Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

To Alcohol · 17-01-2012 5:51pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Sure haven't Kildare got form here?

Kildare have given far more that they've ever got.

hardybuck · 17-01-2012 6:03pm

To Alcohol wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with you there. He was told he wasn't wanted by Cavan and he still feels he has something to offer. What I can make out is he's the one who instigated the whole thing. If he's still good enough and puts the effort in I'm sure McGeeney will consider him. But, there's no guarantees he'll get his place.

Also don't think Kildare will be two worried considering Cork won two All Irelands with their best two players being Kildare men.

The difference with Tomkins was that he moved to Cork first and was picked on the basis of his club form, having being effectively discarded by Kildare. Fahy again moved to Cork first due to work commitments.

Were Kildare's acquisition of Brian Lacey, Karl O'Dwyer and Brian Murphy as straightforward as that?

hardybuck · 17-01-2012 6:06pm

To Alcohol wrote: »

Kildare have given far more that they've ever got.

I'm only aware of two that Kildare lost? Off the top of my head I can remember at least four who joined ye since the 90's period. I'm sure there were others who were lower profile as well.

Gael85 · 17-01-2012 6:30pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I'm only aware of two that Kildare lost? Off the top of my head I can remember at least four who joined ye since the 90's period. I'm sure there were others who were lower profile as well.

Kildare have had a few outsiders,Garvan Ware(Carlow),Gavin Keane(Waterford),Cathal Sheridan(Meath)

kildare9 · 17-01-2012 6:37pm

Jesus you'd swear we were the only team at this? Dublin, Clare, Tipperary and Armagh to just name a few have all had players coming and going from outside counties. As To_Alcohol said, there is no guarantee he'll get his place. A lot of people tend to slate our forward line, there not near as bad as people make them out to be. It will be interesting now if he does move club down here, I'm sure all north Kildare clubs like Maynooth/Celbridge/Straffan/Leixlip, etc will be all mad for snap him up.

Gophur · 17-01-2012 8:25pm

To Alcohol wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with you there. He was told he wasn't wanted by Cavan and he still feels he has something to offer. What I can make out is he's the one who instigated the whole thing. If he's still good enough and puts the effort in I'm sure McGeeney will consider him. But, there's no guarantees he'll get his place.

Also don't think Kildare will be two worried considering Cork won two All Irelands with their best two players being Kildare men.

1. He was told by Val Andrews he was being cut from this year's squad. Andrews feels justified based on Seanie's performance over the past year or two.

2. He may well feel he has something to offer, however, this is the GAA and he is ineligible to play for any county other than Cavan. If he feels he has something to offer then he needs to break his way back into the Cavan squad. There's time for him to make the 2012 team.

3. He instigated the move? I wonder where you got that from? Given the man has absolutely no ties with Kildare, how did he suddenly get an "address"? Did Kildare management make contact with him? What inducements have been made?

Kildare's past included the team of '98 containing Murphy and O'Dwyer, from Cork and Kerry, IIRC? Those lads had reasons to transfer to Kildare, Seanie J doesn't.

elefant · 17-01-2012 8:29pm

If he is living

Originally Posted
That's debateable from the looks of it.

Won't be much use to them if he isn't...

qwerty93 · 17-01-2012 8:40pm

as a kildare man i believe wehave the fowards in the county already and johnston isnt needed. John Doyle , Eamon Callaghan- two players that could start on nearly any team, Alan Smith, James Kacanagh- two players who had poor last seasons but have the quality I believe to step up this season, Tomas O Connor- A pure Beast! a classic big full foward

with the likes of eoin o flaherty , paudie o neill rob kelly, ken donnely and roly sweeny( superb on sunday) and not to mention the lads off the minor team from 2 years ago, i believe the fowards are there but injuries have been a problem! sure havent kildare been one of the highest scoring teams in the championship for the past two years?! Admittedly they miss a lot but the scoreboard is always ticking over!

RickRoll · 17-01-2012 10:18pm

Gophur wrote: »

I think it's really bad form of Kildare GAA to be facilitating such a transfer request.

Seanie is no more entitled to play for Kildare than Gooch Cooper. Facilitating such a transfer is one short step from a professional transfer system, with addresses of convenience being used to circumvent any residency rules.

Well Colm Cooper's mother is from Kildare so you're wrong there.

I would welcome Seanie Johnston with open arms on one condition and that is that he plays for a Kildare club otherwise it wouldn't sit well with me at all. The question I want to know is why Kildare, why not Tyrone? Armagh? Meath? Methinks McGeeney had some part in all of this.

Johnston is a brilliant footballer although he has been hampered by injury in recent years. He's a top class free taker and this is a major weakness of this current Kildare team, as good as JD is he can be very inconsistent with free taking.

Kieran McGeeney is well known for his loyalty towards players so if Johnston does get the go ahead to declare for the Lily's he most certainly will not walk onto the team, he will have to impress in training like everyone else.

My Kildare 15 v Offaly

Connolly

McGrillen
Foley
Kelly
Bolton
Morgan O' Flaherty
Conway

Flynn
Early/Lynch (Lynch if Early isn't fit)

Kavanagh
Eoghan O' Flaherty
Callaghan
Johnston
O' Connor
Doyle

What a team

largepants · 17-01-2012 10:30pm

hardybuck wrote: »

The difference with Tomkins was that he moved to Cork first and was picked on the basis of his club form, having being effectively discarded by Kildare. Fahy again moved to Cork first due to work commitments.

Were Kildare's acquisition of Brian Lacey, Karl O'Dwyer and Brian Murphy as straightforward as that?

Effectively discarded by Kildare? With the greatest of respect you know that is not true. Tompkins knew well what he was doing. And could Fahy not still have played with Kildare even though he lived in Cork? Didn't some of the Kerry greats of the 75-86 live in Dublin while playing with their their own?

You claim Fahy moved due to work committments yet cast doubt on Lacey, O'Dwyer and Murphys transfers? Could they have not been due to work committments?

In fact I'll question your overall view on Kildare GAA. I get the distinct impression that other factors might cloud your view on the Seanie Saga.

Gophur · 17-01-2012 11:57pm

RickRoll wrote: »

Well Colm Cooper's mother is from Kildare so you're wrong there.

...............

Yep, Seanie has a hell of a lot less right to declare for Kildare than Gooch.

It's obvious background moves were made to facilitate all of this and I'd guess Seanie will not be out of pocket if there are costs involved.

It's a pity Kildare have to resort to such tactics to try to win something.

As for Seanie? What's the kudos in doing what he's doing? He wouldn't put in the effor for Cavan, why would he do it for someone else?

For the good of the game let's hope this transfer is rejected out of hand.

RickRoll · 18-01-2012 12:33am

Gophur wrote: »

Yep, Seanie has a hell of a lot less right to declare for Kildare than Gooch.

It's obvious background moves were made to facilitate all of this and I'd guess Seanie will not be out of pocket if there are costs involved.

It's a pity Kildare have to resort to such tactics to try to win something.

As for Seanie? What's the kudos in doing what he's doing? He wouldn't put in the effor for Cavan, why would he do it for someone else?

For the good of the game let's hope this transfer is rejected out of hand.

Oh for God's sake cop on will you, Kildare aren't the first and certainly won't be the last team to have an "outsider" on their team.

As for Seanie? What's the kudos in doing what he's doing?He wouldn't put in the effor for Cavan, why would he do it for someone else?

He said himself he would love nothing more than to play for Cavan but Mr. Andrews does not want him or indeed another good player in Michael Lyng. Do you expect him to sit around twiddling his tumbs waiting for a call from Andrews? If nothing else he's shown a bit of ambition in looking to play IC football for a county that wants him.

I agree with you that he was more than likely approached by somebody from the Kildare CB or someone associated with Kildare GAA, but so what? I don't see the problem. If Brendan Murphy of Carlow or Donal Shine of Roscommon announced they were not wanted by their counties they would be inundated with calls from lots of counties no doubt about it.

hardybuck · 18-01-2012 12:56am

largepants wrote: »

Effectively discarded by Kildare? With the greatest of respect you know that is not true. Tompkins knew well what he was doing. And could Fahy not still have played with Kildare even though he lived in Cork? Didn't some of the Kerry greats of the 75-86 live in Dublin while playing with their their own?

You claim Fahy moved due to work committments yet cast doubt on Lacey, O'Dwyer and Murphys transfers? Could they have not been due to work committments?

In fact I'll question your overall view on Kildare GAA. I get the distinct impression that other factors might cloud your view on the Seanie Saga.

I actually don't have any strong feelings on Kildare either way, but I do know they actively 'welcome' players in situations like this. Others don't. What other factors do you believe might 'cloud' my view!?

Why did Kildare stop paying for Tomkin's flights home so he could play for Kildare? You probably have some more insight than I.

Also, with the greatest of respect, Kildare were terrible in this era. We're looking back at a time when Tomkin's and Fahy might have got one game a summer with Kildare.

Kerry players coming home from Dublin in the 75-86 era were legends playing in one of the best teams of all time. Their names and their families will be revered in their communities as legends. Also, the Dubs wouldn't accept an outsider on their footballers!

I'm not on some big anti Kildare agenda, but I don't like to see lads moving around in this fashion. Fair enough if you move for work reasons and play in the local club scene. This is on the same level as the Thomas Walsh farce.

RickRoll · 18-01-2012 1:11am

hardybuck wrote: »

Also, the Dubs wouldn't accept an outsider on their footballers!

That's funny. Declan Darcy, does he ring a bell???

Red Crow · 18-01-2012 1:55am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I couldnt possibly comment, but lets see how it works out in practice if he truly is living literally full time in Kildare with the scenario of no overnights at all in Cavan.

He's working in Cavan town as a teacher in Cavan College. Not on flexitime so would have to be in Cavan at 9am.
From Straffan that's a 1h40min drive via Edgeworthstown costing approx 20euro incl the motorway toll each way.
So return you're looking at a daily commute of 3h20min driving and 40euro according to viamichelin.
And you'd be looking at getting up at 6.30am every day in order to be out the door in time to make it to Cavan at 9am and not back till about 6 in the evening.
A midweek training for the Gaels after school would mean him not getting back to Kildare till about midnight and have to get up again the next morning for school.

Adding it up thats 16h 40min in total of commuting over a 5 day week costing 200euro weekly in petrol alone not counting the depreciation or wear and tear that 1300km PER WEEK would cost you.

In addition. Seanie would be travelling home to his team Cavan Gaels (where he is the captain) at the weekend for training/ matches.
That's another round trip of 260km and 3h20min spent in the car to have him back "home" in Kildare the same day that brings his total mileage to approx 1560km a week.

With 16 weeks between Sept 1 and 22nd Dec less one midterm, thats 23,400km that Seanie is telling us that he has travelled due him living in Kildare. And 3000 euro in petrol just to get to his job in the school in Cavan from Kildare!
(you'd assume the €40 odd for the 6th trip per week would be paid by the gaels - his commitment to living in Kildare makes the 3grand he pays from his own pocket a small price to pay....)

Now.....
aside from the 3 grand cost of commuting to and from Cavan for work (and letting the gaels pay any football expenses) are we to believe that he is really living in Kildare when 6 days a week when he has work/ football in Cavan town to attend to?

I could go on and chop and change and give different scenarios.
But even the minimum amount of nights a week necessary to have it that the majority of your time is in a certain place, 4 out of 7 nights, assuming the gaels cover 2 of the trips thats still 1500 euro spent on commuting since christmas out of his own pocket and an awful lot of driving that he is asking us to believe he is making.

If he really is that committed to Kildare then he deserves to play for them, but a man with that possesses and demonstrates that sort of unworldly motivation surely would be interested in proving he is deserving of getting his place back on the Cavan team you would think!

Didn't realise he still worked in Cavan. It said on Newstalk and KFM Radio that he lives in Straffan.

The Straffan address was given on official transfer request form and thats probably where the papers have picked it up. Maybe he owns a house or has a relative there. Surely that can't be right though.

Syferus · 18-01-2012 2:25am

Gophur wrote: »

1. He was told by Val Andrews he was being cut from this year's squad. Andrews feels justified based on Seanie's performance over the past year or two.

2. He may well feel he has something to offer, however, this is the GAA and he is ineligible to play for any county other than Cavan. If he feels he has something to offer then he needs to break his way back into the Cavan squad. There's time for him to make the 2012 team.

3. He instigated the move? I wonder where you got that from? Given the man has absolutely no ties with Kildare, how did he suddenly get an "address"? Did Kildare management make contact with him? What inducements have been made?

Kildare's past included the team of '98 containing Murphy and O'Dwyer, from Cork and Kerry, IIRC? Those lads had reasons to transfer to Kildare, Seanie J doesn't.

Eh? If he really wants to switch to Kildare then he can, indeed the whole situation is far too murky to make that assertion even at this moment.

No one particularly likes seeing players switch allegiances, but if a player is set on it there's really no point making out trying with his old team is even really an option.

I'd have zero problems with my county offering Kevin Cassidy a chance to play if he were to stay frozen out in Donegal, for a purely hypothetical example. There's no advantage to anyone to have inter-county class players sitting at home, we want to see the best players in the country playing.

largepants · 18-01-2012 9:32am

hardybuck wrote: »

I actually don't have any strong feelings on Kildare either way, but I do know they actively 'welcome' players in situations like this. Others don't. What other factors do you believe might 'cloud' my view!?

Why did Kildare stop paying for Tomkin's flights home so he could play for Kildare? You probably have some more insight than I.

Also, with the greatest of respect, Kildare were terrible in this era. We're looking back at a time when Tomkin's and Fahy might have got one game a summer with Kildare.

Kerry players coming home from Dublin in the 75-86 era were legends playing in one of the best teams of all time. Their names and their families will be revered in their communities as legends. Also, the Dubs wouldn't accept an outsider on their footballers!

I'm not on some big anti Kildare agenda, but I don't like to see lads moving around in this fashion. Fair enough if you move for work reasons and play in the local club scene. This is on the same level as the Thomas Walsh farce.

I might argue that Cork 'welcome' players the same way as Kildare do. Very few counties have not had any outsiders including the Dubs. You claim that Kildare were terrible in this era and that Fahy and Tompkins might have got one game. It seems to me by that statement that it was considered fair enough for them to move to Cork because Kildare were sh1te. Then in your last paragraph you don't want to see lads moving around in this fashion.I could go on about other aspects of your post but honestly I haven't got all day. Just wish you'd acknowledge the fact that other counties as well as Kildare have had outsiders on their team.Just as a little aside, I couldn't care less if Johnston did or didn't play with Kildare. I'm not sure he is good enough anymore anyway.

Frank Spencer · 18-01-2012 10:07am

RickRoll wrote: »

That's funny. Declan Darcy, does he ring a bell???

Declan Darcy was born and raised in Dublin.

hardybuck · 18-01-2012 10:14am

largepants wrote: »

I might argue that Cork 'welcome' players the same way as Kildare do. Very few counties have not had any outsiders including the Dubs. You claim that Kildare were terrible in this era and that Fahy and Tompkins might have got one game. It seems to me by that statement that it was considered fair enough for them to move to Cork because Kildare were sh1te. Then in your last paragraph you don't want to see lads moving around in this fashion.I could go on about other aspects of your post but honestly I haven't got all day. Just wish you'd acknowledge the fact that other counties as well as Kildare have had outsiders on their team.Just as a little aside, I couldn't care less if Johnston did or didn't play with Kildare. I'm not sure he is good enough anymore anyway.

I never had a problem acknowledging that other counties accept players, but in genuine circumstances, and it happens very rarely. Kildare just seem to have had far more people coming in than others.

This situation with Johnson could set a nasty precedent. I'm sure if he moved to Kildare, maybe went away and played some club football for a year and tried again nobody would be too put out.

hardybuck · 18-01-2012 10:17am

RickRoll wrote: »

That's funny. Declan Darcy, does he ring a bell???

It is funny. I do remember a Declan Darcy who grew up in Sandymount, D4. Originally played for Clanna Gael, then transferred to his fathers club in Leitrim where he played illegaly for years as he had no residence there. His father would drive them up there for games as a lad.

He then transferred back home to Dublin after all the mileage took its toll and Leitrim had begun to fall apart.

Are we on about the same Declan Darcy? Does any of that ring a bell???

Tombo2000 · 18-01-2012 10:25am

Frank Spencer wrote: »

Declan Darcy was born and raised in Dublin.

Ryan O'Dwyer.

Ye might have Cha signing up to, you'd never know.....

Gophur · 18-01-2012 10:34am

Syferus wrote: »

Eh? If he really wants to switch to Kildare then he can, ...........

Not under the current rules. He has no links to Kildare.

hardybuck · 18-01-2012 10:37am

Tombo2000 wrote: »

Ryan O'Dwyer.

Ye might have Cha signing up to, you'd never know.....

Ah yeah, the hurling team is about 20% outsiders who've moved in, but it was generally seen as a good thing for the game as it brought Dublin into the top tier and improved its profile.

Different rules for weaker hurling counties as well, which teams like Kildare regularly avail of. They'd have got a good few lads from the likes of Tipp and others.

Gophur · 18-01-2012 10:38am

RickRoll wrote: »

Oh for God's sake cop on will you, Kildare aren't the first and certainly won't be the last team to have an "outsider" on their team.

He said himself he would love nothing more than to play for Cavan but Mr. Andrews does not want him or indeed another good player in Michael Lyng. Do you expect him to sit around twiddling his tumbs waiting for a call from Andrews? If nothing else he's shown a bit of ambition in looking to play IC football for a county that wants him.

I agree with you that he was more than likely approached by somebody from the Kildare CB or someone associated with Kildare GAA, but so what? I don't see the problem. If Brendan Murphy of Carlow or Donal Shine of Roscommon announced they were not wanted by their counties they would be inundated with calls from lots of counties no doubt about it.

Why are you asking me to "cop on"?

It has nothing to do with "outsiders". If Seanie J was eligible to transfer, then let him go. In this case, he cannot transfer, without tearing up the rule book.

If this transfer is allowed then we will effectively have a transfer system similar to other sports, where players can move wherever they want and any county can approach any player to get him to play for them.

The situation is kind of ironic given the number of players that transferred to Seanie's own club over the past while.

Frank Spencer · 18-01-2012 11:21am

Tombo2000 wrote: »

Ryan O'Dwyer.

Ye might have Cha signing up to, you'd never know.....

The point was referring to the footballers.

Tombo2000 · 18-01-2012 11:25am

Frank Spencer wrote: »

The point was referring to the footballers.

I know that, but Dublin doesnt need to poach footballers as the county has a massive pool of talent and has more than enough good footballers to compete, and always has done.

Thats not the case in Dublin hurling; and the Dublin hurlers consequently have not been shy about taking players from other counties.

Hammer Archer · 18-01-2012 11:29am

Tombo2000 wrote: »

Ryan O'Dwyer.

Ye might have Cha signing up to, you'd never know.....

Why are you using an example of a player who is living, working and playing with a club in Dublin

This has nothing to do with Seanie Johnston's transfer. If he wanted to transfer to Kildare and was living and playing there and at least working nearby, there would be no problem. As it stands though, he "has an address" in Kildare (note, I don't think I've seen anywhere say he actually lives permanently in Kildare), works almost two hours away in Cavan and still plays with his club in Cavan.
No one has a problem with intercounty transfers done by the book, but as Gophur said, if this transfer goes through, the rules will have gone out the window,

keane2097 · 18-01-2012 11:37am

There's clearly a personal relationship issue between Val Andrews and Johnston which clouds this issue.

If Johnston had been left off the Cavan panel for pure football reasons it wouldn't be an issue because if he wasn't good enough for Cavan no one else would be looking for him either. Johnston is undoubtedly one of the very best footballers in Cavan, but can't play for the county team due to a personality clash with a man who is after all an outsider.

I understand the worry about the sort of precedents being set and find it a bit of a tough spot to make up my mind on tbh, but it does always strike me that an amateur player shouldn't be forced to play in a setup he doesn't like just because of an accident of birth.

If anything I think the GAA needs to do a review of the whole area of IC transfers, because the country is getting smaller all the time and this sort of thing is something I wouldn't be surprised to see more of.

Gophur · 18-01-2012 11:53am

Tombo2000 wrote: »

I know that, but Dublin doesnt need to poach footballers as the county has a massive pool of talent and has more than enough good footballers to compete, and always has done.

Thats not the case in Dublin hurling; and the Dublin hurlers consequently have not been shy about taking players from other counties.

Did the Dublin Co Chairman not suggest that any players transferring to Dublin Clubs should transfer their inter-county allegiance to Dublin, also?

Seanie's problem with Cavan seems to stem from his unwillingness to play for the team. It's entirely the manager's prerogative to select such an "individual".

As for a player whose first reaction is to go looking for another county, rather than knuckle down with his own? It doesn't show Seanie up in a good light.

Better players than him have been dropped, but knuckled down and got back. If he has a problem with Andrews, then let him get a third party to make a representation on his behalf.

Andrews, on the other hand, has a a problem with discipline in his squad. This is a test of him too.

Lemlin · 18-01-2012 12:16pm

Gophur wrote: »

Did the Dublin Co Chairman not suggest that any players transferring to Dublin Clubs should transfer their inter-county allegiance to Dublin, also?

Seanie's problem with Cavan seems to stem from his unwillingness to play for the team. It's entirely the manager's prerogative to select such an "individual".

As for a player whose first reaction is to go looking for another county, rather than knuckle down with his own? It doesn't show Seanie up in a good light.

Better players than him have been dropped, but knuckled down and got back. If he has a problem with Andrews, then let him get a third party to make a representation on his behalf.

Andrews, on the other hand, has a a problem with discipline in his squad. This is a test of him too.

Well said. Couldn't have put it better than this myself.

Seanie has been a fantastic servant to Cavan football. There were days like against Wicklow two years ago when he came off the bench and saved the entire team with a virtuoso display. The Wicklow people could only laugh at a few of the points he scored they were that good.

Last year though, Seanie and a number of players were told, towards the latter end of the year when the new season was nowhere near starting, that they were no longer required by the Cavan team for the following year. To me, Andrews was sending out a message.

The last three managers of Cavan - Martin McElhennon, Donal Keoghan and Tommy Carr - have all commented on attitude problems within the camp. The problem was previously that Cavan had no new players coming through to fill the gap if the so-called 'problem' players were kicked out of the panel. That changed last year with the success of the U21 and minor teams.

Andrews started the cull at senior level last year after the League. He brought in a huge number of the U21s. It now looks like he is continuing the cull. Out with the old, in with the new.

Its not just young players he's bringing in either. A number of older players, in the 24+ age bracket, have been brought in. They mightn't be particularly skillful but from seeing these lads at club level, they aren't primadonnas and are lads who play their hearts out week-in, week out for their club teams and I'd imagine will do the same for their county.

I've supported Andrews from the start and continue to. I think Johnston would have been better bide his time because either Andrews will be successful this year get another year, or the county will flop again and he'll be out on his ear. In which case, Seanie will be able to come back into the fold for the next manager to give him a chance.

Either way, no player is bigger than their county and, based on last year's performances, I'd be more worried about Niall McDermott or Eugene Keating (Cavan's best footballer last year IMO) moving counties than Sean Johnston.

Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

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