FAS Work Placement Program

Vinyl Noodle · 25-03-2010 1:56am

I was so happy to see people talking about these WPP's. I'm a marketing graduate with experience but I was recently in a sales role and in the marketing department there was someone in on a WPP who was currently doing a part-time business course. In my eyes he was doing a job I was qualified for but was willing to do it for free so he got it.

I hate the fact we'll never know how many WPP postitions would have been real paying jobs if it hadn't been for the cheap alternative FAS has now given employers.

25-03-2010 2:05am

Vinyl Noodle wrote: »

I was so happy to see people talking about these WPP's. I'm a marketing graduate with experience but I was recently in a sales role and in the marketing department there was someone in on a WPP who was currently doing a part-time business course. In my eyes he was doing a job I was qualified for but was willing to do it for free so he got it.

I hate the fact we'll never know how many WPP postitions would have been real paying jobs if it hadn't been for the cheap alternative FAS has now given employers.

be fighting over unpaid work soon!:mad:

katkin · 25-03-2010 10:07am

Fred83 wrote: »

its clever as well,the wpp was meant to give you experience everywhere,but of course it barred you from the public sector :rolleyes:

Not really. Quote from info on revised WPP: http://www.northsidepartnership.ie/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=264

"The Programme will be open to all sectors of the economy including, the private, public, and now the community and voluntary sectors. The Department of Finance will issue a Circular in the coming weeks on the operation of the programme in the public sector."

Although apparently the unions are objecting in local authorities.

25-03-2010 6:17pm

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=25376_5&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=17&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

THIS SORT OF THING DIDNT GO ON IN THE USSR

26-03-2010 11:45am

goat2 · 27-03-2010 12:57am

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.
Slave labour and the reduction of the minimum wage is already here and its called the FAS Work Placement Program.
I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting. I'm really sick of logging onto the FAS website and finding that 90% of the jobs they now advertise are WPP schemes.
What I find even more insidious however is that a person can have their Jobseekers Allowance cut if they are not prepared to be forced by the government to work for less than the minimum wage???
This is the type of "innovation" is emblematic of the Irish Government's attitude towards young people trying to find work.
How many of the companies who have signed up for cheap labour are actually that poorly off that they aren't arsed paying a receptionist or an admin?
The whole WPP stinks to high heaven of incompetence and wasted money, not to mention offering zero financial incentive to get people back to work.
Does anyone else think this entire scheme is comically inept at trying to achieve what it set out to or am I alone in thinking its a pile of b*%$cks?

Cheers Boards,

Thomas

the saying goes
the rich get richer, in this case true

the poor get poorer, in this case true, and treated like second rate citizens

97i9y3941 · 27-03-2010 12:58am

its probably been said already,but its becoming a slow plan to drive down wages..

Stark · 27-03-2010 1:03am

Ireland needs to become more competitive to get back on track but I don't see how this could fit into any plan from the Department of Finance. The aim of the game from the DoF point of view is to create more private sector jobs, not turn private sector jobs into effectively low paid state jobs as this program serves to do. I think this is just another example of Fás's incompetence and unparalleled ability to piss away tax payer money.

katkin · 27-03-2010 1:10am

http://www.fasopportunities.ie/NR/rdonlyres/9ABC5EE1-CF20-4AA5-ACA4-C5B81DD9FE5E/793/jobsdownturn91.pdf

This link provides information on how many jobs were advertised on the FAS website from Jan to May 2009, just prior to the introduction of first phase WPP scheme and it divides them into job type categories too. Naturally vacancy numbers will have dropped but might be useful for comparison with similar figures after intro of WPP and revised WPP.

Actually lots of interesting info on potential growth areas in employment with some statistical back up, worth reading

97i9y3941 · 27-03-2010 1:13am

is there any law or code on this sort of carry on,instance what happen if a person decided to fire them all and just get wpp staff?

katkin · 27-03-2010 1:19am

Fred83 wrote: »

is there any law or code on this sort of carry on,instance what happen if a person decided to fire them all and just get wpp staff?

There are. The can't have made more than 5% of their staff redundant in last three months, and can only hire one slave per ten paid workers (I think).

Tiddlers · 27-03-2010 1:48am

I recently started a job under the WPP1 scheme and after 18 months on the dole I'm delighted to finally have the chance to work and gain some experience.I can see why some people might want to criticise the scheme but not everyone sees it the same way.Many graduates on the dole have never had the opportunity to earn big bucks; we're just glad for whatever we can get these days. Most of us on the dole would rather work and gain some experience rather than just sit back and jeopardise or not use whatever skills we have. Many areas of work, like media,require a person to have experience and for those of us who can't afford to take up an unpaid internship or wait around for the perfect job which may be a long way off,are glad to have the WPP1 in place.

Before I got the job, I went to a number of interviews for other WPP1 jobs.One business was willing to add € 1000 extra a month on top of dole payments.The work they were providing was also very practical and I'm sure will hugely benefit whoever got the job. Another business just wanted someone to help out in different areas when things got too busy,offering no specific training or work experience.

My biggest problem with the scheme is that,as far as I understand,it is intended to be a graduate scheme enabling those who are unexperienced and struggling to find employment to gain some valuable experience.TOO many businesses have replied to me that they have decided to hire someone with more experience already.While I don't want to deny anyone the right to work,it does seem unfair to me that graduates are losing out on experience and training to those who already have it.This to me highlights a company who is just looking for free help and is not willing to actually provide any training.

WPP1 is for third level graduates; WPP2 is for non-graduates.With this in mind and excluding some blatant misuses and abuses of the scheme,I think many of the jobs advertised are credible.

Has IBEC's Grad-Link programme encountered similar criticism or only State-funded training agency's scheme?

AARRRRGH · 27-03-2010 10:00am

Tiddlers wrote: »

I recently started a job under the WPP1 scheme and after 18 months on the dole I'm delighted to finally have the chance to work and gain some experience.I can see why some people might want to criticise the scheme but not everyone sees it the same way.Many graduates on the dole have never had the opportunity to earn big bucks; we're just glad for whatever we can get these days. Most of us on the dole would rather work and gain some experience rather than just sit back and jeopardise or not use whatever skills we have. Many areas of work, like media,require a person to have experience and for those of us who can't afford to take up an unpaid internship or wait around for the perfect job which may be a long way off,are glad to have the WPP1 in place.

Before I got the job, I went to a number of interviews for other WPP1 jobs.One business was willing to add € 1000 extra a month on top of dole payments.The work they were providing was also very practical and I'm sure will hugely benefit whoever got the job. Another business just wanted someone to help out in different areas when things got too busy,offering no specific training or work experience.

My biggest problem with the scheme is that,as far as I understand,it is intended to be a graduate scheme enabling those who are unexperienced and struggling to find employment to gain some valuable experience.TOO many businesses have replied to me that they have decided to hire someone with more experience already.While I don't want to deny anyone the right to work,it does seem unfair to me that graduates are losing out on experience and training to those who already have it.This to me highlights a company who is just looking for free help and is not willing to actually provide any training.

WPP1 is for third level graduates; WPP2 is for non-graduates.With this in mind and excluding some blatant misuses and abuses of the scheme,I think many of the jobs advertised are credible.

Has IBEC's Grad-Link programme encountered similar criticism or only State-funded training agency's scheme?

And there is the problem. If this scheme is to provide experience, rather than free labour, then it should be ONLY FOR THOSE WITH NO EXPERIENCE. ie if you have had a job before, you are eliminated from WPP.

27-03-2010 11:38am

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=1681_9&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=3&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=1681_9&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=5&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=1681_9&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=6&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=1681_9&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=7&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=1681_9&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=8&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

Elessar · 27-03-2010 11:41am

Deleted User wrote: »

People genuinely looking for part time jobs or retail work are not going to find it. How will this do anything other than increase unemployment ? The state is now paying for private AND public sector wages!!

This is a f*cking disgrace. The WPP is now actually working against unemployed people. How is someone to find a job, when, they drop their CV into their local Centra only to be told they're not hiring BECAUSE THEY GET FREE STAFF FROM FAS.

Did you report those links to FAS?

Stark · 29-03-2010 4:29pm

"Not one graduate of €39m Fás scheme employed"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfkfojidauid/rss2/

29-03-2010 5:50pm

Someone on the pin started this:
For anyone interested:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/End-the-FAS-work-place-programme-WWP1-WWP2/109792949040367?v=wall&ref=ts
Im not into facebook movements but alot of people are surprised when they hear about this scheme... no harm getting it out there I suppose

29-03-2010 11:46pm

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/lreg.pdf

The scheme is administered by FAS, but participants continue to receive their existing
social welfare entitlements from DSFA for their duration on the programme. Since participants
on this scheme are engaged in employment they are excluded from the Live Register

Eliza Lynch · 30-03-2010 10:39am

I have not read all the posts as there are ten pages.....

I am on this scheme - I am a recent graduate.

I was just wondering how much do employers(- ie my employer) get for taking part in the scheme? I know they get x amount but it would just be interesting.

I am getting good experience and I will be very happy to have it on my Cv as it was barren without it However it was HELL dealing with FAS who are incredibly incredibly inefficent - my dole was cut, I couldnt get rent allowance etc etc etc. I can't ever understand why in this country government bodies can't work together? It has made me incredibly suspicious of all public servants and public bodies. I have spent 4 months on the phone to different groups/offices etc and nothing, my bf's parents are putting me up as my placement is 3 hrs away from home. Although I am glad of the experience it has been very stressful and I am definately no financially better off.

I am optimistic but it really is hard.:o

Also I am wondering if any one else felt unprepared after taking this scheme after coming straight from college, I was in UL and feel that I am definatley lacking a lot of practical skills that now seem to be completly pivitol to my job. After a 4 year course I feel cheated.:(

30-03-2010 10:43am

Eliza Lynch wrote: »

I was just wondering how much do employers(- ie my employer) get for taking part in the scheme? I know they get x amount but it would just be interesting.

They don't get anything

Eliza Lynch · 30-03-2010 10:48am

ThomasCreeby wrote: »

Exactly Maceface, they dont need to pay people even a full wage but their needs to be reasonable consideration given to someone who comes to work every morning and puts in their hours, where's the incentive if someone isnt doing the same is ending up with the exact same amount of money at the end of the week, not only that but there are also things like travel and food expenses that I have yet to find a company willing to compensate for.

Just to jump in they gov actually pay the companies and altho I think lots of small and medium sized businesses around the country can benefit from the skills and enthuasiam of graduates etc I think you are right expenses need to be paid.
Without them there is no incentives for the graduates and no sense of fairness being developed by the employers.

Eliza Lynch · 30-03-2010 10:49am

28064212 wrote: »

They don't get anything

A Person I know's mother's company is thinking about taking ppl on and they are getting paid.

30-03-2010 10:54am

Eliza Lynch wrote: »

A Person I know's mother's company is thinking about taking ppl on and they are getting paid.

Through the WPP? I find that hard to believe. There's no mention of a payment on the Fás website in the section for WPP Providers (which there would be if they were using that to entice employers to participate), to the best of my knowledge the company I'm working for isn't getting paid, and it would make no sense for Fás or the government to subsidize the scheme.

RichardAnd · 30-03-2010 11:03am

Eliza Lynch wrote: »

Also I am wondering if any one else felt unprepared after taking this scheme after coming straight from college, I was in UL and feel that I am definatley lacking a lot of practical skills that now seem to be completly pivitol to my job. After a 4 year course I feel cheated.:(

I sympathise with your situation but what you are experiencing with regards to what you feel you know or don't is actually very normal for people out of college.

No matter how well someone does in college, every experianced worker will tell you something like this; "graduates know nothing". The reason is that college work touches upon a few important things but a person can never really under stand something unless they do it themselves. To give a good analogy, college is like a person watching a pianist play his instrument without ever playing it himself. He might learn a bit about scales, finger placements etc but at the end of it, is he fit to go out on stage and preform? Absolutly not.

But don't worry about it. My first job out of college was crazy for a while because I had to learn so much but I did learn and it left me with a better understanding of the working work. A degree really is just a piece of paper, but work hard and you'll learn loads.

Eliza Lynch · 30-03-2010 11:30am

28064212 wrote: »

Through the WPP? I find that hard to believe. There's no mention of a payment on the Fás website in the section for WPP Providers (which there would be if they were using that to entice employers to participate), to the best of my knowledge the company I'm working for isn't getting paid, and it would make no sense for Fás or the government to subsidize the scheme.

I will have to ask her and get back to you? Do you find the scheme and your experience worth while?

RichardAnd wrote: »

I sympathise with your situation but what you are experiencing with regards to what you feel you know or don't is actually very normal for people out of college.

No matter how well someone does in college, every experianced worker will tell you something like this; "graduates know nothing". The reason is that college work touches upon a few important things but a person can never really under stand something unless they do it themselves. To give a good analogy, college is like a person watching a pianist play his instrument without ever playing it himself. He might learn a bit about scales, finger placements etc but at the end of it, is he fit to go out on stage and preform? Absolutly not.

But don't worry about it. My first job out of college was crazy for a while because I had to learn so much but I did learn and it left me with a better understanding of the working work. A degree really is just a piece of paper, but work hard and you'll learn loads.

Thank you, its refreshing to hear someone say,"its ok, you don't have to know everything" , everyone makes such a big deal out of college but I sometimes think the most important part is the extra years to just grow up, if that makes sense!

I have also since read some other posts and the supposed "celtic cub" attitude that ppl are complaining about but I have to say I am very glad of the experience, and of the conversation this programme has started.

While I need a little extra money just to cover bills etc and I really would have valued more information, clarity, advice and help from FAS,(I repeat help, not hand outs before I get attacked, and just to state I have been working since I was 15 so I have paid PRSI etc). Even rent allowance if you move to do a placement would really help, just for the duration of the placement. I moved from and will return to my parents house after this, they are putting my sisters thru college and as I have graduated it makes me so embarrassed that I still have to ask them for money, but its not like I can take a part time job either because I would losse my payments.

I do not expect FAS, the government or anyone else to help me, I need to work, But I can not say it enough dealing with these groups, seeing their inefficency makes it just that little harder to do.

billybigunz · 30-03-2010 11:41am

The govt. dont pay the companies.

Eliza Lynch · 30-03-2010 12:00pm

billybigunz wrote: »

The govt. dont pay the companies.

I wonder why so many ppl are saying they are? Mmm, anyway thank you.:rolleyes:

billybigunz · 30-03-2010 12:06pm

I suppose it is how you look at it. The government clearly do pay an employees wage bill.

Tigger · 30-03-2010 12:15pm

Eliza Lynch wrote: »

A Person I know's mother's company is thinking about taking ppl on and they are getting paid.

no the employer gets a staff member
the staff member gets paid thier welfare and trained

its a very good deal as if someone comes to me looking for a job after working for six months effectivally for free then i'll know they are serious

anyone coming to me after 6 months on he dole has zerp chance thats just how it is

i don't care if you think you tried to get work the guy/gal who got work is the better motivated

Vinyl Noodle · 30-03-2010 12:27pm

Also I am wondering if any one else felt unprepared after taking this scheme after coming straight from college, I was in UL and feel that I am definatley lacking a lot of practical skills that now seem to be completly pivitol to my job. After a 4 year course I feel cheated.:([/QUOTE]

I finished college last year too but I was lucky enough to do a six month internship while I was there cause I had to take a semester out. It was the best thing to happen because I realised how little I knew. I think this WPP1 brings some attention to a big problem with our colleges in Ireland.

On my first day of college I was told I would be earning €50,000 a year after I graduated by my head lecturer, what a joke I am now faced to work for free.

All college courses should aim to provide internships for its students, there is obviously a demand for cheap labour and either doing it over the summer or instead of a semester would give graduates like myself a real grounding in the real world.

Any foreign students in Ireland are usually alot older and have lots of experience before they finish college, as graduates Irish students aren't even in the same league.

Never felt so let down in my life then by my IT, careers office a joke and lecturers never giving one real piece of advice that has helped me since I left.

FAS Work Placement Program

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