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how much protein, one meal?

  • 14-04-2012 4:05pm
    #1
    nino1
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭


    how much protein can an average 200lb person process in one meal?

    i know if i have a high protein meal and a shake shortly afterwards I'm pissing more often and I assume I'm pissing the excess protein out?


Comments

  • #2
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    nino1 wrote: »
    how much protein can an average 200lb person process in one meal?

    i know if i have a high protein meal and a shake shortly afterwards I'm pissing more often and I assume I'm pissing the excess protein out?

    You assume wrong.


  • #3
    nino1
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭nino1


    thanks for your helpful answer Hanley!

    does anyone know the answer without being a smart arse?


  • #4
    marathonic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭marathonic


    nino1 wrote: »
    thanks for your helpful answer Hanley!

    does anyone know the answer without being a smart arse?

    As far as I'm aware, and correct me if I'm wrong here, you absorb the first 30g pretty quickly and the rest, although absorbed, is absorbed slower.

    For this reason, a lot of people think more than 30g in a single meal is 'wasted' protein. This, as far as I know, is not the case.


  • #5
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    nino1 wrote: »
    thanks for your helpful answer Hanley!

    does anyone know the answer without being a smart arse?

    So you want the same answer again, but in a less smart arse manner?! :D


  • #6
    roro1neil0
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭roro1neil0


    So what you're saying is excess dietary protein is not simply excreted in urine and faeces but is rather stored and utilised later?


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  • #7
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    roro1neil0 wrote: »
    So what you're saying is excess dietary protein is not simply excreted in urine and faeces but is rather stored and utilised later?
    yep or converted to energy and stored as fat


  • #8
    UL_heart_throb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭UL_heart_throb


    roro1neil0 wrote: »
    So what you're saying is excess dietary protein is not simply excreted in urine and faeces but is rather stored and utilised later?

    Protein is ingested and transported to the stomach via the oesophagus as a food bolus. Pepsin in the stomach begins the hydrolysis of proteins and starts breaking the dietary proteins into proteoses, peptones and some polypeptides.
    These protein sub-structures are transferred from the stomach to the duodenum and jejunum of the small intestine. Here, pancreatic enzymes such as trpysin, chymotrypsin, carboxypolypeptidase and proeclastase break the proteins down. The trypsin and chymotrpsin break protein into polypeptides and the carboxypolypeptidase along with other specific peptidases break the polypeptides into amino acids. However, only a small proportion of proteins are broken all the way down to the basic amino acids by pancreatic enzymes. Protein segments are broken down in the brush border of the small intestine by aminopolypeptidase. Cytosol within the enterocytes digest the rest of the Dipeptides and tripeptides into amino acids and they absorbed into the blood. Sodium co-transporters transfer the amino acids and polypeptides across the microvili's membranes.
    Protein digestion and absorption can take place over 2-3 hours after eating a meal. Excess amino acids in the blood are absorbed by cells throughout the body but especially by the liver in about 5-10 minutes. Inside most cells, the amino acids start rejoining to each other forming proteins again.
    Therefore the blood concentration of amino acids is rarely very high for very long. but if a particular amino acid is in high concentration, it won't be reabsorbed fast enough by the proximal tubule and will excreted in urine.
    The newly reformed proteins are easily broken down to amino acids against by cellular enzymes and in times of need, they will be dumped back into the plasma. There is hormonal control to this also as growth hormone and insulin increase the formation of tissue proteins while glucocorticoid hormones increase the concentration of plasma amino acids.
    At the end of the day all the cells in the body have an upper limit for protein or amino acid storage. Excess amino acids will be metabolised for energy, converted to fat or glycogen and stored in these forms. First the amino acid are deanimated in the liver. Ammonia is a by-product of these biochemical reactions and it is converted to urea for excretion by the kidney. The deanimated amino acid is then oxidised to release ATP via citric acid cycle.
    Deaminated amino acids can be also used as the substrate for gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis resulting in the formation of glucose and glycogen and fatty acids. Very little bio-available protein is excreted in the urine or faeces.

    sources - guyton and hall physiology


  • #9
    nino1
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭nino1


    Hanley wrote: »
    So you want the same answer again, but in a less smart arse manner?! :D

    you make no attenpt to answer the question of how much protein can be processed in one meal. you give no reason for your reply, just a smart are "you assume wrong"
    why bother replying at all if you are going to be like that?


  • #10
    UL_heart_throb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭UL_heart_throb


    did you read this post? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50973828&postcount=16

    i just read it now and it summarises what i said above in about 5 lines. very nice.

    anyway you can estimate your protein metabolic rate by measuring the urea in your urine but doesn't really sound that practical. The original poster recommends someone your size (200lbs) should have about 270g of protein a day. split that into 6 and you'll get what you should have at every meal, which is about 45g.


  • #11
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,980 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    nino1 wrote: »
    [
    you make no attenpt to answer the question of how much protein can be processed in one meal.
    There is no max amount. Thats been pointed out. By others already.
    Meals aren't digested instantly. It's works through the food bit by bit so more food simply takes longer. Eg it takes twice as long to digest 60g protein compared to 30g.

    Just try and get your target amounting in over the whole day and forget about a max amount at one meal.


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  • #12
    marathonic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭marathonic


    nino1 wrote: »
    you make no attenpt to answer the question of how much protein can be processed in one meal. you give no reason for your reply, just a smart are "you assume wrong"
    why bother replying at all if you are going to be like that?

    "You assume wrong" gives the same answer as post 8. I know which I'd rather read! :D


  • #13
    25215615
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭25215615


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    yep or converted to energy and stored as fat

    In fairness though it's the last thing your body will do is convert protein in to fat ...


  • #14
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    marathonic wrote: »
    "You assume wrong" gives the same answer as post 8. I know which I'd rather read! :D
    it's a smartarse answer with no info given, vrs post 8 which is full of actual information aimed at helping the OP


  • #15
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    it's a smartarse answer with no info given, vrs post 8 which is full of actual information aimed at helping the OP

    He made an assumption that he was peeing out protein and questioned if it was true, he was told he wasn't. A question was answered.

    The other one, about how much can X person eat at a single meal is really a question without a solid answer.


  • #16
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Hanley wrote: »
    He made an assumption that he was peeing out protein and questioned if it was true, he was told he wasn't. A question was answered.

    The other one, about how much can X person eat at a single meal is really a question without a solid answer.

    why didnt you address that?


  • #17
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    why didnt you address that?

    I assume I was busy doing something else and had limited time to reply.


  • #18
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    nino1 wrote: »
    how much protein can an average 200lb person process in one meal?

    i know if i have a high protein meal and a shake shortly afterwards I'm pissing more often and I assume I'm pissing the excess protein out?

    by 'process' do you mean in terms of adding muscle mass?

    muscle is 70% 'water', so that would mean there is around 130g of protein in 1lb of muscle. extra protein is converted to glucose, if that glucose isnt needed it will be stored as fat.
    it all depends on what state you body is in, does it need to repair muscle tissue, your age, what are your hormone levels like, etc etc


  • #19
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,980 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    by 'process' do you mean in terms of adding muscle mass?

    muscle is 70% 'water', so that would mean there is around 130g of protein in 1lb of muscle. extra protein is converted to glucose, if that glucose isnt needed it will be stored as fat.
    it all depends on what state you body is in, does it need to repair muscle tissue, your age, what are your hormone levels like, etc etc

    Just because muscle is 25 to 30% muscle it doesn't mean that's how much protein is required to build muscle. Its not even remotely close I'd say.
    The body can't just mix 130g of ingested protein with a glass of water and add 1lb of muscle.

    The other point about protein converting to glucose and then fat isn't right either. It won't do that in any sort of real life situation. Excess protein and then glucose from it, will burned off as fuel at the expense of dietary fat oxidation. Dietary fat will be stored "directly", as burning it as normal and then converting protein > glucose > fat is a much harder way of gettign from A to B. The body is very efficient and it doesn't create extra work for its self generally.


  • #20
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Mellor wrote: »
    Just because muscle is 25 to 30% muscle it doesn't mean that's how much protein is required to build muscle. Its not even remotely close I'd say.
    The body can't just mix 130g of ingested protein with a glass of water and add 1lb of muscle.

    The other point about protein converting to glucose and then fat isn't right either. It won't do that in any sort of real life situation. Excess protein and then glucose from it, will burned off as fuel at the expense of dietary fat oxidation. Dietary fat will be stored "directly", as burning it as normal and then converting protein > glucose > fat is a much harder way of gettign from A to B. The body is very efficient and it doesn't create extra work for its self generally.
    thats not what I said.

    so what do you say?


  • #21
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,980 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    kumate_champ07 wrote: »
    thats not what I said.

    so what do you say?
    If that not what you were implying (which is what it sounded like), then please could you explain this part then?
    kumate_champ wrote:
    by 'process' do you mean in terms of adding muscle mass?

    muscle is 70% 'water', so that would mean there is around 130g of protein in 1lb of muscle.
    How is the bolded part relevant to building muscle? Or to anything really. Unless the OP is a cannibal of course.

    I wouldn't even attempt put a number on the protien required tbh. There's just so many varibles involved thats its a useless figure. 1lb muscle has a few hundred calories from protein contained within it, but the process to create that muscle costs far more protien and energy


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  • #22
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    Meal should have approx 30g of proteins, passing the whole absorption process, average amount which will fall into your system (muscles and so on) will be 30g. These values are average, each organism is different and if you want to check how demanding is your body and how much it can digest I reckon that u should go on testes. At BB and fitness market you'll find supplements - enzymes that are accelerating digestion of proteins/lipids/carbs (up to max 40%). Remember that meal it self must be composed in way that there will be no conflicts between ingredients WTF? Lean meat will have better protein absorption then composed with some fat ingredients. Usually to build muscle mass u must take 2-3g per 1Kg of BM (body mass) (recommended is 2.5g/1KG). If your genes are poor at BB and fitness you won't going to pass them....of course you can bend them via hormones but I'm not sure if that is legal. But if u're hardcore then go to some clinic and do testes.


  • #23
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,980 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    maknak wrote: »
    Meal should have approx 30g of proteins, passing the whole absorption process, average amount which will fall into your system (muscles and so on) will be 30g.
    As was pointed out already that simply isn't true. It's comes from a study of how much is absorbed over a set (short) time period, not total absorbed.


  • #24
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    oki:) but if it's a short time then time of absorption is important too. Proteins and other substances will absorb quicker after workout rather than after normal - doing nothing - meal. There are many studies in relation of after workout absorption. Can I have link of that study?


  • #25
    Hammer Time
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭Hammer Time


    In response to OP. General recommendation to the public 0.8 g/kg mass. However this is only enough to prevent deficiency. For someone performing regular resistance exercise (strength athlete/field sport) then you should be looking at 1.6 -2.2 g/kg body mass.

    So if you weigh 68 kg then you would need 95 - 140 g Pro/day. This is what we need to support muscle synthesis (i.e creation of new protein from individual blocks as UL man alluded to earlier). Beyond the basics of preventing deficiency, high levels of dietary protein ensure that there is enough baseline protein to support synthesis, we also need excess protein in our diets for optimal functioning, including good immune function, metabolism, satiety, weight management and performance.

    The upper limit of what out body can store at one time never increases so there is no point in consuming 150 g in the one go and expecting it to tide you over for the day.

    Can you eat so much that you "piss" it out?..not really. The thermic effect of protein (which the energy your body uses to break down, absorb and store protein) is a lot higher than that of CHO/Fat. 30% of protein's energy (rem Pro = 4 kcal energy) is used for digestion, absorption and assimilation compared with 8% in CHO and 3% for Fat. So a lot of protein's energy is used before it can be converted to fuel or stored as fat.

    Hope this helps.


  • #26
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    Hammer Time wrote: »
    In response to OP. General recommendation to the public 0.8 g/kg mass. However this is only enough to prevent deficiency. For someone performing regular resistance exercise (strength athlete/field sport) then you should be looking at 1.6 -2.2 g/kg body mass.

    The newest researches shows that 2.5-3.0g/1KG of body mass is recommended when you want to build BM. Recommended by most of Pro Bodybuilders.:rolleyes:


  • #27
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,920 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    maknak wrote: »
    Hammer Time wrote: »
    In response to OP. General recommendation to the public 0.8 g/kg mass. However this is only enough to prevent deficiency. For someone performing regular resistance exercise (strength athlete/field sport) then you should be looking at 1.6 -2.2 g/kg body mass.

    The newest researches shows that 2.5-3.0g/1KG of body mass is recommended when you want to build BM. Recommended by most of Pro Bodybuilders.:rolleyes:

    Yeah recommendations by pro bodybuilders doesn't mean much unless you're going to use gear.


  • #28
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 38,980 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    maknak wrote: »
    The newest researches shows that 2.5-3.0g/1KG of body mass is recommended when you want to build BM. Recommended by most of Pro Bodybuilders.:rolleyes:
    Given they have a increased ability to build, it's largely irrelevant for anyone who isn't a pro-BB.
    In fact, its probably gives you an idea of how much protein is excessive without chemical assistance.


  • #29
    Hammer Time
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭Hammer Time


    You could take 2.5 - 3.0 g/kg body mass/day (up to 2.8 g has been shown to be safe).

    If you do decide to take that much you will be neglecting the other macronutrients in the diet, namely carbohydrate and fat both of which are necessary for optimal function.

    I said 1.6 g/kg because I didnt know if the OP played sports or not. If you're training 2+ times per week with a game then you will need to balance the diet with CHO to replenish glycogen stores and thus protein needs to be reduced a little bit to allow extra energy in the diet. If he doesnt play sports then 2.2 g/kg bodyweight if more than enough to stay lean. Comes in at about 40 g Protein per meal for a 200 lb athlete


  • #30
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    Mellor wrote: »
    Given they have a increased ability to build, it's largely irrelevant for anyone who isn't a pro-BB.
    In fact, its probably gives you an idea of how much protein is excessive without chemical assistance.

    What I tried to say is that when you want to go and have an active life style (rugby, fitness, weight lifting) 0.8g/1KG will not help you. If you'll be at bodybuilding (just for yourself) 2-2.5g/1KG is recommended. I read few researches and these values are recommended for runners, rugby players, MMA and all other intensive sports. I knew that you gonna stick to pro bodybuilders and pharma-gear but if you take solutions from the top and try to apply at least 50% of it - it will give you more then some average publication (and then you'll take 50% of it) - get my point?? only 1/100 has some predispositions to be good rugby,mma,fitness,swimmer player and only 1/10000 will be Pro. I'm not try to convince that this is bad and this is wrong but when you copy try copy from the bests - this applys to every field of our life (cars,sport,job) "Every competition needs perfect nutrition" - Dorian Yates.


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