Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Please Read OP)

ISAW wrote: »

and the true agenda is again exposed.

That's right. It is what it is. You've not "exposed" anything genius. I'm perfectly honest about it. You don't have to like it any more than I have to like the stuff you come out with. It's not a conspiracy, it's reason. You too can find it if you only open your heart to it and accept it as your savior; or not, up to you.



Yes. but you will not be allowed to here in a discussion forum in that way.

Fair enough, I'll not lose sleep.

Try usenet e.g. alt.atheism for unmoderated discussions where people like Fasgnadh will dismantle your arguments.

No thanks, I'm not really that obsessed about it, I don't spend any more time on it than it actually merits.

PDN wrote: »

I think you need to pause and reflect whether you want to discuss this rationally, or whether you want to get all emotional.

I personally would prefer it if people avoided exploiting or using the very recent tragic death of a small child to advance their religious views.

However, if you are determined to discuss this particular case, then be prepared to receive rational responses. ISAW's point is valid, in that we ask where you want to draw the line where God should overrule or not overrule our free will. Should God intervene and stop you falling over if you are dumb enough not to tie your shoe laces? Should He intervene if you are a negligent parent and continually allow your child to play on the rail of a balcony? How many times should he catch your child for you? Once a year? Once a week? Every five minutes? If you are a scabby landlord who uses substandard materials and fits unsafe windows on your apartments, should God bail you out by making sure no-one ever gets hurt by your sinful negligence?

(Please note, none of the above makes any assumptions about who or what caused the death of the particular child that is being used as a pawn in this discussion. I don't think any of us know enough about the circumstances to apportion blame or to discuss the reasons for that tragedy.)

I see it as rather an emotive issue tbh. How can you not? How could anyone not?
The point could however have been less adequately made with your shoelace example and be just as valid.

Wow! I just noticed this assumption you say you do not make (emboldened). Yes he bloody well should if he's to be of any use to us at all. Otherwise he can pi** right off, he's not worth respect.
(Caveat: he doesn't exist so it's irrelavent)

ISAW wrote: »

well this point had been dealt with also.

even if race does not exist one can be racist
Even if christ does not exist one can be anti christian.
Claiming they dont believe in the Jewish religion wont get nazis off the hook.

Straight for the comparison with Nazis eh. Didn't take you long to fall on familiar ground did it? Should I regard that as an attack on my belief system and be outraged? Howl injustice and persecution?
Perhaps I won't bother today. You feel free though.

At least the point was dealt with to your satisfaction you mean. That's okay then. After all, that's all that really matters isn't it. It's not like anything I or anyone else might ever say could sway you in any way from your beliefs is it? I know there is absolutely no point to this conversation or forum. You'll still be here preaching your particular brand of nuts long after I've lost interest and moved away to more pressing matters in the real world where after you die you no more exist than you did before you were conceived.

Cossax wrote: »

Who would argue it is a religion?

Ah you've not been paying attention. ISAW would, in overly long posts that, after a while, no reasonable person would bother to read given that it's all just a restatement of what's come before. Instead you may find that after a while you will feel safe dismissing these ramblings in favour of getting on with the business of living your life over the business of preparing to die. :rolleyes:

Lest anyone get the wrong idea; I don't have "religious views", I have views on religion and the religious in that I think of them as deluded fools to be pitied in exactly the same way that I imagine they think of me. That however is just my personal opinion.

ISAW wrote: »

yu are entitled to an opinion.
But when you start acting on that opinion for example by suggesting Christians or Catholics for example are deluded or stupid or foolish then it is more than an opinion. You encourage others of a similar mindset. and it builds up. son a number of them are involved in thanking each others posts and complaining about posters not of the mindset.

Also if all you have is your opinion and no actual evidence references or scholarship to provide what is your purpose or consequence to a valid discussion other than hurling in the ditch?

That's right! I am!
What others of a similar mindset choose to do is entirely up to them. I do not require thanks. I do not require anything of anyone and I certainly won't threaten eternal damnation for those who do not share my views. I am not trying to establish or consolidate a religion. I am an atheist. Of all the thousands of gods in recorded history, I believe in none. That's one three headed god less than you I imagine. However if such opinion does propagate I would not be displeased.
What you and I will accept as factual evidence hold to two distinctly different, incompatible standards Sir! You are willing to accept things that I simply will not.
I question in fact, the very validity to the dicussion to which you allude.
There can be no valid conclusion to such a debate. No definitive proof can be offered. In the end, all that remains, is opinion is it not?
Do you really believe you are doing any more than simply hurling in this ditch you speak of?
What is your purpose for continuing? Is it perhaps that you wish to "encourage others of a similar mindset"?

Medicine333 wrote: »

Unlike you, very few good Christians would make such a judgement.

Surely a good christian would pity me my ignorance? Think me a fool for believing as I do? Would they not try to bring the light into my life so that I could be saved? If not, why not?

Apparently not though, I must say I am surprised!! Are you, as a "good Christian" not secretly angry and annoyed that I might question your beliefs? Maybe a little glad that I'll go to hell while you as a "good Christian" get to bask in the eternal happiness and love of the life you believe exists after this one? At least there'll be justice at the end of all days, isn't that it?

Well that's definitely what I thought so I humbly apologise to you "good Christian".

(Is that a title you gave yourself or was it given to you?)

Medicine333 wrote: »

I never called myself a good Christian, it was you who assumed it. I don't know where you got that from, but reading the sarcasm in your post, I'm not surprised you come to such conclusions.

I don't get annoyed with atheists, but I do pity them. Why wouldn't I? They believe in no afterlife, nothing after death. How can they even attempt to find meaning in life? That we're put on Earth for a reason? When things are bad, when all situations seem hopeless, I always wonder how atheists manage with their refusal to turn to God when he is there.

I pray for people who don't believe in God, and I sincerely hope neither of us go to Hell.

However, the tone of your post is one which is synonymous with atheists, unfortunately. It is one of condescension.

So you do pity me. That seems not to seem condescending to you though? "the tone of your post is one which is synonymous with" atheists religious, "unfortunately. It is one of condescension".

Tell me, what is this reason that we are put here. It's nice to finally come across someone who has a definitive answer?

You're right, athiests believe in nothing after death and so must find their meaning in this life rather than the next. It's more rewarding than you think.

Medicine333 wrote: »

. How can they even attempt to find meaning in life?

You said exactly that!