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Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    christ i leave this place for a day so i can bring all my wonderful passengers home and what do i see, alot of anti -bus posts.

    right folks you go on about so what if we have to commute everyone does it, here i go again.
    all of you take heed and read carefully.

    you live on the southside and work near the airport ,got that ok?

    now you have to drive to near the airport from the southside leave your car wherever you want to park, got that ok?

    your job are now changing your working conditions because they want you to finish in town ,got that ok?

    now INSTEAD of commuting home from town to the southside,( remember you finished in town) have you got that bit ok?

    you must travel all the way further out/opposite of where you live to collect your car, are ye all with me now?

    then at last make your way home through town about an hour or two later.
    are we clear on this one yet folks?

    our hours are not 9-5 mon-fri. like most people.
    you all want this strike over right. well then i'll tell ya what. in future i and my colleagues across the city will take our full break entitlements. report to our garages bang on our reporting time. leave or garages bang on our time to leave.
    now see how long it will be before you all start moaning about buses not showing up.
    simply because we dont have enough time to get where we're going.
    you moan because we go on strike,
    you moan because you've no buses to go to the zoo,
    you moan because you cant do your shopping,
    you moan because the bus in not moving away from the stop,
    you moan because the ignorant gob ****s driving home at peak times wont let the bus pull out.
    you moan because the bus is full and your squashed up at the door
    you moan because the bus is full and has just left you behind.
    well i have news for you all
    everyone one of you that posts here ,who doesn't let a bus out are to blame for buses being late and not running on time.
    think about what i've said
    if i didn't have the publics interest at heart i would'nt have gone to work today.
    if i didn't have the publics interest at heart i wouldn't have packed my bus right up to the door with every passenger i could find to day. i and my colleagues would've put the calcutta express to shame today with the amount of passengers on each of our buses.
    DO WE MOAN?
    for once cut us some slack and let us fight for what we belive in.
    in time the strike will fizzle out,proabably end and then days or weeks later it will all be forgotten about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    I'm not too worried about a wider bus strike as I get the mortons bus early in their route.

    And most likely, early in the day. Try catching a Mortons bus after 7pm and see how you get home. For me, Mortons are a typical example of why privatisation is bad. Whatever about Dublin Bus drivers refusing to operate a route, Mortons simply took their all day service off the road, without any notice to passengers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,475 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    As is always the case in these things its the public who pays :rolleyes:
    'A' has an issue with 'B' but goes out and beats up innocent 'C'. :mad:

    A few years ago train drivers went on strike. I know that many B&B owners in Killarney lost a ton of business. It's almost impossible to repair the damager to customer opinion for something like that.
    This strike can only erode the already low opinion people have of public transport ... and force them back into their cars ... which will make the average speeds of buses even slower.

    I'm lucky that I cycle or take the train or work from home. I haven't taken a bus in years and avoid them at all cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    Hey Meanie, welcome back, sort this mess out will you, They are turning on us already, Im off to bed up at 5am:eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    Meanmachine, whether you choose to like it or not, this is a discussion forum, with different views being expressed. Your last post is patronising to anybody who was left waiting for a bus this morning. There are over 300 posts in this thread, and people are well aware of the issues involved. We don't have to agree with the strike, so accept that. I understand your points and your argument, but I have the right to disagree with your views.

    You bring up the point about moaning. There have been numerous posts in this thread from drivers moaning. We even witnessed drivers on yesterdays RTE news, moaning about house prices. Everybody is guilty of moaning, and drivers are equally as guilty as passengers.

    While I don't agree with this dispute at all, I am choosing to look ahead and hope that an alternative, or agreement can be made. The points about breaks and the journey times to Harristown have now been done to death. Tomorrow may throw a new lifeline to the dispute, and perhaps an agreement will be reached.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    oi gazza your lucky, the last 38c was at 15.10 approx then the next one was yours at 6.20.
    next thing is ,a driver answers to no one but his supervisor.
    posters please remember the following.
    if a driver is driving the 6pm number 7 from parnell square, they are not driving the 6.10,6.20 or the 6.45.please dont ask as we wouldn't have a clue .their only concern is the bus they're driving not any other bus or service. they dont want to know nor are they told about the 5.50 number 7 or the 6.10 number 7.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    miniD, you asked for a solution heres one for ya.
    if we (bus drivers) suggest it we'll be ignored as always.

    ring up dublin bus tomorrow and suggest the following. why dont they move the 19/19A out of phibsboro and move it to harristown as it's already controlled by the harristown radio man. then they can move the 4/4A to phibsboro. there ya go bud. problem solved
    by the way this route passes right by phibsboro garage where drivers change for the route 19 here as well.
    this issue could've been solved months ago


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,845 ✭✭✭trellheim


    I fully support busdrivers.

    If this was going to be an issue when you went to harristown you would have gotten it in writing surely .

    You didn't.

    Why ?

    Anyone with half a knowledge of industrial relations [ i.e. the Union ] would have known that if no understanding/agreement then you'd be in the same boat as all the other drivers.

    Which has happened.


    So; what are you not telling us about this ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,897 ✭✭✭✭Mimikyu


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    Ah lads, don't be getting on poor Meanmachine and Sparemans backs, can't you see it's us they're looking out for ?!??!
    Spareman, seriously, I said it before and I'll say it again, are you for real or are you being manipulated by your union ? There's no dark forces gathering on the horizon waiting to do all sorts of nasties to you if the drivers accept these new routes and manipulating what RTE show on their news.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Jamar


    It would seem that a easy solution would be to move the 19/19A to Harristown, and let the 4/4a operate from Phibsboro. However, the issue is (imo) that management want to change a work practice, and it not really about the routes in question - I imagine that the 19s will move to HT at some point anyway giving where they terminate.

    It is also clear that a driver swap on a route is not as easy for HT as it is for most of the other depots - it really is in the middle of nowhere. For the drivers, surely at least 1/3 shifts must start and end at the depot (the buses need to sleep somewhere), meaning that the travel time to the CityC is very important to their working conditions.

    The strike (and both management and union are imo equally responsible for it) does not seem to be a proportionate response. Apart from swapping the 19 and 4 depots (would that lead to another dispute !?!), what about-

    - DB management organising transport from depot to where the driver needs to be. (Surely asking a bus company to organise transport is akin to asking a brewery to organise a party)

    - The drivers should implement a work-to-rule first. Show that it does not work, and that you are being asked to support the system unpaid.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    Have to say, the N2 this morning was absolutely hilarious, especially around Harts Corner.

    Well, hilarious for anybody not in a car, taxi, or the one bus I saw. It was a total bus lane free for all for about a mile leading up to Harts Corner.. I can't imagine how long it was taking people to get into town in taxis with the meter running..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    jamar the shuttlebus system your on about has been tried and failed already.
    when the number 4 came out last year and even up to recently it started/breaked and finished in the garage.
    the new 4A is part of the number 4 schedule now, so now drivers on number 4 route that have been starting/breaking and finishing in the garage for the last year or so are now being told you have to
    start in town
    break in town and
    possibly finish in town
    JIP your snide remarks do nothing, posters may have ran one or two of my comrades outta here but by christ the more snide remarks like jip's appears the more i'll post here.
    oh and by the way ,the way you treat us is nothing compared to the way some of are treated in dublin bus.i.e.here is just a walk in the park
    you all saw my little line about comrades.
    thats what we all are ,we support each other in crisis.
    A loss for one is a loss for us all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    JIP your snide remarks do nothing, posters may have ran one or two of my comrades outta here but by christ the more snide remarks like jip's appears the more i'll post here.
    oh and by the way ,the way you treat us is nothing compared to the way some of are treated in dublin bus.i.e.here is just a walk in the park
    you all saw my little line about comrades.
    thats what we all are ,we support each other in crisis.
    A loss for one is a loss for us all.

    Yeah, fight the power, put it to the man and all that comrade stuff, get with the times, you're not living in communist Russia now. Shows yet again it's nothing to do with the good of the customer, just another dying cry from the unions trying to still prove they've a relevance today.

    spockety wrote:
    It was a total bus lane free for all for about a mile leading up to Harts Corner..

    It should have been a total free for all the length of the entire bus lane, the bus lanes on the N1, N2 and N3 were open today to regular traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭markpb


    Jip wrote: »
    It should have been a total free for all the length of the entire bus lane, the bus lanes on the N1, N2 and N3 were open today to regular traffic.

    Where was the N1 bus lane closed?

    Edit: According to AA, the bus lane on the N2 is open to traffic in both directions from the M50 to Hart's Cnr. Normal operating rules apply to the N1/Swords Rd and N3/Navan Rd bus lanes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    I find it hilarious that people don't think they would be acting exactly the same way if they were bus drivers. I've no doubt whatsoever that in some cases, the bad attitude arises solely from jealousy that folks can't get away with the same courses of action in their private sector jobs (and really workers in the private sector do have to take a lot of nonsense that they shouldn't have to - even if they do have little recourse).

    People don't need to look too far either to figure out why Irish politicians act as they do...

    We're all part of the problems in Irish society.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    well said zoney.
    any person that goes on strike does it for what they belive in. agin if dublin bus bring in these changes it will be the travelling public that will suffer most


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,128 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    i think its just a complete lack of peoples understanding and intellegence. Management are there for a reason, they are to try run an efficent service.

    The same thing is happening in my job at the moment, people want to go on strike cause they want more pay, but they dont understand the reprocustions if they do get more pay , basically a large portion of staff let go. And they give me grief cause i wont vote for a strike?

    Management and directors are there because they know what they are doing. They are highly educated people who make critical decisions which cant please everyone but have to be done.

    As for helena asking why i didnt make alternate arrangement, everyones personal circumstances are different. I have not got any "lift" available to me.

    I had to go on a 50 minute walk then pay for a taxi, then a train to get into college for another test.

    Public servants never get public support when they go on strike...EVER


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    markpb wrote: »
    Where was the N1 bus lane closed?

    Edit: According to AA, the bus lane on the N2 is open to traffic in both directions from the M50 to Hart's Cnr. Normal operating rules apply to the N1/Swords Rd and N3/Navan Rd bus lanes.


    I didn't say any road was closed. It was announced on both 2FM and Phanton FM this morning that the bus lanes on the N1, N2 and N3 were open.


    Meanmachine, please drop the "we're doing it for the good of the public" line, it really is getting tiring and an insult to everyones intelligence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    Meanmachine, I do however agree with [DM]-TheDoc- and others that going on strike isn't necessarily effective and can be (disasterously) counter-productive.

    Also it doesn't look like this specific scenario deserves strike action (and isn't that what the Labour Court decreed?) - although no doubt a lot of the problem is that things aren't too rosy across the board (even just the fact that living around Dublin* isn't rosy for most people really at this stage).

    *I.e. anywhere from Newry to Gorey, Athlone or Portlaoise - enough said.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    yes DOC management are there for a reason and that is to provide the best service possible to the public.
    as stated previously in my other posts
    I am sick and tired and blue in the face of asking for a new schedule on the route i drive.
    So where are they serving the publics interest by NOT providing a new timetable where passengers
    WILL know when buses are going to show up
    WILL know that four up one down is not going to happen
    WILL know the approx time they arrive in town.
    thats all i want.
    Is it to much to ask for?
    Is it to much to give?
    I dont enjoy driving an empty bus. the busier i am the quicker my day flies in.
    you all have your own ideas
    most against us
    some for us and
    some somewhere in the middle
    heres a thought for you all now.
    what would you think if me and my comrades went on strike last week looking for a new timetable.
    would you still think the same way or would your attitudes be different?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,128 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    what difference would it make, my opinion would be the same, im being deprived of an essential service.

    in a way your lucky, you can go on strike, in my job, the people planning to go on strike, will come in when its done and be told on their merry way....let go no questions....and nothing illegal about it.

    To get your demands easier, youd want to be winning public support, then so much pressure would be on the powers that be they would give in for the sake of saving face.

    But a this stage they arnt bothered id say, 100% of people i know, talked too and have heard through papers and tv, are not supporting you...at all.

    Obviously its in everyones best interest to get things back working.

    But i always feel that once you go on strike, your management and boss will have one in for you, id expect harsh times ahead.

    Then again it is the public sector....you get it easy...

    also the REASONING for your strike action filtering through the media is your a bit pissed that you have to finish your shift in town rather then in the airport, where you probably live in the surrounding areas. Fair enough.

    But you dont see tens of thousands of commuters going on strike cause they have to go into town to work.

    You probably have other reasons, but this is the reason we all read in papers...making bus drivers...look like tools to be quit frank.

    A very ridiculous and childish strike from my reading.

    And union reps and bus drivers or anyone defending a strike will always say how its in the customers best interest , how they dont want to be disruptive etc etc

    I think the irish public are a little more intellegent not to believe the brown nose comments that come out of any strike situation but from what i read and see, most notably yours.

    If you are all so concerned about busniess practices, and are SO SO concerned about the public...dont go on strike...its a pretty simple process.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    what would you think if me and my comrades went on strike last week looking for a new timetable.
    would you still think the same way or would your attitudes be different?

    Comrades?!

    I'd say if you went on strike looking for timetable changes on a few routes, everyone who doesn't travel on those routes would be against you, and most people on those routes who work with the current timetable would be against you to. And people who weren't happy with the current timetable would probably rather stick with it and have buses running.
    So, everyone would feel the same way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    Zoney wrote: »
    Why can't the people upset by shoddy public services just hold the government accountable and demand the services be sorted out, instead of trying to get the government off the hook by allowing them to divest themselves of their present influence in favour of having even more indirect control?

    When was the last time the government in this country was held accountable for anything?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    Well it's not 100% anymore as I'm someone who supports it.

    In any case, I see a quote from the HR manager on RTE detailing that he pleaded the bus drivers going back to work and operate the new routes so services could be restored.

    Dublin Bus have two choices here. They can:
    - Carry on as they are, with the new routes still marked in and disrupt 60,000 because of the strike
    OR
    - Suspend the new routes whilst talks continue, as the new routes are not running anyway, and restore service for 98% of the customers effected.

    They are digging their heals in on choice number one, which makes no sense whatsoever as nobody is gaining anything from it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    MOH wrote: »
    Comrades?!

    I'd say if you went on strike looking for timetable changes on a few routes, everyone who doesn't travel on those routes would be against you, and most people on those routes who work with the current timetable would be against you to. And people who weren't happy with the current timetable would probably rather stick with it and have buses running.
    So, everyone would feel the same way.
    The problem with the timetables is they are not accurate anymore because the running time is much more during peak hours than the timetable suggests, which then has a knock on effect for that drivers services for the rest of the day. If there were realistic driving times and timetabled departures that could be achieved there would be a lot less complaining.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,128 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    greatly described dub_commuter..

    the new services are not even in effect....though again that could be a stubborn part on management, but im pretty sure the employees made their decision and just went ahead anyway.....

    its just so much hassle and sometimes i actually DO question the so called "goverment" of our country.

    But at the end of the day routes need to be accessable for every part of our capital...no matter how little used they are, thats why they are a public company.

    its basically showing major neglect for certain people in this country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Jamar


    It would seem that everyone (except those who use the bus service) wanted this strike, or did not mind it happening.

    I have sympathy with the drivers, but I don't believe that a strike was the appropriate response. (Why not work to rule?).

    I think that the government would like DB to look crap; they are pushing a privatisation agenda. Management probably want to improve the service offered (as do most drivers), but are frustrated by many factors (government, unions , etc) so don't mind the odd fight. The unions are using the strike to send a reminder to the government. No one is really motivated to end this strike...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    From the news reports today, it's seems the Labour Court has spent 10 months dealing with these two new routes, before reaching their decision.

    It's outrageous that empty buses and spare drivers have been sitting around a garage for that time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Quote DC Doc :

    "Management and directors are there because they know what they are doing. They are highly educated people who make critical decisions which cant please everyone but have to be done." [End]

    I found Doc`s points to be well made and have a certain validity UNTIL I read the above line :eek:....Oh dear.....
    I`m afraid that this concept of how the world is organized simply aint so,Ma....

    Education does not necessarily bring with it Intelligence and even if it does the two elements still do not ensure Commonsense and an appreciation of what is required for good governance.
    Nowhere is this more in evidence than in our system of Central Administration where we,the poorly educated compliant masses are fully expected to believe that our Taoiseach,a fully qualified accountant,was unaware of substantial amounts of cash floating around accounts under his control.
    We even have to accept that he was`nt aware or concerned at the actual currencies which these sums were composed of ?

    Is this an example of a Highly Educated Person in a position to make critical decisions.....Crikey...I hope not !! :(

    I can appreciate Doc`s desire to believe in the essential goodness of Management`s desires and intentions,however there are very few examples in the Western World of truly altruistic and benevolent Management.

    One could argue that the late Victor Bewley was one of the few who practiced anything like the "Greater Good" principle of Management,and that was for highly principled reasons associated with the family`s Quaker religious belief.

    The current Harristown squabble is quite simply the result of some very sloppy negotiation on BOTH sides.
    In the rush to commission the Garage into service it appears as if BOTH Management and Unions failed to observe the most basic of protocol`s which are the staple of every amateur group which holds any form of collective discussion...Write Everything Down and have it Initialled...the very minimum of recording etiquette..

    If the Labour Court were to bring about anything positive from this sad little debacle,it would be to recommend a thorough overhaul of the basic negotiation procedures between Management and Unions......Learn from Mistakes....not something the Irish are proficient at......ask the German Ambassador :)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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