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Milk - expiry date

  • 07-04-2014 2:02pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭


    When I was growing up, bottled pasteurised milk used to last about 3 days before going off. Purchased a carton of milk today (7th) and the best before date is a whopping 11 days away (18th). What kind of watering down high-tech process makes the cows milk last much longer - and is there a price to pay tradeoff?


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    TOMP wrote: »
    When I was growing up, bottled pasteurised milk used to last about 3 days before going off. Purchased a carton of milk today (7th) and the best before date is a whopping 11 days away (18th). What kind of watering down high-tech process makes the cows milk last much longer - and is there a price to pay tradeoff?

    Low fat/0% milk seems to last longer. What brand of milk is it? then we could tell you the processes implemented


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭TOMP


    Low fat/0% milk seems to last longer. What brand of milk is it? then we could tell you the processes implemented

    It was low fat milk purchased in Aldi, but I checked the standard milk and it was the same date


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Whatever about milk in Ireland, it freaked me out how store-bought bread in the US just wouldn't go mouldy. Creepy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Deucemc


    Better chill chain, refrigeration everywhere! On farm quality improvements fed by quality payment schemes! Increased pasteurisation temps.... Simple as that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭bluecherry74


    Most milk sold these days is homogenized, which stops the fat particles from separating and helps it to stay fresh for longer. That's why the cream doesn't separate and sit on top of the milk like it used to back in the day. As far as I know, it doesn't have and adverse effects on the quality of the milk - nothing is added, it's just blasted at high pressure.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    TOMP wrote: »
    When I was growing up, bottled pasteurised milk used to last about 3 days before going off.
    I used to also get bottled milk left outside my house, in the lovely warmth of the sunlight, perfect for bacterial growth.

    The people working out best before dates have to err on the side of caution, and know the worst case scenarios for storage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,734 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Whatever about milk in Ireland, it freaked me out how store-bought bread in the US just wouldn't go mouldy. Creepy.

    A sliced pan here in Switz lasts for weeks! It doesn't go stale, never mind mouldy. On the other hand, if you buy freshly baked bread it is stale by the time you get it home.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Homogenisation, better chill chain and improved logistics have helped with milk - plus milk will go off long before it's ever unsafe or a threat to your health.

    Bread has less preservatives in it (at least lot of Irish bread does now) so you probably find it both goes stale and mouldier quicker than about 20 years ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Voltex


    A sliced pan here in Switz lasts for weeks! It doesn't go stale, never mind mouldy. On the other hand, if you buy freshly baked bread it is stale by the time you get it home.
    Its the process they use. But you pay for it..here in Eire we have a phobia about paying more than €1 for a sliced pan...and then we wonder why we pump the stuff with chemicals like calcium prop, ssl and datem to make it more efficient to produce.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Voltex


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Homogenisation, better chill chain and improved logistics have helped with milk - plus milk will go off long before it's ever unsafe or a threat to your health.

    Bread has less preservatives in it (at least lot of Irish bread does now) so you probably find it both goes stale and mouldier quicker than about 20 years ago.
    That's actually incorrect. Bakeries use a range of sophisticated preservatives such as potassium sorbate, calcium propionate, acetic acid (sometimes declared as malt vinegar), fermented wheat flours and a range of protein engineered enzymes that don't need to be declared on labels.

    And we have bread packaged in modified atmospheres that inhibit spoilage ...so really your comment is not correct.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Voltex wrote: »
    That's actually incorrect. Bakeries use a range of sophisticated preservatives such as potassium sorbate, calcium propionate, acetic acid (sometimes declared as malt vinegar), fermented wheat flours and a range of protein engineered enzymes that don't need to be declared on labels.

    And we have bread packaged in modified atmospheres that inhibit spoilage ...so really your comment is not correct.

    Quantitatively there are less additives in bread. I'll think you'll find if you look at the monitoring data that's a factually correct statement.

    And potassium sorbate is hardly 'sophisticated' - one it's precursors, sorbic acid, along with acetic acid have been used for millennia as preservatives or mould / yeast inhibitors. Potassium sorbate, in it synthetic form, has been around for over 100 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Voltex


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Quantitatively there are less additives in bread. I'll think you'll find if you look at the monitoring data that's a factually correct statement.

    And potassium sorbate is hardly 'sophisticated' - one it's precursors, sorbic acid, along with acetic acid have been used for millennia as preservatives or mould / yeast inhibitors. Potassium sorbate, in it synthetic form, has been around for over 100 years.
    Id be interested in reading the source of the data. Could you provide a link please?

    Bio-preservatives and enzyme tech are the sophisticated elements I was referring to which are present in our breads today...although some aren't declarable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Voltex wrote: »
    Id be interested in reading the source of the data. Could you provide a link please?

    Bio-preservatives and enzyme tech are the sophisticated elements I was referring to which are present in our breads today...although some aren't declarable.

    Won't the enzymes de-nature during baking? EDIT: and therefore won't be present in the final product. A processing aid isn't an additive for labelling purposes.

    And are bio-preservatives additives? Where do they appear on the European Union list of food additives approved for use in food additives, food enzymes, food flavourings and nutrients?

    EDIT: Not their products or by-products, but the actual bacteria

    I'll post up the link when I'm back on a PC


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Voltex


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Won't the enzymes de-nature during baking? EDIT: and therefore won't be present in the final product. A processing aid isn't an additive for labelling purposes.

    And are bio-preservatives additives? Where do they appear on the European Union list of food additives approved for use in food additives, food enzymes, food flavourings and nutrients?

    EDIT: Not their products or by-products, but the actual bacteria

    I'll post up the link when I'm back on a PC
    This is my point. You say there are less additives in bread today...but that's not the case. Industrial bakeries in their quest for clean labels are using ingredients (or processing aids) such as protein engineered enzymes and lactic acid bacteria which are "carried" by substances such as calcium sulphate or calcium carbonate which don't need to be declared because they don't have a function in the final product.
    Personally I have no problem what so ever with these as they are safe, improve product quality and will aid in the fight on food waste, but they are still there at the mixing bowel stage and have changed the way we manufacture our food.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Voltex wrote: »
    This is my point. You say there are less additives in bread today...but that's not the case. Industrial bakeries in their quest for clean labels are using ingredients (or processing aids) such as protein engineered enzymes and lactic acid bacteria which are "carried" by substances such as calcium sulphate or calcium carbonate which don't need to be declared because they don't have a function in the final product.
    Personally I have no problem what so ever with these as they are safe, improve product quality and will aid in the fight on food waste, but they are still there at the mixing bowel stage and have changed the way we manufacture our food.

    Regardless of what goes in, it's what gets consumed that's important - and quantitatively there are less additives in bread today than 20 years ago.

    Data supporting this is on EFSA's Comprehensive European Food Consumption Database.

    LABs are just a different way of acidifying dough - the same way proving does. And anything enzyme or protein based is going to be destroyed or denatured by the temperatures achieved during baking.

    Calcium carbonate is just chalk - it helps with leavening and boosts the calcium status of the population - no bad thing, unless you're one of the tinfoil hat brigade........

    I'm not sure there's much use of calcium sulphate on this side of the Atlantic, but I'm happy to be corrected. I thought the wheat used here is more consistent when it comes to gluten content and needs less improving?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    Voltex wrote: »
    Its the process they use. But you pay for it..here in Eire we have a phobia about paying more than €1 for a sliced pan...and then we wonder why we pump the stuff with chemicals like calcium prop, ssl and datem to make it more efficient to produce.

    Or as sales of bread are dropping in Ireland, we seem to be just developing a phobia to the stuff in general! :pac: No bad thing, IMO, even "better" breads are still fairly crap, health-wise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭turnikett1


    I noticed the same thing OP. I too remember as a kid we would have to finish the milk within 2/3 days before it went off. Few weeks back I remembered there was milk in the fridge that I had bought at least 2 weeks prior, went to throw it out and it was still in date!

    I cant complain really. It still tastes good to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    turnikett1 wrote: »
    I too remember as a kid we would have to finish the milk within 2/3 days before it went off.
    I can't remember how far off the date was on milk when I was young. Milkmen were popular then so we rarely got supermarket milk. And the milkmens milk would have to have very cautious dates on it for reason I gave already, unknown storage so presuming/estimate worse than they would probably presume today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Most milk sold these days is homogenized, which stops the fat particles from separating and helps it to stay fresh for longer. That's why the cream doesn't separate and sit on top of the milk like it used to back in the day. As far as I know, it doesn't have and adverse effects on the quality of the milk - nothing is added, it's just blasted at high pressure.
    Not quite true. Homogenization actually breaks apart the fat particles so that you don't have large globules of part spread throughout the milk. It's done by by, as you've mentioned, blasting the milk at high pressure through small nozzles to break up the fat particles.


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