting that shops put a minimum price on their microwave burgers so that McDonalds can stay in business... :rolleyes:

StudentDad · 10-04-2012 11:45am

sandin wrote: »

In my business I have overheads. I have over 30 staff to pay, rent and rates to pay on four properties, but thankfully I don't operate in a business where competitors sell below cost, nor do I have to pay €400 to open on a Thursday evening, nor do i have unions telling me to pay staff extortionate rates of pay (barmen & bar managers), nor are my staff twidling their thumbs for 70% of their working time as the business is spreead over seven days.

Currently 20% of my business comes from outside Ireland as I can compete with any competitor anywhere in Europe because I don't have any costs that they don't have.

If someone did come into the market and sarted selling below cost, I'd have to close up immediately. Then there's less choice in the market and the person who sold below cost, raises prices above the original price.

If anyone thinks below cost selling si savign you money, do a basic economics course. Nothing is for nothing. Below cost selling is balanced by increased prices on other goods.

I'm sorry mate if somebody comes into the market and undercuts you that's called business and frankly tough ****!

Please don't try and use 'the devil you know' argument. Businesses come and go. Some are like mushrooms, here today, gone tomorrow.

SD

Zonda999 · 15-04-2012 12:56am

I think there should be a website like pumps.ie for pubs where people can log on and input how much pints are in certain pubs. For cities like Dublin, Cork or Galway,it could help when going to any of these for a weekend or a night out or whatever. If it got a bit of a reputation or whatever, it could really give some of the rip off places a bad reputation which is good enough for the f**kers IMHO, never been out in Templebar(As I'm from Cork) but i can safely say I wont be bothering any time soon from what i hear..

People voting with their feet is the only way to change this unfortunately..

And to those defending the pubs here, I don't think anyone here is, for a second saying that pubs shouldnt make a profit, of course they should, like all viable business'. But people here feel that certain pubs are clearly making a lot more money out of them than others.Obviously competition is the name of the game here, by all accounts, voting with their feet. Unfortunately that is not happening to a sufficient extent for price's to take a noticeable fall. That is not the fault of the pub owners however... This makes me sad. What especially makes me sad though is the impression of post recession, getting an international bailout Ireland, tourists get when they have to shell out 7€ for a pint in temble bar..

My two cents on it though are that some pub owners think they deserve to automatically be making money and saying they can't survive because of competition from supermarkets. Unfortunately(for them), this is the very nature of capitalism! Viable business's surviving and unviable one's failing. Its a simple fact of the society we live. We accept change or constantly live on the past..

DoesNotCompute · 15-04-2012 11:39am

Zonda999 wrote: »

I think there should be a website like pumps.ie for pubs where people can log on and input how much pints are in certain pubs.

There already is: http://pintofplain.com/

DoesNotCompute · 17-04-2012 8:40pm

Had a pint in O'Reillys under Tara St station. 3.30 for a Heineken. I've also walked past a place just off George's street (on Lower Stephen Street, I think) that sell all pints for 3 euro iirc

tayto lover · 17-04-2012 8:48pm

sandin wrote: »

That's a proper and reasonable reason for not going out and that's part and parcel of the recession.

But you have eejits here who think a pub should sell drink at the same price as tesco and have no understanding whatsoever of the costs involved - friends of mine used to have a pub in a decent size town, but they closed it as they could not get any type of wage form it and got sick of the beow cost selling in supermarkets and yobbos bringing in naggins of vodka.

If you dropped in at 11pm on a saturday, you'd think they were doing great, but try again at 11pm on a Wednesday and it was a different story - but the heat had to be on, the refridgeration had to be on, the lights had to be on. On a good wednesday there was €300 in the till (€240 ex vat) - that wouldn't even pay a wage for a night!

So for the majority on this thread, cop on about pubs ripping you off - there are literally hundreds for sale for next to nothing if you think its such a goldmine.

Sell it cheaper and get more people in then. Win / Win.

Raekwon · 17-04-2012 9:09pm

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Had a pint in O'Reillys under Tara St station. 3.30 for a Heineken. I've also walked past a place just off George's street (on Lower Stephen Street, I think) that sell all pints for 3 euro iirc

Where's this place with €3 pints? The only pubs on Lower Stephen Street are Capital Bar, Bia Bar, The Hairy Lemon & Break for the Boarder and they are all €5+ for a pint of larger.

BunShopVoyeur · 17-04-2012 9:22pm

sandin wrote: »

wetherspoons offer poor quality food - I see their menu every month or so in the UK when I am brought to lunch there. (no say in the matter)

Its cheap because you order at the bar, pay before the food is service and its dumped on your table.
If you want tomato sauce you are pointed where to get it.
The food has no provenence (I asked where the beef came from and was told it came from a cow) and the portion size is always on the small size.

Their beer prices are not cheap - reasonable value, yes, but not cheap. (£3.35 for pint carling - its €4 in my local, which is same price), bottled beers are £3.95 albeit for a 500ml bottle af decent ale, but same bottle is €5 in Hartes in Kildare Town (same price).

There may be regional variances, but you can hardly call Coventry a salubrious part of the UK.

They looked at moving into Ireland (2004 and again in 2010) )and walked away because their business model would not suit the market.

You're talking complete nonsense. Your idea of quality food must be steak, chicken nuggets or chips.

Wetherspoons have a nicer selection of beer and food than we get here from what I've seen.

It was my first time visiting one recently in Glasgow, I had a lovely pint of bitter ale and a "super food" salad. Both were delicious.
The bar was welcoming, relaxing and I had a nicer afternoon than I've had in an Irish pub in a long long time.

BunShopVoyeur · 17-04-2012 9:26pm

sandin wrote: »

The stupidy spouted by many on this thread is amazing.

Comparing a bottle of beer bought from a supermaket with a drink in apub? - Utter ridiculous

Maybe compare a microwave burger from the same supermarket with McDonalds - oh no, mcdonalds aren't the fashion to knock.

I suppose all the eejits here are assuming the following

Pubs don't pay an annual licance fee
Pubs don't pay staff
Pubs get free electricity and free oil
Pubs don't pay rent
Pubs don't pay rates
Pubs don't pay water charges
Pubs don't even pay for the glasses the drink is poured into.

Wake up to yourselves and your stupidity. The price of drinks in pubs here in Ireland are quite similar to those charged in pubs in the UK, France, Germany, USA and most other countries.

You don't compare a rural UK pub to a centre city pub. Most London pubs charge £4 average for pints with zero service, most parisian pubs charge €7 fo a pint with zero service, most Franfurt pubs charge €4 for a 400ml glass of beer with basic service.

Once you go after midnight or into clubs, prices in ALL cities rise substantially. In London, most clubs charge £5 a bottle.

Maybe when below cost selling of alcohol is finally banned, the kids here will realise the value of a decent pint in a decent pub.

btw - here's the average price for pub drinks in London from DesignMyNight.com website. note spirits are 25ml in size not 37.5ml as you receive in an Irish pub.

"Pint of Lager£3.80 Pint of Ale £3.60 Bottle of Lager£3.75 Bottle of Cider£4.00 Cocktail No Price Spirit and Mixer £5.50 Large Glass of Wine£4.20 Bottle of House Wine£16.00"

With this attitude, you deserve to go out of business.

Over 5 euro for a pint in Ireland How do we Stop this

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