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Is being gay a choice

  • 10-05-2012 11:16am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Fergus_Nash


    Here's a question that I've been pondering for a while. Do LGB people decide that they are LGB? I don't mean this that gay people decide to go gay and have a bit of fun and then go back straight and I apologise for this sounding crass.

    What I mean is that LGB people usually come out during their pubescent years but are they born LGB? Or is it like straight people who think that girls have cooties when they are ten and only find that girls are good looking at fifteen i.e. that whether a person is gay or straight they only start to find their sexual orientation at puberty?

    I don't mean to sound like an oafish bigot when I ask this question - I hope I don't come across as so. Also I left out Transgender people because I simply don't know enough about them and whether they fit into these questions or not. I'm not gay by the way, or even thinking about it. I just want to get opinions.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 feckedformocks


    The thing is we are all born with a sort of bisexual inclination, societal values are what hold people back from admitting it. There is a fear of rejection and/or discrimination when it comes to openly expressing homosexual tendencies. For most people however the tendency is not important to them or is strong enough for them to even contemplate choosing what would be viewed as an alternative lifestyle. Most people wish to procreate and this can only be achieved easily in a heterosexual relationship.
    I believe that it is preference, some people love mushrooms, some people hate them, some people don't mind them. As we grow and see the world we learn what are taste buds like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble



    What I mean is that LGB people usually come out during their pubescent years but are they born LGB? Or is it like straight people who think that girls have cooties when they are ten and only find that girls are good looking at fifteen i.e. that whether a person is gay or straight they only start to find their sexual orientation at puberty?

    How can you know who you are sexually attracted to until you start feeling sexual attraction?

    There are lots of people who come out earlier or later. But puberty is when everyone starts to realise who they are, who they find attractive, an what they want from life. So it would make sense that that's when a lot of people realise they are gay.

    Notice I said "realise". I honestly have never understood how anyone could think that people choose to be gay, no offence OP. Why would anyone choose a life where an awful lot of people think you're strange, wrong, evil etc.? Choose a life where you have less rights than everyone else? Choose a life that could loose you your family and friends?




  • no i was born gay if i could go straight i would make life much easier aka family crap


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    I first fancied a girl when I was 4 - so I would say it's not a choice as I certainly didn't choose anything at that age.

    What you're talking about is people who are gay for a while and then get married to someone of the opposite sex. That is totally different from the usual 'is gay a choice' question.

    In answer to that. Yes, I've seen a lot of people who are gay, have long term gay relationships and then one day decide they can't do it, they can't go against the norm. Some want children more than they want to be with someone they're sexually attracted to. I've had a few friends get married and drunkenly admit they don't fancy the person they married, they just needed the perfect family idea.

    So in your sense, it is a choice to live the life of a gay person because one can also choose to pretend and go get married.


  • Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭Dwn Wth Vwls


    I have friends who knew they were attracted to the same sex at 5 or 6 before they even understood what it meant. Everybody is different, there's no blanket explanation.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    The thing is we are all born with a sort of bisexual inclination, societal values are what hold people back from admitting it. There is a fear of rejection and/or discrimination when it comes to openly expressing homosexual tendencies. .

    I don't buy that at all. I have no fear of expressing any tendencies whatsoever, but i'm still not gay or bisexual because i'm just not attracted to men. It's not fear or reppresion or societal pressure of any sort, i just like women!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    I don't buy that at all. I have no fear of expressing any tendencies whatsoever, but i'm still not gay or bisexual because i'm just not attracted to men. It's not fear or reppresion or societal pressure of any sort, i just like women!
    do you also find armpit hair disgusting on women? I'm just curious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Babybuff wrote: »
    do you also find armpit hair disgusting on women? I'm just curious.

    Little bit.
    Is that relevant?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    Little bit.
    Is that relevant?
    Na, I'm just curious like the monkey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Careful now. Did you hear what curiosity done to the cat?:D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    I did and it was fun. :0

    I suppose I was thinking along the lines of how we are programmed from an early age to have certain expectations, hairfree women being one of them. and I got to associating that with other societal expectations, like sexual orientation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    I come at from the other side.
    I think more and more society is reflecting the likes and dislikes of the masses, rather than preaching to the masses what they should like and dislike. The main cultural drivers these days are populist in nature, tv, internet, music and so on. They just give people what the like rather than try to mould them into something they themselves want people to be, like the church for example.
    Take the porn industry for example, it doesn't have a view on whether women should be hairy or not - the people who consume it do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 feckedformocks


    I don't buy that at all. I have no fear of expressing any tendencies whatsoever, but i'm still not gay or bisexual because i'm just not attracted to men. It's not fear or reppresion or societal pressure of any sort, i just like women!
    fair enough, but I think my point more so was that you probably have experienced an attraction to a male before within the span of your life so far.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    To-may-to, to-mah-to i think. Obviously I can look at a movie and cop that Brad Pitt is a very good looking bloke, I wouldn't call it an attraction though. My thought process would be more along the lines of I wouldn't mind looking like that myself, not what i'd like to do to him!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 feckedformocks


    Its called a crush, don't tell me you have never had one of those before on a person of your own sex!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Its called a crush, don't tell me you have never had one of those before on a person of your own sex!

    No, I didn't.

    Edit: I don't think that would be uncommon either?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 feckedformocks


    I would want to have a good think about that one if i were you ....!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Ok!
    Obviously we both can only see things from our own perspective, but I would gamble that of all the people I know, that position would be very much in the majority. I'd be amazed if it wasn't in fact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Its called a crush, don't tell me you have never had one of those before on a person of your own sex!
    I never have.

    I've certainly idolised other men and would love to meet them, but I've never thought that I would like to spend a dirty night with any of them.

    Women now, there have been plenty of crushes.

    I don't buy the "everyone is born bisexual" line because it ignores the bare facts of the situation.

    However, I would accept that there may be a lot of people who are bisexual who don't act on it either because they feel no need to or they're actively surpressing it.

    As for the gay/choice question, I think it's a no brainer. I didn't choose to be heterosexual and I never reached a juncture in my life where I had the ability to choose between men or women, so therefore I don't see why it's assumed that anyone else did either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭ViveLaVie


    The thing is we are all born with a sort of bisexual inclination, societal values are what hold people back from admitting it. There is a fear of rejection and/or discrimination when it comes to openly expressing homosexual tendencies. For most people however the tendency is not important to them or is strong enough for them to even contemplate choosing what would be viewed as an alternative lifestyle. Most people wish to procreate and this can only be achieved easily in a heterosexual relationship.
    I believe that it is preference, some people love mushrooms, some people hate them, some people don't mind them. As we grow and see the world we learn what are taste buds like.

    I strongly disagree with you on this. The implication here is that gay and bisexual people are the brave ones who go against the grain in order to be happy, and that a lot of heterosexual people are just going through the motions in order to fit into societal norms. Where is the evidence that everyone is born with a bisexual inclination? I have never been attracted to a woman. I like men. It's the way my body works. I also first fancied someone when I was four, and I was not aware of any societal pressures then. I think it's disingenuous to claim that everybody has bisexual inclinations.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    seamus wrote: »
    I've certainly idolised other men and would love to meet them, but I've never thought that I would like to spend a dirty night with any of them.

    Women now, there have been plenty of crushes.
    .

    This is exactly my position. There are dozens of men i'd love to meet and who i admire, idolise even in a couple of cases - but i wouldn't fancy a night smooching away on the couch with any of them!
    I would also imagine that is very much the majority mindset.
    Of course it's not a choice to be gay,straight or bi, you are what you are. But i don't accept that bisexual is the default position or anything like it, infact i'd actually possibly say the opposite is true, it is probably the rarest. From what i've encountered anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Why would someone chose to be gay?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    OP, why don't you turn this question on its head to see how much sense it makes?

    Did you choose to be straight and if so, when and why? Do you have sexual attractions to men but choose not to act on them? Could you wake up tomorrow and decide to be gay for a week or two, find men sexually attractive and "stimulating", go sleep with a whole bunch of men and enjoy the whole thing?

    If your answer is "no, don't be ridiculous, I'm straight and my penis couldn't get erect if I was asked to sleep with loads of men," then please don't be so silly that people choose to be "gay" for the craic even though it can mean being discriminated against, abused, bullied, beaten or even killed.

    If your answer is "yes I could, but then I'd still prefer women" then your bisexual with a preference for women.

    If your answer is "OMG that sounds totes amazing", then your gayer then a glee christmas special.

    I'm not trying to be flippant, and I'm sure you were coming from a genuine place in asking. And i'm not trying to accuse you of being gay.

    It's just when you stop and think about it, it's either a silly question or the person asking it is at the very least bisexual.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    ViveLaVie wrote: »
    I strongly disagree with you on this. The implication here is that gay and bisexual people are the brave ones who go against the grain in order to be happy, and that a lot of heterosexual people are just going through the motions in order to fit into societal norms. Where is the evidence that everyone is born with a bisexual inclination? I have never been attracted to a woman. I like men. It's the way my body works. I also first fancied someone when I was four, and I was not aware of any societal pressures then. I think it's disingenuous to claim that everybody has bisexual inclinations.

    Strongly agree with you. My partner is (obviously) gay and she is terrified to tell her parents for fear of their rejection. I dont like the implication that only those who are afraid to come out will do so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    floggg wrote: »
    OP, why don't you turn this question on its head to see how much sense it makes?

    Did you choose to be straight and if so, when and why? Do you have sexual attractions to men but choose not to act on them? Could you wake up tomorrow and decide to be gay for a week or two, find men sexually attractive and "stimulating", go sleep with a whole bunch of men and enjoy the whole thing?

    If your answer is "no, don't be ridiculous, I'm straight and my penis couldn't get erect if I was asked to sleep with loads of men," then please don't be so silly that people choose to be "gay" for the craic even though it can mean being discriminated against, abused, bullied, beaten or even killed.

    If your answer is "yes I could, but then I'd still prefer women" then your bisexual with a preference for women.

    If your answer is "OMG that sounds totes amazing", then your gayer then a glee christmas special.

    I'm not trying to be flippant, and I'm sure you were coming from a genuine place in asking. And i'm not trying to accuse you of being gay.

    It's just when you stop and think about it, it's either a silly question or the person asking it is at the very least bisexual.

    Wish I could thank this post more than once!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 feckedformocks


    ViveLaVie wrote: »
    I strongly disagree with you on this. The implication here is that gay and bisexual people are the brave ones who go against the grain in order to be happy, and that a lot of heterosexual people are just going through the motions in order to fit into societal norms. Where is the evidence that everyone is born with a bisexual inclination? I have never been attracted to a woman. I like men. It's the way my body works. I also first fancied someone when I was four, and I was not aware of any societal pressures then. I think it's disingenuous to claim that everybody has bisexual inclinations.

    I was not implying that heterosexual people are 'just going through the motions in order to be happy' and to just simply 'fit into societal norms'. What I was saying was that we all have the capacity to be in a same-sex relationship biologically but psychologically we choose not to. It is down to psychological reasons we choose our partners I believe.

    Innate bisexuality (or predisposition to bisexuality) is a term introduced by Sigmund Freud (based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess), that expounds all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development (which includes both external and internal factors) become monosexual while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    dory wrote: »
    I first fancied a girl when I was 4 - so I would say it's not a choice as I certainly didn't choose anything at that age.

    What you're talking about is people who are gay for a while and then get married to someone of the opposite sex. That is totally different from the usual 'is gay a choice' question.

    In answer to that. Yes, I've seen a lot of people who are gay, have long term gay relationships and then one day decide they can't do it, they can't go against the norm. Some want children more than they want to be with someone they're sexually attracted to. I've had a few friends get married and drunkenly admit they don't fancy the person they married, they just needed the perfect family idea.

    So in your sense, it is a choice to live the life of a gay person because one can also choose to pretend and go get married.

    That's not really choosing to be straight. That's being gay and living a lie. Kind of reminds me a little of the catholic church's stance - it's ok to be gay, just don't act on it :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    I was not implying that heterosexual people are 'just going through the motions in order to be happy' and to just simply 'fit into societal norms'. What I was saying was that we all have the capacity to be in a same-sex relationship biologically but psychologically we choose not to. It is down to psychological reasons we choose our partners I believe.

    Innate bisexuality (or predisposition to bisexuality) is a term introduced by Sigmund Freud (based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess), that expounds all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development (which includes both external and internal factors) become monosexual while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.

    Looking for the big red X button lol :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25 feckedformocks


    ?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Looking for the big red X button lol :D
    I don't think he/she is implying it is a conscious choice.


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