"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Aard · 21-12-2011 9:34pm

So Leap cards can be used on the Nitelink it seems. I wonder if the €2.20 "automatic" fare applies...

goingnowhere · 21-12-2011 9:42pm

Aard wrote: »

So Leap cards can be used on the Nitelink it seems. I wonder if the €2.20 "automatic" fare applies...

It charges 5 euro regardless of driver or validator

p to the e · 21-12-2011 10:38pm

Used the card for the first time today but unfortunately when I went to tag off at my destination there was no machine there. It's at Broombridge Train Station and if anyone knows it you'd know why. Is this the only station without a scanning machine? Are there procedures for handling something like this or if a machine is out of order?

AlekSmart · 21-12-2011 10:41pm

Aard wrote: »

So Leap cards can be used on the Nitelink it seems. I wonder if the €2.20 "automatic" fare applies...

It does'nt....but it damn well should....That alone would revitalize the Nitelink concept !!

markpb · 21-12-2011 10:46pm

p to the e wrote: »

Used the card for the first time today but unfortunately when I went to tag off at my destination there was no machine there. It's at Broombridge Train Station and if anyone knows it you'd know why. Is this the only station without a scanning machine? Are there procedures for handling something like this or if a machine is out of order?

Mark on RUI posted last year that anyone using the old IR smartcard could ring IR, explain they used Broomvridge station and it would automatically tag off any incomplete journies there in future. Maybe give the Leap operators a call or email and see what they say?

Aard · 21-12-2011 10:52pm

Is there literally no validator in Broombridge? Wtf! I didn't realise the area was that bad.

AlekSmart · 21-12-2011 10:53pm

Aard wrote: »

Is there literally no validator in Broombridge? Wtf! I didn't realise the area was that bad.

You have no idea.....:(

markpb · 21-12-2011 10:56pm

Aard wrote: »

Is there literally no validator in Broombridge? Wtf! I didn't realise the area was that bad.

There is literally nothing in Broombridge. Everything there was vandalised, burned out, stolen or a combination of the three. The platform is entirely tarmac because the bricks were prised from the ground and thrown at trains.

If trains had hubcaps, they'd be stolen by the time the doors had closed there!

21-12-2011 10:59pm

markpb wrote: »

There is literally nothing in Broombridge. Everything there was vandalised, burned out, stolen or a combination of the three. The platform is entirely tarmac because the bricks were prised from the ground and thrown at trains.

If trains had hubcaps, they'd be stolen by the time the doors had closed there!

It really is that bad. They either need to up the security big time or close the station altogether.

adamski8 · 21-12-2011 11:12pm

had to teach a dublin bus driver the other day how the leap card works, we had a nice chat about it, she said i was only the second person to use it with her, she now knows why there are two validators and that i can see my credit. your welcome dublin bus. it is going to take me a while to train all of your staff but don't worry i have it!

bk · 22-12-2011 6:34am

I'm just wondering are all the smart card validators on bus, dart, luas, etc. compatible with contactless credit and debit cards?

In London they are changing all their validators to be compatible with both Oyster card (their version of Leap) and contactless credit/debit cards in 2012.

With all the Irish banks planning to move to contactless Visa Debit cards in 2012, I hope that the NTA folks have future proofed the validators to be able to accept these sort of cards. Obviously it will require back end changes too, but I really hope they didn't buy thousands of validators that end up not being compatible with them.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-12-2011 8:52am

bk wrote: »

I'm just wondering are all the smart card validators on bus, dart, luas, etc. compatible with contactless credit and debit cards?

And NFC phones...

I really hope they didn't buy thousands of validators that end up not being compatible with them.

I'm afraid I can't be confident.

So far, anyway, Leap is a huge disappointment. I'm an occasional bus user (over 13 stages) and always carry a Travel 90. I'd use the Luas even more occasionally and it would be nice to carry one card to do both, and then I'd probably make more use of both for short journeys too. 40c a journey more than a Travel 90 (with no transfer ability) is just crazy. The same or more time/hassle than cash for bus journey under 13 stages is crazy. All of this can be sorted out, but will it, especially if it upsets DBs fare structure?

All of the passenger info I've seen says the card has to be taken out and pressed right up against the reader, held on a slippery sloped surface, etc, when a Travel 90 has no need to be taken out of a wallet to be used, which makes it quicker.

You can top up online but there's zero point if you're a bus user, you might as well just pay at the shop or Luas ticket machine if you have to go there to collect credit anyway.

So at the moment I don't see any point in the whole system for DB users unless lots of changes are made.

Edit: I would have been happy with a Luas smart card if I could use it on DB as a Travel90 for a Travel90 fare, and I can't see any reason at all why that couldn't have been done.

p to the e · 22-12-2011 10:29am

markpb wrote: »

Mark on RUI posted last year that anyone using the old IR smartcard could ring IR, explain they used Broomvridge station and it would automatically tag off any incomplete journies there in future. Maybe give the Leap operators a call or email and see what they say?

Gave Leap an email yesterday aswell and got this response:

Thank you for your email. We will be sure to pass this on to see if there is anything we can do but in the mean time if you contact Irish Rail they can give a definite answer as they deal with their tag off machines. I hope this information helps.

So it seems it has more to do with Irish Rail. It will probably be similar to what you said about the smart cards. I'll give them a bell later.

robd · 22-12-2011 12:45pm

Thank you for your email. We will be sure to pass this on to see if there is anything we can do but in the mean time if you contact Irish Rail they can give a definite answer as they deal with their tag off machines. I hope this information helps.

This kind of crap from leapcard customer service is really getting under my skin. Complete and utter pawn off. At no stage should a leapcard customer be instructed to contact an individual transport provider. It's up to leapcard team to log this as a fault and contact Irish Rail, resolve issue and report back to customer.

Irish Rail (from direct experience) will just inform you they've no access to leap system so can't deal with you at the moment.

Winters · 22-12-2011 1:38pm

I agree, Smartcard Ticket perhaps but an Integrated Ticketing 'System'? Not appearing so at all.

Seems a shame that we had to set up a Transport Authority when CIE should have been acting as thus since 1945.

How is it possible that for so long both Dublin Bus and Irish Rail operated under the umbrella of CIE yet never had a common fare or ticketing system for Dublin? Was one ever attempted?

AlekSmart · 22-12-2011 2:14pm

The closest fully integrated ticket that I can recall was the CIE Rambler Ticket,which was targeted at mainly holidaymakers,but gave unlimited travel on all CIE City Bus/Provincial Bus and Rail services for the chosen period.

Whilst it was a manual entry ticket,as the user had to record the dates on the ticket,it remains proof that the"Back-Office" reconciliation issue had been solved decades ago,yet we hear it used as the major excuse for the less than magical device we now have...?

LXFlyer · 22-12-2011 2:19pm

Em there still is the CIE All Services Annual Ticket Alek - IE, BE and DB (including Nitelink and Airlink!).

Price - EUR 4,600

AlekSmart · 22-12-2011 2:35pm

€4,600.....mmmmmmm

I'd love to see the sales stat's for that

Although,if we factor out the Nite/Air Links,could we then suggest a nice round figure of €4,000 per person as the cost of the DSP Free Travel Scheme....Hmmmmmm

€4,000 x 600,000 =€24,000,000 and that's not including the private's....?

Food for thought ?

robd · 22-12-2011 2:41pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Em there still is the CIE All Services Annual Ticket Alek - IE, BE and DB (including Nitelink and Airlink!).

Price - EUR 4,600

OAP Pass: 4600 - 4600 = 0. Loads of them. :-)

LXFlyer · 22-12-2011 2:44pm

Well with Taxsaver it can cost EUR 2,208!

AlekSmart · 22-12-2011 2:45pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Well with Taxsaver it can cost EUR 2,208!

Oh dear,look at what I've started now..... :eek:

penexpers · 22-12-2011 6:18pm

robd wrote: »

OAP Pass: 4600 - 4600 = 0. Loads of them. :-)

Social welfare passes are not valid on Airlink/Nitelink afaik.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-12-2011 8:07pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

€4,600.....mmmmmmm

I'd love to see the sales stat's for that

Although,if we factor out the Nite/Air Links,could we then suggest a nice round figure of €4,000 per person as the cost of the DSP Free Travel Scheme....Hmmmmmm

€4,000 x 600,000 =€24,000,000 and that's not including the private's....?

Food for thought ?

I make that as €2.4billion per year, Alex :eek:

AlekSmart · 22-12-2011 8:10pm

ninja900 wrote: »

I make that as €2.4billion per year, Alex :eek:

Hang on a tic,I'm just on to Kevin Cardiff's office..........:p

AlekSmart · 22-12-2011 8:15pm

penexpers wrote: »

Social welfare passes are not valid on Airlink/Nitelink afaik.

Yes indeed,that's why I deducted the €600 and rounded it down to an even €4,000...in the interests of fair play and all that...;)

L1011 · 22-12-2011 8:23pm

I'd be willing to bet the driver of a once a week be service in west cork or the like has never even seen one of those

AlekSmart · 22-12-2011 8:35pm

MYOB wrote: »

I'd be willing to bet the driver of a once a week be service in west cork or the like has never even seen one of those

Indeed,but he'll have seen plenty of the other document all the same.

What we now can discern,is that a CIE Group All-Services Annual Ticket @ €4,600 is just a tad less effective than a DSP Free Travel Pass.

The DSP has,in effect,issued 600,000 such tickets,or a tad more if one includes spouses/companions.

I'm quite curious really,as the All Services Pass really is an accurate benchmark as to the value of a DSP document...It seems to me that the young gentleman who featured on Prime-Time Reports had completely underpriced "his most popular line" as he called it...he was only getting €100 a pop.

Market forces may yet intervene ???

SilverLiningOK · 23-12-2011 2:01pm

robd wrote: »

This kind of crap from leapcard customer service is really getting under my skin. Complete and utter pawn off. At no stage should a leapcard customer be instructed to contact an individual transport provider. It's up to leapcard team to log this as a fault and contact Irish Rail, resolve issue and report back to customer.

Irish Rail (from direct experience) will just inform you they've no access to leap system so can't deal with you at the moment.

Got the same re: Dublin Bus accidental double fare. They stated - "If you want a partial refund, please contact Dublin Bus as they handle that side whereas we deal with Leap Card specific queries."

Went to O'Connell Street, to get my partial refund, doing so more the reason of fault reporting rather than the money. They had a bus machine in the corner, swiped Leap card, produced paper transaction list and payed me fare in cash. These errors need to be sorted out soon, or come the fare increases in the new year which no doubt will multiply the use of Leap, it will be mad in there altogether.

If this is not sorted out, I will abandon Leap and return to cash fares. This is not worth the hassle and not everyone can/will be able to visit office in person for refunds.

This system clearly wasn't ready for use in the real world just yet.

AlekSmart · 23-12-2011 2:38pm

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Got the same re: Dublin Bus accidental double fare. They stated - "If you want a partial refund, please contact Dublin Bus as they handle that side whereas we deal with Leap Card specific queries."

This system clearly wasn't ready for use in the real world just yet.

One possible "Dublin" solution I can see occuring in the case of accidental double ticketing,is for a form of barter selling on the platform,with you offering the ticket to an intending pasenger behind you,and accepting their cash for it.

Given that Leap is currently highly unfriendly to users,these types of interaction may well become the norm...:(

blubloblu · 23-12-2011 4:11pm

So, the validator on the right side in the bus isn't a flat fare?

When using your Leap Card to pay for an Adult Outer Suburban 2 Fare or a Child Outer Suburban 1 and 2 Fare:
Please pay at the Drivers Ticket Machine* as follows:
1. Hold your Leap Card to the target on the driver’s ticket machine, as shown
here
2. Tell the driver your destination.
3. The correct fare will be deducted from your Travel Credit.
* If you pay using the Validator you will underpay and not have a valid ticket for travel and inspection.

"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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