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Murder of Marlhill, New Inn (c.1940)

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    #32
    Resend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Resend


    HelenV wrote: »
    Resend,
    I heard there was another book written by a local man but an injunction was taken out to prevent its sale. I think it was titled The Farsical Hanging of Harry Gleeson but I could be way off the mark with the title. I heard the book named names etc. and the injunction may have been taken out around the time of Marcus Bourke's book.
    Do you know anything about this?
    no never heard of it. i googled it and found this which has been referred to above. if it named names could well have ben an injunction


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    #33
    Resend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Resend


    sumup wrote: »
    hi Brian

    I like you have a great interest in Harry Gleeson been cleared of the murder of moll my father grew up down the road from where Moll was found and according to him The gaurds had a hand in her murder. ive been trying to get a copy of one of the books that was wrote about the murder there was two published marlhill murder and murder at marlhill im not sure who wrote them. My dad also has a book that was wrote but never published by a local man its very interesting. both of the books seem to be out of print does that shop in Thurles have either one of them?? we did have them but they were given to a lady who has died and we cant get them back!

    regards
    who wrote it


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    #34
    morgan3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭morgan3


    I have followed these posts with interest. I am glad to see you amended your post on the 30th May 2011. Please note number 4 in terms and conditions of using boards.ie.


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    #35
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    morgan3 wrote: »
    I have followed these posts with interest. I am glad to see you amended your post on the 30th May 2011. Please note number 4 in terms and conditions of using boards.ie.

    Firstly, as the moderator, I am well aware of the terms of use and did not breach them. What is not allowed around here, however, is back-seat moderation, or making veiled threats hinting at legal action. That's a fast-track to a ban. As you are new here, I won't infract you, but consider yourself informed.

    I amended my post for personal reasons, but there was absolutely no onus on me to do so. In any case, no one was accused of anything. Speculation from the 1940s as to the possible identity of the killer was commented on, however. This is a topic of historical interest dealing with individuals who had names, all of whom are now dead. I can either allow the topic to be freely discussed, or I can close the thread. I have decided to allow free discussion. If anyone feels they might be offended by what they read, then they can discontinue reading it.

    Please note also that discussion of moderation is prohibited in-thread, so resort to PM if you have any further queries.


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    #36
    Resend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Resend


    Tremelo wrote: »
    Firstly, as the moderator, I am well aware of the terms of use and did not breach them. What is not allowed around here, however, is back-seat moderation, or making veiled threats hinting at legal action. That's a fast-track to a ban. As you are new here, I won't infract you, but consider yourself informed.

    I amended my post for personal reasons, but there was absolutely no onus on me to do so. In any case, no one was accused of anything. Speculation from the 1940s as to the possible identity of the killer was commented on, however. This is a topic of historical interest dealing with individuals who had names, all of whom are now dead. I can either allow the topic to be freely discussed, or I can close the thread. I have decided to allow free discussion. If anyone feels they might be offended by what they read, then they can discontinue reading it.

    Please note also that discussion of moderation is prohibited in-thread, so resort to PM if you have any further queries.
    where is the post of 30 may? i am interested in the discussion of it. did you amend or delete? thanks


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    #37
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Resend wrote: »
    where is the post of 30 may? i am interested in the discussion of it. did you amend or delete? thanks

    He is referring to post #2, which I amended on 30 May after the thread had been recently bumped. Any user can contact a moderator at any time to request that a post be amended or deleted.


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    #38
    Resend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Resend


    Tremelo wrote: »
    He is referring to post #2, which I amended on 30 May after the thread had been recently bumped. Any user can contact a moderator at any time to request that a post be amended or deleted.
    seems to have dried up pity, fascinating story


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    #39
    gossipgal08
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭gossipgal08


    Carlo Gebler was just on Pat Kenny talking about his book


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    #40
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Under the Dead Eight, go to programme podcast on the right side of the page


    Pat Kenny show yesterday
    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/


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    #41
    paulronayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭paulronayne


    Henry "Harry" Gleeson was born Jan-Mar 1897 at the family homestead at Galbertstown Lower, Holycross, Co. Tipperary. He was the ninth child of farmer Thomas Gleeson and Catherine Caesar. They were married Jan-Mar 1883 and had 12 children, all surviving infancy. Harry went to work for his mother's brother John, at Marlhill Farm. Harry's younger brother Patrick (b. Mar 1901) would ultimately inherit Marlhill after John Caeser's death (Jan-Mar 1951), aged 83.

    The Gleeson family are recorded on both the 1901 & 1911 censuses at Galbertstown Lower.


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    #42
    HelenV
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭HelenV


    Nice bit of research


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    #43
    honeyvale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭honeyvale


    sumup wrote: »
    hi Brian

    I like you have a great interest in Harry Gleeson been cleared of the murder of moll my father grew up down the road from where Moll was found and according to him The gaurds had a hand in her murder. ive been trying to get a copy of one of the books that was wrote about the murder there was two published marlhill murder and murder at marlhill im not sure who wrote them. My dad also has a book that was wrote but never published by a local man its very interesting. both of the books seem to be out of print does that shop in Thurles have either one of them?? we did have them but they were given to a lady who has died and we cant get them back!

    regards
    A friend in Clonmel bought Murder at Marlhill at the bookshop in Showgrounds. New book section inside door beside the fiction story based on it


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    #44
    johnconnors
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭johnconnors


    My uncle has had a lifelong fascination with this case. He worked for an agricultural contractor all his life and he was on very friendly terms with the Gleeson family. He often told me about long conversations that he had with Harry's brothers, Paddy and Thady about those events and he was also very friendly with Harry's sister [a Mrs McCarthy, who lived in Castle avenue, Thurles]/, Long before it became popular to do so, my uncle believed in Gleesons innocence.
    The Gleesons and Caesers suffered greatly in the years following the murder. Back in those days, it was unthinkable that a guard, teacher, priest, judge would be even remotely capable of telling a lie. So the verdict as handed down would have been accepted without question.
    In the docuementary ,''Mystery at Marlhill'', a nurse [or care attendant] told how she went to the bedside of a dying patient, in the nurseing home where she worked. The dying patient was a daughter of Moll Carthy and she told this nurse that she saw her mother kill on their kitchen floor -and that a man who was entirely innocent was hanged for it.


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    #45
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    johnconnors wrote: »
    In the docuementary ,''Mystery at Marlhill'', a nurse [or care attendant] told how she went to the bedside of a dying patient, in the nurseing home where she worked. The dying patient was a daughter of Moll Carthy and she told this nurse that she saw her mother kill on their kitchen floor -and that a man who was entirely innocent was hanged for it.

    Why did she wait until she was old and dying before saying this?


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    #46
    HelenV
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭HelenV


    In all fairness - she was taken into care after her mother's death. Maybe she didn't wait 'till she was old and dying beore speaking out - maybe she was old and dying before anyone simply listened to her.


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    #47
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    That is of course a possibility. It's also very possible that it's a myth. I find it hard to accept that a woman would have been claiming this throughout her life, only to be ignored until she was finally on her deathbed. I have no vested interest in proving or disproving Gleeson's innocence, but I have to say that such alleged testimony should be considered far too weak to have an impact on any serious analysis of the case.


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    #48
    johnconnors
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭johnconnors


    I agree that in legal terms such a disclosure would be of little value. All I know is that it was on the tv documentary by Cathal O Shannon some years ago. He also spoke with a son of Moll Carthys who was adamant that the evidence he gave at the trial was ndeed the truth. By today's standard, it would be unthinkable that anyone would keep something like that to themselves, but back in the 40's people looked at things differently. Just as an example-- Moll never divulged the fathers of any of her children. In today's world, there would be court proceedings around access and maintainance, Moll would publish the names on facebook, and the Sunday World would surely produce a headline that would strongly feature the words, ''Love Rat''.
    Irish families up to lately were plauged with secrets. My mother had an aunt, who one day left the farm where she worked to go to Thurles races. When she did not return that evening it was just presumed that she had went to England. I never heard my mother , aunts or uncles talk about her, or my grandfather [her brother]. I only discovered of her existance with the 1911 cencus comming online. When I said it to my mother, she just dismissed it out of hand with something like, ''we wouldn't be bothered about things like that.
    So , as to that nurses testomy in the tv documentry-- all I can say is that I saw it, I was impressed with it-- but as to it's worth or indeed validity, I can't say


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    #49
    kfagan99
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭kfagan99


    Fair question, but as children I think they were very isolated. Their mother had been murdered and many in the local community were hostile to them. They may well have decided among themselves not to discuss it any further once Harry Gleeson had been hanged. That is supposition of course.


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    #50
    vampirevixens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭vampirevixens


    i do hope they make movie out of it ...as its story i feel that needs to be showing to world ...told what happened to harry and molly ...


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    #51
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    johnconnors wrote: »
    I agree that in legal terms such a disclosure would be of little value. All I know is that it was on the tv documentary by Cathal O Shannon some years ago. He also spoke with a son of Moll Carthys who was adamant that the evidence he gave at the trial was ndeed the truth. By today's standard, it would be unthinkable that anyone would keep something like that to themselves, but back in the 40's people looked at things differently. Just as an example-- Moll never divulged the fathers of any of her children. In today's world, there would be court proceedings around access and maintainance, Moll would publish the names on facebook, and the Sunday World would surely produce a headline that would strongly feature the words, ''Love Rat''.
    Irish families up to lately were plauged with secrets. My mother had an aunt, who one day left the farm where she worked to go to Thurles races. When she did not return that evening it was just presumed that she had went to England. I never heard my mother , aunts or uncles talk about her, or my grandfather [her brother]. I only discovered of her existance with the 1911 cencus comming online. When I said it to my mother, she just dismissed it out of hand with something like, ''we wouldn't be bothered about things like that.
    So , as to that nurses testomy in the tv documentry-- all I can say is that I saw it, I was impressed with it-- but as to it's worth or indeed validity, I can't say


    Wow, sorry if this is off the point but did she go to England ?? Or did anyone every find out where she went ? Sounds a bit Annie McCarrick like to me.


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    #52
    johnconnors
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭johnconnors


    I think we sometimes today, look at events from the past through present day eyes. Communication today is practically instant with mobile phones, social media , etc. Back in the 1920's many people could not even read or write, and going to England would be a huge undertaking. It was not unusual back then for couples to elope, perhaps to escape from disapproving parents, pregnancy was often an issue, or just simply to make a better life for themselves. For family who were left behind, coping with the grind of daily life was enough to keep them busy, and any grief was shouldered alone. And if there were secrets, they were carried to the grave. They certainly wouldn't be emailing joe@rte.ie


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    #53
    nol4cos
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭nol4cos


    hi im related to the cooney's. it was my gran-aunt who got her buried in garranlea and erected a stone. Also one of her children who died at a young age is buried in my gran aunts family plot as the parish priest of the time refused to bury the child in the local cemetery because of her background.


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    #54
    johnconnors
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭johnconnors


    Hi, great to see your contribution here. I visited Garranlea cemetary twice this past summer in the hope that I might be able to identify the grave where Moll Carty was buried. The graveyard itself is very well maintained but the inscription on many of the stones is difficult to make out. I could easily identify a number of momuments dedicated to the 'Keating' family who were apparently the origonal owners of Garranlea House. Try as I might, I could find no 'Cooney' gravestone. I feel that this is rather sad, as the Cooney family were well know for their kindness and generousity to those in the neighbourhood who were in want and poverty.


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    #55
    nol4cos
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭nol4cos


    The cooney family have their own family plot in another county. My brother & a neighbour have a good idea where the grave is. it is on the right hand side down towards the back wall.


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    #56
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    Just read this whole thread very interesting stuff, it says on Wikipedia that the case was documented in 2 RTE television programmes, is this right. Either way does anyone know of a way I could watch either of them, thanks.


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    #57
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    meoklmrk91 wrote: »
    Just read this whole thread very interesting stuff, it says on Wikipedia that the case was documented in 2 RTE television programmes, is this right. Either way does anyone know of a way I could watch either of them, thanks.

    It was documented in Cathal O'Shannon's series Thou Shalt Not Kill in the 90s.


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    #58
    ANSI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭ANSI


    Tremelo wrote: »
    It was documented in Cathal O'Shannon's series Thou Shalt Not Kill in the 90s.
    Will Nugent played Gleeson . He might have a copy


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    #59
    eoin111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭eoin111


    hey this is my first time on this...i first saw abou moll macarthys death on an rte programe years ago nd have been interested in it ever since..i myself am from poulmucka approximatiatly 8kms south east of marlhill... i am studyin history in third level and was intereted in doin a project abou it...and i am lookin 4 info abou it?i was wonderin if any1 new of any advancement in the case? and if they still had copoies of the book murder at marlhill in the show grounds in clonmel?thanks


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    #60
    berrypendel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 365 ✭✭berrypendel


    eoin111 wrote: »
    hey this is my first time on this...i first saw abou moll macarthys death on an rte programe years ago nd have been interested in it ever since..i myself am from poulmucka approximatiatly 8kms south east of marlhill... i am studyin history in third level and was intereted in doin a project abou it...and i am lookin 4 info abou it?i was wonderin if any1 new of any advancement in the case? and if they still had copoies of the book murder at marlhill in the show grounds in clonmel?thanks
    Easons Clonmel have it


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    #61
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Emailed RTÉ to see if they'll show Thou Shalt Not Kill again.
    Doubt I'll get a reply but I'll follow up

    Cathal O'Shannon died late last year so could be somewhat appropriate to run his show again for those who remember it and those who missed it first time around


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