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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    That's a good point actually. I'd wonder if Mogeely is just that bit too far from Castlemartyr to pick up trade, as it were. Either way, you'd have people driving to the station.

    The one thing they could do around here, that would impact on biggest amount of patrons would be to sort out the Horgans Quay thing-a station facing the river would land you from platform to Pana much faster.


    Is this debate a little surreal?

    There are suburbs of Dublin with 30 times the population but no heavy rail.

    Ditto Cork, Galway and Limerick. The focus on inter-city in this forum is madness. Proper commuter rail and lots of it is the future.

    When trains are competing with road on inter-city, they are competing with cars travelling at 120 km/hr. When competing in cities, the road traffic is travelling at 50 km/hr.

    for inter-city the bus is faster.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    Well, Youghal is commuter, but is well OT here, (sorry, Vic). You cite a lack of commuter rail for Cork, among other places, which is precisely what this tangent is getting at. Even now, Cork fares much better rail wise than some other places. Waterford-Wexford for example.

    Anyway, getting back to the WRC-my feeling is that while I love to see new shiny rail, there's little point if it's not sustainable.

    143 level crossings, and over two hours travel time has killed this worthy project off before it even gets started. In my view.

    Couple that with IEs seeming inability to promote or capitalise on the infrastructure they have, and things are bleak.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Godge wrote: »
    Is this debate a little surreal?

    There are suburbs of Dublin with 30 times the population but no heavy rail.

    Ditto Cork, Galway and Limerick. The focus on inter-city in this forum is madness. Proper commuter rail and lots of it is the future.

    When trains are competing with road on inter-city, they are competing with cars travelling at 120 km/hr. When competing in cities, the road traffic is travelling at 50 km/hr.

    for inter-city the bus is faster.

    I understand your confusion.

    But don't worry. The guys over at Rail Users Ireland are, apparently, very happy that the line has been reopened.

    So it should all become clear - sooner or later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    the real problem with trains like this and the type of "local politics" we see is that most decisions get done behind closed doors, this type of investmnet should be out in the open and open to all to scrutnise, in the us local tv channels show project reviews etc. and this brings more light on decisions made,

    For the WRC to have a a chance it would have ahd to,

    1. drop you right off at the door of shannon airport,
    2. drop you right at the door of UCHG hosipitial,
    3. go right by shannon airport,
    4. go right by galway airport,
    5. go right by ballibrit, parkmor industrial est, etc,
    6. no tain switiching at athenry etc.

    currently this government is subsiding,

    air travel between, major cities and dublin,
    irish rail,
    bus eireann,

    so either get real and give rail a chance, drop the airplanes internally, drop the buses on inter city limit them to town and local area's, and get fast trains,

    then the trains might fill up,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    So you are saying that to fill the trains we need to drop the cheaper faster competitiors? Well maybe we should drop the trains too and get Neddy and his old cart out again....:rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    I thought 143 crossings was a typo! Jesus.

    Are they all (or most) automatic then?

    Did the topography or budget rule out a new routing from North of Gort to Oranmore, and an increase in line speed along the line in general? (Some of the IRN community quote speeds of 25 mph in sections!)

    Apologies if these have been answered elsewhere, but this seems crazy. The line can never hope to compete with journey times as long as they are.

    What is all this nonsense about 143 level crossings on the WRC? That figure would include all accomodation crossings which have no bearing on anything - they are not monitored/manned/train crew operated or barrier controlled and have no impact on anything except the extremely rare accident. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    Um., the figure was quoted here, and elsewhere, and by some doctor involved in the project (cba googling).

    A crossing is a crossing, has to be accounted for in terms of line speed, costs, etc. It all complicates the matter of decreasing journey time, which was my initial point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    A Dr. Lynch; http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0330/1224267342690.html

    He seems to think that that amount of crossings aren't an issue!


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    If its known at political level that 22ks are heading to the WRC, then that explains why WOT and the political set have been so accepting of whats currently on offer.

    In fairness, they also bought off WOT/FF with the promise of a new station in the sprawling Metropolis of Crusheen.

    The whisper is that the 22ks will be taken from a Heuston-based commuter route.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    now that this western rail corridor(sounds like a Quality Bus Corridor) is open is anyone actually using it? has anyone got any figures or even stories of being on this service?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16 technoman


    Would a line extension to Shannon airport be possible in the future as it is only 10km from the western rail corridor? It would have to merge onto the line and maybe split with one half going to limerick and the other going to Galway. The majority of US bound flights leave and arrive at the same time so with proper timetabling I think the train could attract a decent crowd. I do realize there are buses like every hour or whatever but I really do perfer rail even if it's just because you get a table and a toilet on board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    strassenwo!f - where is your comment about RUI coming from? They have serious concerns.

    "Dr Lynch revealed there had been 143 level crossings on the 36-mile Limerick to Galway route" - that reads as past tense to me, presumably at least a few were closed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    These so-called level crossings (most of which are farm crossings) have no effect on line speeds or anything else - what do you think happens, that the train slows down approaching every crossing. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭FlameoftheWest


    Just the latest conspiracy theory backed by a minority of scientists who don't see eye to eye with the now established scientific majority consensus. Its a case of believe what you want to but I'll stick with the majority. ;)

    I am touched by religious devotion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭schween


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    now that this western rail corridor(sounds like a Quality Bus Corridor) is open is anyone actually using it? has anyone got any figures or even stories of being on this service?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0402/1224267546081.html

    There doesn't seem to be too many on this train. That said it was the 06.40 train. With time hopefully it will improve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭FlameoftheWest


    schween wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0402/1224267546081.html

    There doesn't seem to be too many on this train. That said it was the 06.40 train. With time hopefully it will improve.

    It won't improve to any real degree until there is a station/passing loop/new signalling/P&R at Oranmore which should of been Stage One of this project.

    Neither WestonTrack and their moronic braindead trainspotter lapdogs ever considered Oranmore a priority (if even at all) as this WoT "Community Campaign" was only about getting one more rail line into Claremorris and nothing else. It's always been about Mayo and I suspect that deep inside that the WoT committee are completely unhappy this section got built first as this is hardly much better than PaleRail to their "Mayo or Nothing" GAA county jersey patriotism mindset.

    They never gave a damn about public transport only the Mayo Parish Pump and now we are seeing the horrific results 100M euro down the crapper and no station on the main commuter town on the route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    dowlingm wrote: »
    strassenwo!f - where is your comment about RUI coming from? They have serious concerns.

    Yeah, I've read the press release. There is absolutely nothing positive in it apart from the opening seven or eight words.

    If there was an annual "damning with faint praise" award that release would have already clinched the 2010 gong.

    They've been against the reopening for several years, with (in my opinion) very good reasons.

    So why the doublespeak? "We're pleased to welcome this but we have serious concern A, serious concern B,...serious concern Z, etc."

    They have valid concerns about the route, and the success (or probable lack of success) of the WRC will - I feel sure - have an impact on rail investment in the future.

    They should have called a spade a spade on this one, and - by announcing that they were pleased to welcome it - they patently didn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    Well the important thing is we now have a piece of infrastructure that can develop in the coming years. It might not be 100% fantastic in its operation now but consider the role it could play in years to come. The presence of a rail line may encourage development in these areas. Transport links are important in allowing cities to develop. People called the DART a white elephant when it came in. Granted it had more passengers than the WRC does in its first week but maybe the WRC has a long term role in the development of the region.

    It also may play a role n freight operations as well, even if that is not a big traffic now there is nothing to say it won't have grown again a few years down the road. Basically I'm saying we need to look at how the WRC may be an investment with long term dividends rather than short term ones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭FlameoftheWest


    Well the important thing is we now have a piece of infrastructure that can develop in the coming years. It might not be 100% fantastic in its operation now but consider the role it could play in years to come. The presence of a rail line may encourage development in these areas. Transport links are important in allowing cities to develop. People called the DART a white elephant when it came in. Granted it had more passengers than the WRC does in its first week but maybe the WRC has a long term role in the development of the region.

    The only people who called the DART a Green Elephant was a handful of the same moron establishment goon economists behind NAMA. Everyone else at the time were begging for the DART to happen as the previous terrible commuter rail system along Dublin Bay was bursting at the seams. There was a huge demand for the DART. Everyone wanted it to happen. Passenger projection numbers were blown out of the water in the first month. Even on off peak serivce there were no 90% empty trains which is the pasenger loadings for Peak Hour service on your beloved WRC. Oh wiat, it's Holy Week, Month, Year, Decade, Century... I keep forgetting. Need to be more sensitive to local customs in Gort.

    I think you are right about the developing the WRC as it is now. Things can be done to make it work. The problem is that people like you and WestonTrack will kill the potential by using phrases such as "WRC has a long term role in the development of the region." which is the reason why there is NO SHORT TERM DEVELOPMENT OF A STATION AT ORANMORE...

    Do you see the problem?


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    I think you are right about the developing the WRC as it is now. Things can be done to make it work. The problem is that people like you and WestonTrack will kill the potential by using phrases such as "WRC has a long term role in the development of the region." which is the reason why there is NO SHORT TERM DEVELOPMENT OF A STATION AT ORANMORE...

    Do you see the problem?

    I agree there should be a station at Oranmore. Hopefully there will be, although to be honest I don't think WestOnTrack can blamed for what is a least in part a planning issue. It makes sense, and would allow the WRC to partly function as an outersuburban service as well as a regional/Intercity one.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭FlameoftheWest


    I agree there should be a station at Oranmore. Hopefully there will be, although to be honest I don't think WestOnTrack can blamed for what is a least in part a planning issue. It makes sense, and would allow the WRC to partly function as an outersuburban service as well as a regional/Intercity one.

    There was a rail users group who mentioned on here they personally begged WoT to make Oranmore a priority and thet were politely told to "feck off back to Dublin this is not your business."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    There was a rail users group who mentioned on here they personally begged WoT to make Oranmore a priority and thet were politely told to "feck off back to Dublin this is not your business."

    Not begged. Proposed/asked that they work with us on the Galway Suburban idea. If I recall correctly there was also a Claremorris Mayo link type idea in there as well.

    The response wasn't quite feck off, it was more a case of us being told that WOT are only interested in getting the WRC opened and nothing else.

    That was May 2005 in Castlebar.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    These so-called level crossings (most of which are farm crossings) have no effect on line speeds or anything else - what do you think happens, that the train slows down approaching every crossing. :confused:

    Then what accounts for the ludicrously long journey time (aside from the run into Galway), grades, curves on the line etc?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    These so-called level crossings (most of which are farm crossings) have no effect on line speeds or anything else
    No chance of them leaving gates open, leaving livestock get onto the line...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    As far as I know the presence of accomodation crossings has no bearing on line speeds but I'm happy to be corrected on this point. The WRC line speeds are more to do with the undulating nature of the route, curves etc.etc. and of course CIE/IE's failure to put in sufficient passing loops. Anyway you'll be glad to hear that I am going to refrain from further comment until I visit the line - hopefully next week.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    I'll look forward to that. I'm being genuine btw, I can't fathom why they didn't go the whole hog on it, and it has a big bearing on present and future infrastructure as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I can't fathom why they didn't go the whole hog on it, and it has a big bearing on present and future infrastructure as well.
    Because they got as much money as they knew they could ask for, 100m Euro. IE capital funding comes from government at the end of the day. If Dempsey and Lenihan handed Dick Fearn double or triple that, you could have 100mph 22K service on an double track alignment. He got what WoT promised service could be reinstated for and the priests and "chained officials" agitated for, which was enough for a "coat of paint".

    [Edit: Clonsilla-Dunboyne is EUR160m for 15 track-kilometres - and 12 of that was to buy land previously sold, apparently]


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    It won't improve to any real degree until there is a station/passing loop/new signalling/P&R at Oranmore which should of been Stage One of this project.

    +1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    KevR wrote: »
    +1

    plans are for a single playform at Oranmore so no passing loop i guess


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    dowlingm wrote: »
    [Edit: Clonsilla-Dunboyne is EUR160m for 15 track-kilometres - and 12 of that was to buy land previously sold, apparently]
    That includes 3-4 stations, a huge amount of car parking and a bunch of new bridges.

    And at least part of it is being paid for by developers.


This discussion has been closed.
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