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Extra services for Nenagh branch!

135

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Is nobody in favour of my direct curve in the Dublin direction? It seems so obvious to me but obviously not. :confused:

    Ballybrophy%2B-%2BCopy.JPG

    Not as straight as my red line but in that direction - it's not rocket science and should have been done at the time the last, pointless and expensive rationalisation was done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It all boils down to whether the line has a long term future.

    If it does, then yes of course a facing crossover and ultimately a direct curve should be installed, but at the moment that will all depend on whether the new services prove successful or not.

    Then it will depend on funding availability. A direct curve would not exactly be cheap.

    Personally I'd prefer to spend the money initially on getting the line speed increased.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    rocket science rocks, but did there not used to be a direct curve this side of the tress? It looks as if there might and that alignment might be cheaper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    No - every train stopped at Ballybrophy and reversed directly onto the branch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Jehuty42


    Karsini wrote: »
    Thanks for that, just tried it in the game there. Needlessly complicated.

    Is this your video then?:

    Good demonstration of the manoeuvre.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    What used to happen (before the last remodelling) is the following:

    Branch train would arrive into current branch bay platform. Passengers transferred to Dublin bound train.

    The branch train would then shunt onto the branch, stop, and then reverse directly across the (now removed) connection to the Up main line, across the crossover and into the loop platform and await the arrival of the train from Dublin, before then proceeding back across the crossover and onto the branch for Limerick.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Jehuty42 wrote: »
    Is this your video then?:

    Good demonstration of the manoeuvre.
    It is missing a signal for the shunt from the up mainline onto the branch marked NGF 1.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    lxflyer wrote: »
    No - every train stopped at Ballybrophy and reversed directly onto the branch.

    for all time? or just recently?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jehuty42 wrote: »
    Is this your video then?:

    Good demonstration of the manoeuvre.

    Yep, that's me. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    corktina wrote: »
    rocket science rocks, but did there not used to be a direct curve this side of the tress? It looks as if there might and that alignment might be cheaper.

    No. There was an engine shed there and some sidings based on the old OSI map of the area online.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    corktina wrote: »
    for all time? or just recently?

    Any direct Dublin-Limerick or v.v. service via Nenagh had to stop at Ballybrophy, and the locomotive had to run around the train before proceeding onto/off the branch.

    There was never any connection to the mainline that bypassed the station.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i've got my head around it now. IIRC this was originally the branch to Ballina/Killaloe and was used for an extention to Limerick later, hence the awkward junction


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    corktina wrote: »
    i've got my head around it now. IIRC this was originally the branch to Ballina/Killaloe and was used for an extention to Limerick later, hence the awkward junction

    I actually thought it was part of a scheme on the part of the W&LR to build a route to Dublin which minimised the amount of running they would have to do on the GS&WR lines.

    The W&LR had a fondness for bizarre junctions - their creations also included Limerick Junction and Newcastle West on the North Kerry line, which required a reversal for no sensible reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Would a stop in the vicinity of Castletroy with a shuttlebus to the University and Industrial estates in the area be prohibitively expensive? The location of Colbert train station is a big turn off for potential commuters I'd imagine.
    (Would do up a map but not sure whether they are allowed with this new copyright law. Anyone know the story here?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    I don't know the cost but there was talk a few years ago of closing Castleconnell and opening a new station in Annacotty

    Makes sense realy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Killarney is just mad for the setup there.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    pigtown wrote: »
    Would a stop in the vicinity of Castletroy with a shuttlebus to the University and Industrial estates in the area be prohibitively expensive? The location of Colbert train station is a big turn off for potential commuters I'd imagine.
    (Would do up a map but not sure whether they are allowed with this new copyright law. Anyone know the story here?)

    Good idea, maybe somewhere near the level crossing on the N7?
    Does anybody know why it's such a slow train, I regularly pass it on the cloughjordan-nenagh rd, I reckon it's only doing 35-40 mph.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭pigtown


    I was thinking maybe a stop at the Ballysimon Interchange of the M7 so Lim/Junction trains and N24 traffic can also use it, with a shuttle that takes the motorway to UL/industrial estate, with a possibility of continuing on to a stop near the Parkway, increasing the customer base of the shuttle. I know plenty of students from Ennis that don't take the train because it stops so far from college.

    Just a suggestion to try and make use of the extensive rail lines in the city that have the potential to really make a difference to public transport in Limerick.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Good idea, maybe somewhere near the level crossing on the N7?
    Does anybody know why it's such a slow train, I regularly pass it on the cloughjordan-nenagh rd, I reckon it's only doing 35-40 mph.

    Track quality, the track is very bad in some places. In others it has been renewed but has not been strengthened as it should be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    openstreetmap might be the best option if you're afraid of copyright.

    The line is further than you'd think from UL/Plassey. There's an industrial estate cocked out EAST of the line that makes me want to punch a planner in the face - I can't see what the rationale was when there is still unused lands in the Plassey park etc.

    Ideally the inbound service to Limerick would originate from Portlaoise/Laois Train Care via a direct curve rather than the current turnback system which misses out Roscrea. The problem with a shuttle service is that it would either be dedicated to the train and subject to its delays or part of an existing bus service with the possibility of screwing up its timetable. The trouble is that any money spend should be contingent on the branch continuing to serve for some time to justify the investment and the reality is that given the early signs of the commuter service that is looking less and less likely.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Dublin Spotter


    No point in wasting time talking about the above as the line will be closed by end of the year....people who think otherwise need to wake up and smell the coffee...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    No point in wasting time talking about the above as the line will be closed by end of the year....people who think otherwise need to wake up and smell the coffee...

    Any firm evidence for this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    according to Mark Gleeson the 22000 is slower on the branch than a 27 but the timetable is 10mins less... which (22k slower) makes sense as the gearing is probably more advantageous on a commuter railcar for a route which never gets north of 50mph.

    FIASCO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭pigtown


    dowlingm wrote: »
    openstreetmap might be the best option if you're afraid of copyright.

    The line is further than you'd think from UL/Plassey. There's an industrial estate cocked out EAST of the line that makes me want to punch a planner in the face - I can't see what the rationale was when there is still unused lands in the Plassey park etc.

    That's Annacotty Industrial Estate. I think it might be older than the one at Plassey but can't be sure. Quite successful by all accounts.

    Ideally the inbound service to Limerick would originate from Portlaoise/Laois Train Care via a direct curve rather than the current turnback system which misses out Roscrea. The problem with a shuttle service is that it would either be dedicated to the train and subject to its delays or part of an existing bus service with the possibility of screwing up its timetable. The trouble is that any money spend should be contingent on the branch continuing to serve for some time to justify the investment and the reality is that given the early signs of the commuter service that is looking less and less likely.

    I have attached a map but can't inbed it.

    Solution for shuttle: incorporate it into local service. Have a clockwise and counter-clockwise service.

    Stops clockwise from bottom:
    Ballysimon. M7/N24, Nenagh & Limerick Junction rail services.
    East city (can't think of a name). All of the industrial parks and retail centres on the Ballysimon road.
    Childers Road. Retail park and residential area.
    Parkway. Shopping centre, retail parks, future giant shopping centre (disaster in the making but thats a different story). Ennis/Galway rail services, residential areas.
    University.
    Plassey. National technological park.
    Annacotty. Residential

    Don't know anything about how much it would cost and is probably too expensive but I feel it would offer great coverage for what is a large sprawling suburb with a few major destinations within it.

    Trying to timetable a shuttle service is a little difficult though as while Limerick-L/J trains and vice versa pass the Ballysimon area within 10-15 minutes of each other, Nenagh trains are more random.

    I know crayoning is very easy to do and all sorts of off-the-wall extravagant proposals are often talked about but I don't think this would cost all that much money. Then again I would say that wouldn't I. Anyone who knows more about this sort of thing care to put me straight? Preferably about the logistics of such a development rather than a pessimistic 'it'll never happen, why are you even thinking about it?' response.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,465 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    If anyone wants to get a train to anywhere from the Castletroy side why on earth would they get a shuttle bus and a slow train when they could simply get the city bus and go to the train station. While these are somewhat commendable ideas they will never happen, I can guarantee that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭pigtown


    If anyone wants to get a train to anywhere from the Castletroy side why on earth would they get a shuttle bus and a slow train when they could simply get the city bus and go to the train station. While these are somewhat commendable ideas they will never happen, I can guarantee that.

    Well the idea of the shuttle bus is to increase the catchment area of the rail network. I'm not sure which train you are referring to as a slow train but whatever train they get from the station they could also get by using the shuttle. As it is people are reluctant to get the train to Colbert and then the bus out to Castletroy so this is an alternative.

    Obviously the faster the train is the more likely people are to use it but what I'm trying to do is make people aware of the possibilites there are to utilise the train line more and thus save it from the inevitable closure which seems to be the consensus on here.

    You're probably 100% correct that it will never happen but I just don't understand why officials in either the county/city councils or the Department of Transport have never really explored alternative uses and services that could be provided relatively easily.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    Judgment day, the track you suggest would make more sense if the station was moved a mile or so North, or perhaps Ballybrophy station should be closed, and we could have Portlaoise as the passenger changeover station.

    In any case, direct Dublin-Limerick trains via Nenagh used to run on Sundays back in the 1980s. A direct service should therefore be doable even now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    IE Nenagh "Commuter"
    dep Nenagh 0745 dep Birdhill 0812 dep Castleconnell 0820 arr Limerick 0840
    BE 323 (ex Birr)
    dep Nenagh 0745 dep Birdhill 0800 - runs express - arr Limerick 0835

    Sheer madness. One arm of CIE running head to head with another. The bus which in theory should be more flexible, make more stops bypasses Plassey/Castletroy. What should be is that the northern part of the 323 should deliver Birr/Borrisokane people to meet the train at Nenagh and IE commit to lifting service speed to get into Limerick at 0825-30 to compensate for Limerick Station being a little remote from the city centre.

    EDIT: Incidentally, does anyone know why the Nenagh train holds until 0745 - is it an issue with a slot from Killonan-Limerick?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    A stop as near as possible to Castletroy is a very good idea. I worked in the NIHE (now UL) some years ago, and there is no doubt that academics and visitors to the college tend to shun buses but are inveterate train users. They would leap at the chance to get to/from UL without having to go through central Limerick and then use taxis as at present.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Judgment day, the track you suggest would make more sense if the station was moved a mile or so North, or perhaps Ballybrophy station should be closed, and we could have Portlaoise as the passenger changeover station.

    In any case, direct Dublin-Limerick trains via Nenagh used to run on Sundays back in the 1980s. A direct service should therefore be doable even now.

    Until the 1980s the track layout permitted Dublin-Nenagh-Limerick trains to enter the branch with only one reversal. That track layout no longer exists. Now it needs three very slow reversals as outlined above.

    Solving that would cost €3m (crossover, signalling and interlocking) which frankly would be better spent on upgrading track on the branch in my opinion.


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