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Horrific Footage of Homeless Schizophrenic beaten by cops

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Bambi wrote: »
    You saw him being beaten around the head in that video? Fair Play so.
    I heard the coroner's report which stated that he had sustained brain injury and fractures to his face. Now it is possible, if unlikely, that he was walking around prior to the incident with a crushed thorax and a severely damaged face, or that he fell out of the ambulance on the way to the hospital and rolled down a bumpy hill. But it's not an unreasonable application of Occam's razor to assume that the officer who proclaimed he was going to "**** [him] up" proceeded to do just that.
    yeah his ribs were broken apparently, that will happen when five coppers sit on someone. I've seen the pictures of the guy, I've seen pictures of guys who looked in similar conditions after MMA bouts who went on their merry way. :confused:
    A lone unarmed individual should not walk away from a confrontation with police looking like they'd taken a particularly severe beating in an MMA fight, much less die from the injuries. Every Saturday night police apprehend uncooperative individuals and they manage to do so without inflicting GBH and ultimately killing them.

    Really and truly, do you believe the police acted in an appropriate manner, or have you caught a case of internet and you're just arguing for the sake of it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    What is it with American cops and police brutality? There's some absolute scum in the American police force.
    There are a lot more of them, so incidents like this are naturally going to occur more often than in smaller countries, all other things being equal.

    Law enforcement is also done on strange levels though too, where you have different agencies with different levels of actual legal authority. So "mall cops" have certain legal powers and authority, as do your standard beat cops. Private agencies can often have the legal power of stop/search/arrest as well as the public cops.
    This creates an issue where the standard of training and vetting not only varies from state to state, but also massively varies within the state, depending on what county you're in, whose jurisdiction you're under, and what agency the "cop" who stops you, belongs to.

    In European countries where we're mostly accustomed to having a single national police force with uniform authority, and no other forces have any legal authority, it's much easier to keep control over who becomes an officer and how you train them.

    Also, never has a punk song been more appropriate:



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    I heard the coroner's report which stated that he had sustained brain injury and fractures to his face. Now it is possible, if unlikely, that he was walking around prior to the incident with a crushed thorax and a severely damaged face, or that he fell out of the ambulance on the way to the hospital and rolled down a bumpy hill. But it's not an unreasonable application of Occam's razor to assume that the officer who proclaimed he was going to "**** [him] up" proceeded to do just that.


    Really and truly, do you believe the police acted in an appropriate manner, or have you caught a case of internet and you're just arguing for the sake of it?


    Or his face got smacked off the concrete or he got tazed in the face, or or or..

    Interesting logic though, he got beaten up and died therefore the coppers must be in the wrong because omg omg omg look at the video. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Involuntary manslaughter? What exactly was involuntary about it? That's a joke.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭Censorsh!t


    Bambi wrote: »
    Or his face got smacked off the concrete or he got tazed in the face, or or or..

    Interesting logic though, he got beaten up and died therefore the coppers must be in the wrong because omg omg omg look at the video. :confused:

    Your argument reminds me of Derek's in American History X.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Another example of small man syndrome. Another reason why should never have lowered the height restrictions for An Garda Siochana.:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Involuntary manslaughter? What exactly was involuntary about it? That's a joke.
    In the United States, the term involuntary manslaughter covers criminal negligence. It's meant to cover a death which arises because someone has done something stupid but didn't intend to cause serious harm.

    In this case presumably the argument is that the officers were carrying out an arrest using force (as they are allowed to), but were criminally negligent in the use of that force and therefore it is involuntary manslaughter. Probably a lot easier to prove in a court of law than to prove that they were just looking to beat the snot out of the guy. (Note, I haven't watched the video).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    I heard the coroner's report which stated that he had sustained brain injury and fractures to his face. Now it is possible, if unlikely, that he was walking around prior to the incident with a crushed thorax and a severely damaged face, or that he fell out of the ambulance on the way to the hospital and rolled down a bumpy hill. But it's not an unreasonable application of Occam's razor to assume that the officer who proclaimed he was going to "**** [him] up" proceeded to do just that.

    A lone unarmed individual should not walk away from a confrontation with police looking like they'd taken a particularly severe beating in an MMA fight, much less die from the injuries. Every Saturday night police apprehend uncooperative individuals and they manage to do so without inflicting GBH and ultimately killing them.

    Really and truly, do you believe the police acted in an appropriate manner, or have you caught a case of internet and you're just arguing for the sake of it?

    I don't think the use of Occams razor will ever be accepted in courts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bambi wrote: »
    Or his face got smacked off the concrete or he got tazed in the face, or or or..

    Interesting logic though, he got beaten up and died therefore the coppers must be in the wrong because omg omg omg look at the video. :confused:


    ....because going on whats known at this point in time, they were the ones who inflicted the injuries/were the cause of them. I really can't see what your problem is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Bambi wrote: »
    Or his face got smacked off the concrete or he got tazed in the face, or or or..
    Honestly, from the pictures of his face does it look like he the injuries were caused solely by smacking his face off the kerb? He received fractures on both the front and side of his head which suggests that he took a beating, quite possible from the cop who told him he was going to **** him up.
    Interesting logic though, he got beaten up and died therefore the coppers must be in the wrong because omg omg omg look at the video. :confused:
    He was apprehended and in being so he received extensive injuries severe enough that they resulted in his death. I don't see how it's such a massive leap of logic to claim that the officers who inflicted these injuries are complicit in his death.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    seamus wrote: »
    In the United States, the term involuntary manslaughter covers criminal negligence. It's meant to cover a death which arises because someone has done something stupid but didn't intend to cause serious harm.

    In this case presumably the argument is that the officers were carrying out an arrest using force (as they are allowed to), but were criminally negligent in the use of that force and therefore it is involuntary manslaughter. Probably a lot easier to prove in a court of law than to prove that they were just looking to beat the snot out of the guy. (Note, I haven't watched the video).

    I know what it is. It's still a joke.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    I'm a bit surprised that this was released by the defence as evidence that he wasn't resisting because it looks and sounds in the video like he was. It's a very unfortunate incident for all involved but far from a minless beating that it's been described as.

    It does riase one particular issue though. How are police supposed to handle a mentally ill patient who can't comply with orders?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭KamiKazeKitten


    Bambi wrote: »
    You'll find the prosecution service will pursue the case one way or the other, regardless of whether the use of force is judged to be within departmental guidelines or not. That's how public outrage works. Same in the Diallo case in New York. The police involved were found to have acted within the use of force guidelines by their dept but they still wound up being prosecuted for murder (and acquitted), which was another shock-outrage-how-could-they moment :)

    And if they get found not guilty well and good for them.

    I would imagine that there is, y'know, evidence to justify a court case as well. Such as this video, maybe?

    As to how to deal with him - well, they had him pinned down, no? He wouldn't have gone anywhere like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    As to how to deal with him - well, they had him pinned down, no? He wouldn't have gone anywhere like that.


    Which would be absolutely super if cops are just supposed to hold people down all day. Except they are'nt, hence the little problem of non compliance :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭facemelter


    The officers involved were charged. I'm not sure what the point is in releasing the footage.

    only two have been charged , afaik


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭KamiKazeKitten


    Bambi wrote: »
    Which would be absolutely super if cops are just supposed to hold people down all day. Except they are'nt, hence the little problem of non compliance :)

    Call for backup if they need to, put him in a cell if they need.

    Cops aren't supposed to beat people bloody, hence their little problem of a trial hanging over their heads. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Call for backup if they need to, put him in a cell if they need.

    Cops aren't supposed to beat people bloody, hence their little problem of a trial hanging over their heads. :)

    You mean call for the backup that already had been called for and had arrived? That backup? Presumably the idea of locking him in a cell had occurred to them and would explain why they were trying to handcuff the nutter before they could transport him to said cell? :confused:

    Cops are supposed to beat people bloody, they're even supposed to shoot people dead, so long as that's the appropriate level of force that circumstances dictate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    I think Bambi is just trolling tbh.

    I live in Boston and definitely notice a difference in the police over here. I hope that these thugs were just outliers in the police force. However, in general, you notice far more immediate attitude from police officers over here. A lot would shout at you as soon as talk to you (lads doing traffic duty for instance).

    All the police officers in this video should have been charged.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bambi wrote: »
    Which would be absolutely super if cops are just supposed to hold people down all day. Except they are'nt, hence the little problem of non compliance :)

    Yep. Thats why closed mental wards and secure hospitals have people dying every day of the week - they just can't deal with non-compliance without beatin a fella to pulp.


  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ Gage Some Silver


    Bambi wrote: »
    Or his face got smacked off the concrete or he got tazed in the face, or or or..

    Interesting logic though, he got beaten up and died therefore the coppers must be in the wrong because omg omg omg look at the video. :confused:

    Yeah, let's not look at the video. Let's ignore the bit when the cop said he was going to **** him up.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yep. Thats why closed mental wards and secure hospitals have people dying every day of the week - they just can't deal with non-compliance without beatin a fella to pulp.

    i presume you are excluding suicides from your calculations?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    i presume you are excluding suicides from your calculations?

    ......why would I include suicides in a discussion on the level of force and methods used to move a mentally ill person by a number of security personnel?

    And why would you even mention it...?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    ......why would I include suicides in a discussion on the level of force and methods used to move a mentally ill person by a number of security personnel?

    And why would you even mention it...?

    You brought up deaths in mental health wards. Do you actually know anything about them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭Dead Man Walking


    Sick to my stomach after watching that, actually turned it off shortly after the second two cops arrived on the scene.

    ****ing humans :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Bambi wrote: »
    You mean call for the backup that already had been called for and had arrived? That backup? Presumably the idea of locking him in a cell had occurred to them and would explain why they were trying to handcuff the nutter before they could transport him to said cell? :confused:

    Cops are supposed to beat people bloody, they're even supposed to shoot people dead, so long as that's the appropriate level of force that circumstances dictate.

    You should probably get your facts straight before you decide to make a complete arsehole out of yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Jesus. I'd normally be for defending cops, but f***ing hell. Guy twirling his baton, then both swinging at him as he's running. I hope they get convicted. As cops, a lifetime in segregation, tantamount to solitary confinement, awaits. They'll wish they'd killed themselves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    How was the sound recorded?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Parsley


    WindSock wrote: »
    How was the sound recorded?

    the cops' digital recorders i think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    vetinari wrote: »
    I think Bambi is just trolling tbh.

    Not really, I just find it funny that people think their oh-the-humanity-that's-so-waffles response to seeing a guy being beaten is in anyway as valid as an understanding of the relevant laws or use of force matrix that the cops were operating under.

    Am I defending the coppers? Nope, I'm just having a go at this lot posting here. Cos I cant tell see whats going on in most of that video and what I can see would be in compliance with most use of force policies. If it turns out that they tazed the guy in the face repeatedly or smashed his skull in with a torch then they'll go down. If you can see where that happens in the video post the timings up. Third time of asking and no takers for that, odd :confused:


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Bambi wrote: »
    You mean call for the backup that already had been called for and had arrived? That backup? Presumably the idea of locking him in a cell had occurred to them and would explain why they were trying to handcuff the nutter before they could transport him to said cell? :confused:

    Cops are supposed to beat people bloody, they're even supposed to shoot people dead, so long as that's the appropriate level of force that circumstances dictate.


    Are they also suppose to people they are going to "f*** them up with there fists?" And put so much pressure on someones chest they send them into a coma?

    What a plank.


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