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No payment for sick leave

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  • 25-03-2014 10:25pm
    #1
    boo84
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭


    Since the start of this year, my employer will not pay us for any sick days we take. In previous years we were allowed to take a certain amount of sick days per year with pay. He is now deducting sick days taken from our annual leave. Is this allowed? Any help would be appreciated.


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    #2
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    boo84 wrote: »
    Since the start of this year, my employer will not pay us for any sick days we take. In previous years we were allowed to take a certain amount of sick days per year with pay. He is now deducting sick days taken from our annual leave. Is this allowed? Any help would be appreciated.

    No this is not allowed..
    They don't have to pay you for them, but they cannot subtract them from your holiday allowance.


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    #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,669 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Hang on: they cannot force you to use annual leave. They should be simply not paying you as the first option - but it is generally ok to let you choose to take annual leave (provided you get the opportunity to take two weeks a/l continuously in the year).

    There may be an issue if you contract said that you were entitled to sick pay - or if some sort of "custom and practise" applies - but to know about that you need to talk to a lawyer.


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    #4
    bladebrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭bladebrew


    In my last job they didn't pay anything, if we didn't work we didn't get paid, we just worked back the time off in overtime, taking it off your annual leave sounds dodgy as hell!
    I assume the only other option if you don't do overtime is to be deducted pay for the days not worked?


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    #5
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Check your contract. If sick pay is in your contract, it sounds like he is breaking your contract, and thus you may need to talk to solicitor who specializes in employment law.


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    #6
    murphym7
    Registered Users Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭murphym7


    the_syco wrote: »
    Check your contract. If sick pay is in your contract, it sounds like he is breaking your contract, and thus you may need to talk to solicitor who specializes in employment law.

    I’d be surprised if there are many employers that wouldn’t use the phrase “At the companies discretion, sick pay may be paid”. This is usually put in to avoid paying for serial abuser of the sick pay policy.


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    #7
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Sick pay is not an entitlement. Very few employers pay this as it encourages absenteeism.

    Has your employer specifically told you that he is deducting sick days from your holiday entitlement? Check your contract, if it says you need a sick cert from your GP for any absences over 3 days, without that cert you are absent without leave.


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    #8
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    davo10 wrote: »
    Sick pay is not an entitlement. Very few employers pay this as it encourages absenteeism.

    Has your employer specifically told you that he is deducting sick days from your holiday entitlement? Check your contract, if it says you need a sick cert from your GP for any absences over 3 days, without that cert you are absent without leave.
    No matter what the contract says...
    Sick days cannot be deducted from Annual Leave entitlements.

    Now, I know situations where employees/employers "come to an arrangement" when there is an issue with uncertified sick days and employees forfeit some annual leave..
    I would strongly advise against this practice, if nothing else you are essentially saying that you were in the wrong and had no genuine reason to be off work.
    If your sick your sick, its not annual leave.


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    #9
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,669 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    bbam wrote: »
    I would strongly advise against this practice, if nothing else you are essentially saying that you were in the wrong and had no genuine reason to be off work.
    If your sick your sick, its not annual leave.

    And I would strongly recommend it, because you're saying "the money I get from this job is important to me, I don't want to go unpaid".

    How you use your annual leave is up to you - recovering from illness is a perfectly valid option.

    And in the vast majority of jobs, a days pay is workth a lot more than a days Illness Benefit.


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    #10
    Frynge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Frynge


    Sick leave supersedes annual leave aswell. So if you are finishing work on a Friday for two weeks leave but come down with an illness on the Thursday that lasts 1 week your doctors cert covers upto the following Thursday. When you go back to work you have only used 7 days annual leave instead of the 10 you originally planned to make use of. Since you were sick for your annual leave it doesn't make sence to use your annual leave to cover sick days.


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    #11
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,669 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Frynge wrote: »
    Sick leave supersedes annual leave aswell. So if you are finishing work on a Friday for two weeks leave but come down with an illness on the Thursday that lasts 1 week your doctors cert covers upto the following Thursday. When you go back to work you have only used 7 days annual leave instead of the 10 you originally planned to make use of. Since you were sick for your annual leave it doesn't make sence to use your annual leave to cover sick days.

    You're missing my point, though, about gettign paid for the time.


    You example really happened to me: I had two weeks leave over Christmas, and came down sick on the 2nd day.

    If I'd gone to the doctor, then I probably would have got a cert for a week.

    My choices:

    Go to the doctor and pay E50 to get a cert, take it in to work and tell them "sorry I wasn't really on annual leave, I was on sick leave". They would have
    - not paid me for five days
    - recorded me as being out sick for five days
    I would not have got illness benefit 'cos it only kicks in after six days,
    and I would still be owed 5 days annual leave. Except that our carry-over policy says I'm only allowed to carry 3 days between leave years and I was already doing that - so technically I would have lost the leave days because I didn't use them.

    Or


    Don't spend E50 going to the doctor.
    Spend my annual leave more gently than I'd originally planned, including a couple of days in bed.
    Get paid my normal salary for the full time.


    It seems like a no brainer, really.


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