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How do you judge an alcoholic?

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    #122
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    monkeysnapper wrote: »
    I work for a German retailer and I see so so so many people in everyday buying 2/3 bottles of wine and theres one man who buys a 12 pack of beer and a bottle of brandy '

    One thing about all these people , there all pretty much nice people and very much in control , I don't know how they do it, and I know there drinking it because you can see it in their skin

    Thinly veiled puff piece for Lidl :p


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    #123
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    I know of a fellow that starts the day drinking wine - 365 days a year - and he's top of his game. Not sure if I should name him here .......... Mods, erase if legal technicalities may arise ....... Herr Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger uber Alles!


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    #124
    Bergkamp 10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 189 ✭✭Bergkamp 10


    Does anyone know any young alcoholics? I believe I am on that road myself , without going into detail drink has definitely caused me so much pain and stress already in life. The only plus point I guess is I can finally see that and hopefully can try to stop it/myself further ruining my life.


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    #125
    [-0-]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭[-0-]


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Thinly veiled i'm an alcoholic thread.

    We really can't have a thread on AH without a "Thinly veiled" comment, can we?

    You are the epitome of all that is wrong with boards.ie.


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    #126
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    MJ23 wrote: »
    Buying 3 cans of Dutch Gold with a fistfull of coppers.

    You must have hands like Sasquasch


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    #127
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,877 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    yer man from guns and roses was drinking up to 12 bottles of wine a day and then moved on to a gallon of vodka, his pancreas eventually bursted, nows thats an alcoholic!


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    #128
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    mathepac wrote: »
    Perhaps it's a soubriquet that might be appropriate if cars killed, maimed and injured as many people as alcohol does.

    The main difference though is that the number of deaths from motor accidents is reducing year on year even with more cars and drivers on the roads travelling at higher speeds than ever (new motorways etc.) I'm not suggesting that the level of deaths and injuries is acceptable by any manner or means, just that is trend is a downward one.

    The opposite is true of alcohol. The more drinkers we have consuming ever increasing quantities, the more deaths and alcohol related illnesses we have. There is a direct causal relationship between increased consumption and the adverse consequences suffered by both the drinking and the abstinent populations. The very useful summary stats linked to by a poster earlier are evidence of the increasing damage alcohol causes.

    Maybe there's a lesson the health chiefs can learn from Uncle Gaybo and the RSA / NRA / Gardai, etc, but at the moment the Dept. of Health and the HSE seem powerless to change the appalling toll alcohol consumption is levying on our country.

    IMHO of course.

    Thanks for the considered response.
    Not a rhetorical question, but would you support a total ban on alcohol?
    If not, then under what circumstances, to whom and by whom, should alcohol be sold?


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    #129
    Ormus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Ormus


    It's amazing how many people on this thread haven't the first clue what an alcoholic is.

    The word is self explanatory. An alcoholic is someone who is addicted to alcohol.

    Some of the answers are hilarious. Someone who drinks x amount per day/week, someone whose drinking has a negative affect on their life/family, someone who can't enjoy a night out without drinking.

    These are all things which can sometimes happen when someone is an alco. They are not what makes a person an alco.


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    #130
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Ormus wrote: »
    It's amazing how many people on this thread haven't the first clue what an alcoholic is.

    The word is self explanatory. An alcoholic is someone who is addicted to alcohol.

    Some of the answers are hilarious. Someone who drinks x amount per day/week, someone whose drinking has a negative affect on their life/family, someone who can't enjoy a night out without drinking.

    These are all things which can sometimes happen when someone is an alco. They are not what makes a person an alco.

    Right so, what is your definition of alcoholism then?


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    #131
    cruiser178
    Registered Users Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭cruiser178


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Right so, what is your definition of alcoholism then?

    An alcoholic is someone who needs drink to function in their own way of life not someone who needs to get pissed all the time.


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    #132
    Ormus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Ormus


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Right so, what is your definition of alcoholism then?

    Seriously? I just told you. An alcoholic is someone who is addicted to alcohol.


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    #133
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Ormus wrote: »
    Seriously? I just told you. An alcoholic is someone who is addicted to alcohol.

    Yes but what do you mean "addicted to alcohol" Do you mean ohysically dependant? As there are lots of alcoholics who were never physically dependant.


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    #134
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    9959 wrote: »
    ... Not a rhetorical question, but would you support a total ban on alcohol? ...
    No, but I would support a reversal of the loosening of the licensing laws we have seen over the years.
    • Reintroduce "holy hours". Pubs and so on can stay open and sell coffee, soft-drinks, food etc. but not booze.
    • Close pubs at 11:00pm as before
    • Take alcohol sales out of filling-stations, corner-shops and supermarkets
    • Restrict off-sales to specialist off-licences
    • The specialist off-licences to have exactly the same licensing hours as pubs
    • Enforce existing laws and broaden them a little: no sales of alcohol to people who are already intoxicated, no drinking in the streets, no admission to clubs if intoxicated, no selling to under-age drinkers
    • No cut-price, below-cost selling or promotions of alcohol-based products, including mixed drinks
    • Have minimum pricing for alcoholic beverages based on their units-of-alcohol content (strong beers, spirits and strong ciders would therefore become more expensive while "regular" drinks would be priced largely as they are today)
    9959 wrote: »
    ... If not, then under what circumstances, to whom and by whom, should alcohol be sold?
    Some answered above, but to continue:
    • Anyone ordering alcohol on a licensed premises must produce a scanable age card / drinking licence when ordering
    • Ban anyone not of drinking age from bars / lounges on licensed premises (exceptions to be made for function rooms if a one-off district court licence is paid for when hiring the room)
    • Anyone ordering alcohol in a specialist off-licence must produce their scanable age card and the server must scan the card and the unique identifier on the container(s) sold. This provides full traceability (seller, purchaser, product purchased) in the event that the alcohol is found in the possession of minors
    • It is the responsibility of the seller to code the containers in their stocks to the required standard (PPSN / VAT Reg No / Business Registration, etc)
    • A minor in terms of the licensing laws is anyone under the age of 21, as in a lot of places in States that are not "dry"
    • An age card can only be supplied to a person who produces both a birth-cert and either a passport or driving licence
    • Tourists are exempt from the age-card requirement but must supply proof of age which will be copied by the seller when ordering alcohol-based products.
    Many may see these proposed measures as draconian and "nanny state" stuff. My question to them is "How many more lives are they willing to see sacrificed because of our unhealthy relationship with alcohol?"

    These are largely the proposals I have made before in other threads on similar topics in relation to attempting to limit the damage alcohol causes in our society and in particular to our young people. I'll keep singing the same song, maybe if people begin to tap their feet, they'll pick up the words as well. :)


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    #135
    Ormus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Ormus


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Yes but what do you mean "addicted to alcohol" Do you mean ohysically dependant? As there are lots of alcoholics who were never physically dependant.

    Dependent on alcohol, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects.

    I don't know how to separate physically and mentally. If someone can't stop drinking then they are physically engaging in the act of drinking, even if they think the addiction is all in their head. If they were to stop drinking, I'm sure it would effect them physically and mentally. The mental craving for a drink, the physical withdrawals, shaking, sweating etc.


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    #136
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Ormus wrote: »
    Dependent on alcohol, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects.

    I don't know how to separate physically and mentally. If someone can't stop drinking then they are physically engaging in the act of drinking, even if they think the addiction is all in their head. If they were to stop drinking, I'm sure it would effect them physically and mentally. The mental craving for a drink, the physical withdrawals, shaking, sweating etc.

    Lots of alcoholics are not physically dependant on alcohol, they don't experience the sweating, etc Binge drinkers would be an example, not all problem drinkers drink every day.


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    #137
    Ormus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Ormus


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Lots of alcoholics are not physically dependant on alcohol, they don't experience the sweating, etc Binge drinkers would be an example, not all problem drinkers drink every day.

    Not all problem drinkers are alcoholics.

    It's possible to have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and yet not be addicted to it.


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    #138
    Discostuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 303 ✭✭Discostuy


    Ormus wrote: »
    Not all problem drinkers are alcoholics.

    It's possible to have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and yet not be addicted to it.

    What would you define as an unhealthy relationship with alcohol?
    If someone finds themselves getting sick or has bad blackouts most times they drink, would you not say they have a drink problem?.

    For me personally, anything that causes an unhealthy balance in your normal life is a problem. Continuing to feed that problem is feeding an addiction.

    I think its such a broad term to get a handle on, its very hard to draw a line and between "alcoholic" and "unhealthy relationship with drink".


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    #139
    Ormus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭Ormus


    Discostuy wrote: »
    What would you define as an unhealthy relationship with alcohol?
    If someone finds themselves getting sick or has bad blackouts most times they drink, would you not say they have a drink problem?.

    For me personally, anything that causes an unhealthy balance in your normal life is a problem. Continuing to feed that problem is feeding an addiction.

    I think its such a broad term to get a handle on, its very hard to draw a line and between "alcoholic" and "unhealthy relationship with drink".

    Yes, I would agree that those people have drinking problems, but that doesn't mean they are alcos.

    My mother hardly ever drinks, but when she does, she usually gets a headache after one glass of wine. That's definitely problematic, but I'm fairly sure she isn't an alco.


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    #140
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Ormus wrote: »
    Dependent on alcohol, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects....
    This might help. These are the diagnostic criteria of the American Psychiatric Association or APA, for substance dependency, and are amongst the most widely used and accepted by professionals world-wide in the field of addiction treatment / medicine.

    Please remember the human beings at the centre of this when reading the criteria; they are not meant to be used as dry, acedemic scores to be met and totted up. Their purpose is to act as guidelines and to provide a common language for discussion amongst professionals and for making treatment recommendations.

    On page xxxvii in the DSM IV-TR the APA issues their Cautionary Statement which should be used in conjunction with all of their diagnostic criteria.

    " DSM-IV Substance Dependence Criteria

    Substance dependence is defined as a maladaptive pattern of substance use leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring any time in the same 12-month period:
    1. Tolerance, as defined by either of the following: (a) A need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or the desired effect or (b) Markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance.
    2. Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following: (a) The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance or (b) The same (or closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms.
    3. The substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than intended.
    4. There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use.
    5. A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover from its effects.
    6. Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use.
    7. The substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (for example, current cocaine use despite recognition of cocaine-induced depression or continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption).
    American Psychiatric Association. 1994. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM-IV. Washington D.C.: American Psychiatric Association. (pp. 181-183) "

    In AA literature and at meetings they use a "physical allergy" coupled with a "mental obsession" as their definition of the condition they refer to as alcoholism.


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    #141
    Discostuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 303 ✭✭Discostuy


    Ormus wrote: »
    Yes, I would agree that those people have drinking problems, but that doesn't mean they are alcos.

    My mother hardly ever drinks, but when she does, she usually gets a headache after one glass of wine. That's definitely problematic, but I'm fairly sure she isn't an alco.

    Yeah I get where you're coming from, thats why I think its very hard draw a definite line, its just a very broad term.

    I think it's the image associated with the term alcoholic. It usually conjures up images of a homeless person drinking flaggons or your neighbour who stumbles in from the pub locked every night.

    I'd go with Allan Carrs opionion that an alcoholic is a person who is not in control of their drinking. A lot of people wouldn't call themselves alcoholics, as its such a strong term...but if pushed, they would admit to not being in control of their drinking habits.


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    #142
    Temptamperu
    Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    To people looking in from abroad we are all alcoholics, we drink to celebrate and commiserate everything and most weekends everyone's drunk.


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    #143
    9959
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    To mathepac. Post#134.
    Didn't want to edit your post, that wouldn't be fair.
    Thanks for the well-written, BS free, comprehensive reply.
    Good luck to you.


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    #144
    Queen-Mise
    Registered Users Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭Queen-Mise


    mathepac wrote: »
    These are largely the proposals I have made before in other threads on similar topics in relation to attempting to limit the damage alcohol causes in our society and in particular to our young people. I'll keep singing the same song, maybe if people begin to tap their feet, they'll pick up the words as well. :)

    Thank you for that post - some really interesting points on it. I'm not sure if it would work :p, but some are seriously worth considering.


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    #145
    Soaring hawk
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Soaring hawk


    Stereomaniac wrote: »
    Yeah, but I don't think anyone ever sets out to become addicted. I for one, didn't. I just have a very addictive personality, with everything I do. So eventually, you just have to learn what it's alright to be addicted to and what to stay away from.
    If the alcoholics background was examined does he/she have relatives who were alcoholics, I think addiction is genetic .people are born with an addiction gene


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    #146
    Stereomaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    I agree with you. I have alcoholism in my family. Not in my immediate family, but it can still come from further away in the bloodline. However, I could've just as easily not been alcoholic.


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    #147
    Soaring hawk
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Soaring hawk


    Stereomaniac wrote: »
    I agree with you. I have alcoholism in my family. Not in my immediate family, but it can still come from further away in the bloodline. However, I could've just as easily not been alcoholic.
    A lot of people have different addictions, work,food,drugs,drink,sex,it does not have to be drink. Everyone has their own little demons to deal with. I have to deal with alcoholism, eventually it devours the sufferer physically mentally and above all spiritually and also those around them. Nobody sets out to become an addict but if u have the gene I think it's going to happen


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    #148
    Dub Ste
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Dub Ste


    According to my doc,you think you're an alcoholic is your piss smells like beer.

    You KNOW if you're an alcoholic if your piss tastes like beer......


    Seriously though,I went through a phase a few years ago,where I'd get through maybe 6/8 cans per night,this went on for months.It didn't bother to start with,but as the weeks rolled into one,I just knew I had to stop.

    It was killing my bank balance,I couldn't sleep without it,my work life suffered because of it,so much so that my manager had a "little talk" with me,that's when I realised I had to cut back.

    Still love the oul drink,though I keep it to weekends now,usually get 8 cans on a Friday and they see me through all weekend.

    I suspect that there are more functioning alcoholics out there than we realise..


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    #149
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    Its a downward spiral that is really hard to control unless you stamp it out and can admit to yourself you have a problem

    Think like an alcoholic, so you're off the drink for a few months and out of no where decide to have a few cans cause you feel like you have everything under control. You wake up hungover but not feeling bad, sure you had a 8 or 9 cans but that's the first day in ages you drank.

    Fast forward to the evening and the hangover is really kicking in now and the urge to drink is high, so you go buy more booze since its only the 2nd day in so many months you've drank. You promise yourself tomorrow your not gonna buy any more drink and you`ll just enjoy getting drunk tonight which will be the last time in a While

    You wake up the next day feeling much worse than you did the previous day, your emotions are all over the place and your anxiety is sky high. What did you do last night? Who did you talk too? How did you drink so much? I need to drink tonight just to calm myself down.

    Fast forward a month or 2 later and your in a much worse state of affairs, physically but even more so mentally and it feels like a ginormous black hole which appears to be impossible to get out it, the days and weeks fly by all the while drinking.

    That one night you decided to drink has forced you into an unholy mess which is very difficult to get out of, and now you know why you're not allowed to drink once. Because the situation above IMO happens to any alcoholic who even has a whiff of beer after withdrawing and getting clean. The above situation is a consistent trait for an alcoholic imo


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    #150
    Stereomaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    Soaring hawk wrote: »
    A lot of people have different addictions, work,food,drugs,drink,sex,it does not have to be drink. Everyone has their own little demons to deal with. I have to deal with alcoholism, eventually it devours the sufferer physically mentally and above all spiritually and also those around them. Nobody sets out to become an addict but if u have the gene I think it's going to happen
    For sure. I also would have had other addictions in tow with my alcoholism, drugs, sex, constant need to be around people. Spending addiction. It all went/could still go hand in hand for me. But it's amazing that since I've removed alcohol, everything has fallen into place. However, I feel that I will never be free of it. I don't think I will be able to say, I'll have a few and be alright. My alcoholism is manageable because I don't drink. But I am still an addict.


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    #151
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    First I look her chest. Then her bum. If she's still sober enough to stand; I'll sleep with her.

    If she can't stand up on her own, she's probably too drunk and you should try to hook up with her friend.


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