Keep abortion out of Ireland

qrrgprgua · 02-07-2012 5:58pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Women do sometimes suffer mental trauma after an abortion. Its called PASS ( post abortion stress syndrome ) and I had it myself after my abortion.

Studies have shown though that its more commen in women who are pressured or forced to have an abortion against their will or who do it without thinking their options through. In cases where the woman is able to explore her options and make what she feels is the right choice then its unlikely to be an issue.

For me, it nearly killed me, I attempted suicide but with a lot of help and support and with the passing of time I am doing really well. I know in my case the problem was down to the fact I rushed into things, I was unable to access proper counselling here, I was not really thinking clearly as I was trying to sort out work, get cheap flights etc. But I know I made the right choice and ultimately have no regrets about it.

Had abortion been an option here I would have had more time to think it through and would have been sure I was doing the right thing. But it can be overcome, its not something that has to blight a woman's life forever.

Its also worth noting that PASS can be compounded by the fact many women who have abortions are unable to get decent post abortion counselling here - its pretty crap to be honest, they are not able to be open about it because of the fear of the comments they might get and the general stigma.

Its not just abortion though, getting pregnant when you didn't plan it can mess you up no matter what path you choose.

Hi Thanks for your post.

totus tuus · 02-07-2012 10:31pm

doctoremma · 02-07-2012 11:10pm

totus tuus wrote: »

If you Google for a definition of 'person', you'll find many different definitions, applied across many disciplines, constantly changing and updating.

liveya · 03-07-2012 12:01am

The wanton destruction of Gods children, whose purpose it to know and love him forever in eternity, cannot go unpunished, I call on all women to repent and carry out good works to sanctify yourselves. The bodies of these children belong to God, not any mother, or ex-mother's for that matter. There is a difference between responsibility and ownership.

Abortion is not the solution to society's sex addiction. As capital punishment is not the solution to society's crime rates. The sexual revolution disconnected sex from love (God), so the only remedy is to reconnect it, Christ is our only hope from this self-destructive genocide.

Let us all pray for these women and men who support these crimes against humanities. Because we all know if these children got a chance to live, they'd speak out. Nobody would regret being given a chance to live; rich or poor.

totus tuus · 03-07-2012 12:04am

liveya wrote: »

The wanton destruction of Gods children, whose purpose it to know and love him forever in eternity, cannot go unpunished, I call on all women to repent and carry out good works to sanctify yourselves. The bodies of these children belong to God, not any mother, or ex-mother's for that matter. There is a difference between responsibility and ownership.

Abortion is not the solution to society's sex addiction. As capital punishment is not the solution to society's crime rates. The sexual revolution disconnected sex from love (God), so the only remedy is to reconnect it, Christ is our only hope from this self-destructive genocide.

Let us all pray for these women and men who support these crimes against humanities. Because we all know if these children got a chance to live, they'd speak out. Nobody would regret being given a chance to live.

Well said. If these human beings were let live, they could've made a positive difference in the world.

'The fruit of the womb they shall not spare, nor shall they have eyes of pity for children.' – Isaiah 13:18

liveya · 03-07-2012 12:46am

totus tuus wrote: »

Well said. If these human beings were let live, they could've made a positive difference in the world.

'The fruit of the womb they shall not spare, nor shall they have eyes of pity for children.' – Isaiah 13:18

Yep, since we live in a culture of peter pans, people want to make the best of this life, this 'neverland'. Forgetting this is but a journey, not a destiny. So anyone who requires our time is either kicked out (euthanasia) or prohibited from coming into the world at all (abortion), Those who require our care are hated and murdered, in all their forms, topped with elaborate arguments and incoherent logic. Hiding behind their euphemisms, they are seething with guilt, hence the temperature drops when the topic is brought up.- They are guilty, and they know it.

It's only since the internet, and all this garbage television from the liberal leftists; (North America), starting being pumped into our tv sets, packed with moral relativism, that Ireland followed the rest of the world in its sex addiction. Porn doesn't help, either.

03-07-2012 9:30am

totus tuus wrote: »

Well said. If these human beings were let live, they could've made a positive difference in the world.

Or they could have been the next Hitler. Or maybe their parent's lives would have just been that bit tougher by having a child they weren't ready for, and by choosing to wait til they're ready, they have a much better life for their future kids

liveya · 03-07-2012 9:36am

28064212 wrote: »

Or they could have been the next Hitler. Or maybe their parent's lives would have just been that bit tougher by having a child they weren't ready for, and by choosing to wait til they're ready, they have a much better life for their future kids

Yes, let's kill our unborn incase they might be the next Hitler..

"Choosing to wait", like they could concieve of this same, unique person again, with an immortal soul? Once destroyed, they're gone forever. Cop on.

03-07-2012 9:40am

liveya wrote: »

Yes, let's kill our unborn incase they might be the next Hitler..

"Choosing to wait", like they could concieve of this same, unique person again, with an immortal soul? Once destroyed, they're gone forever. Cop on.

If someone's going to make a ridiculous argument about the positives an unborn baby "could" make, I'm going to point out the obvious corollary of that.

Festus · 03-07-2012 2:19pm

28064212 wrote: »

If someone's going to make a ridiculous argument about the positives an unborn baby "could" make, I'm going to point out the obvious corollary of that.

are you always this negative numbers?

qrrgprgua · 03-07-2012 5:49pm

Picked this up from "Psychology today"..

Its really aimed at those who were calling abortion a "Procedure". I don't know many people who field Guilt, Anxiety, Depression, Flashbacks, Suicidal thoughts when they get other medical "Procedures" done.

No matter your philosophical, religious, or political views on abortion, the fact of the matter is, the actual experience can affect women not only on a personal level but can potentially have psychological repercussions. Women’s reasons for having an abortion are always highly personal, but it’s important to remember that some women might choose to have an abortion after experiencing rape at the hands of a stranger or someone they know. Conversely, at times women may feel compelled not to follow through with a pregnancy under pressure from a husband, boyfriend, or family member. In any case, it is usually thought of as a solution to stressful circumstances.

Post Abortion Stress Syndrome (PASS) is the name that has been given to the psychological aftereffects of abortion, based on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). It is important to note that this is not a term that has been accepted by the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association. In fact, pro-choice advocates accuse their counterparts of making up PASS in order to further their political agendas.

Nevertheless, any event that causes trauma can indeed result in PTSD, and abortion is no exception. A woman can be of sound and solid mind when she makes a choice to terminate a pregnancy, but it is never an easy decision. Even when it is the right decision, there is sometimes a level of conflict that needs to be addressed so that the woman can be at peace with her choice. Believing that PASS exists does not mean that one does not believe in a woman’s right to choose; it simply means that one believes in supportive and constructive counseling around the trauma symptoms.

Symptoms of PASS may include any of the following:

Guilt: Experiencing guilt does not imply that you made a mistake or “violated your own moral code,” as some pro-lifers would imply. However, feelings around having an abortion may be complex and have to take into account fear of what others might think.
Anxiety: General anxiety is a common symptom of PTSD—in the case of PASS, there might be a particular anxiety over fertility issues and the ability to get pregnant again.
Numbness, Depression: Again, common symptoms of PTSD.
Flashbacks: Abortion is surgery, and in most cases, it’s surgery that happens while the patient is fully conscious. This can be a distressing experience.
Suicidal thoughts: In extreme cases, the PTSD that results from a controversial abortion could lead to suicidal thoughts or tendencies and would require immediate treatment. It’s important to note that this is not a common or expected symptom of PASS, but as with any form of PTSD, it is possible.

While abortion can induce post-traumatic stress in some, others will suffer no repercussions at all. In fact, studies have shown that women may feel relieved after experiencing an abortion. However, women who are okay with having an abortion are more likely to talk about their experience than women who are ashamed and regretful and have a better chance of working through this process faster than other women. Nevertheless, even those who argue that PASS does not exist will acknowledge that having an abortion may induce normal feelings of sadness, grief, or regret. And women with religious backgrounds can have a hard time choosing to abort. But admitting that abortion is a difficult choice does not equate to admitting that it is “wrong.”

Feelings are complex, and sometimes a woman will need to seek out counseling to help her sort through her own emotions and reactions as well as any perceived or actual stigma she may be experiencing. Post-abortion syndrome exists and could be overcome, even if the women believe that they are not allowed to be happy again. A compassionate, unbiased, and appropriate counselor can help a woman who has undergone an abortion come to terms with her decision and find peace again—without a political agenda.

Brer Fox · 03-07-2012 7:28pm

This summer, the most important date on the pro-life calendar is 7th July. That’s when we hope you join with thousands of others to speak up for the right to life. Meet us at the Custom House Square in Belfast City Centre on 7th July at 2pm!

Ireland - north and south - is one of the last remaining places in Europe where abortion is still illegal. But our unborn children are under threat. Powerful pro-abortion campaigners in Ireland, the UK, European Union and United Nations are attacking our pro-life laws. That’s why it’s so important we show our opposition to abortion. On 7th July 2012 lets do that!

Information: http://www.rallyforlife.net/index.php/belfast-2012

qrrgprgua · 03-07-2012 10:00pm

Thank for info..

fedor.2. · 03-07-2012 10:00pm

Brer Fox wrote: »

This summer, the most important date on the pro-life calendar is 7th July. That’s when we hope you join with thousands of others to speak up for the right to life. Meet us at the Custom House Square in Belfast City Centre on 7th July at 2pm!

Ireland - north and south - is one of the last remaining places in Europe where abortion is still illegal. But our unborn children are under threat. Powerful pro-abortion campaigners in Ireland, the UK, European Union and United Nations are attacking our pro-life laws. That’s why it’s so important we show our opposition to abortion. On 7th July 2012 lets do that!

Information: http://www.rallyforlife.net/index.php/belfast-2012

How about helping the kids that have actually been born, there's plenty of those that need help..........

fatmammycat · 03-07-2012 10:04pm

fedor.2. wrote: »

How about helping the kids that have actually been born, there's plenty of those that need help..........

Oh they don't care about them, or the women with unwanted pregnancies. Hell, Brer Fox doesn't even care what grown women in employment want. I wonder does he care about the female fetus as much as the male, after all they're taking up a perfectly good uterus a male could have used.

totus tuus · 03-07-2012 10:15pm

Thanks Brer Fox.

Onesimus · 03-07-2012 10:43pm

Thanks Brer. Bit short notice for me I'm afraid. But I'll mention it to my wife and see if she wants to go. We might just able to get there.

marienbad · 04-07-2012 1:11am

Brer Fox wrote: »

This summer, the most important date on the pro-life calendar is 7th July. That’s when we hope you join with thousands of others to speak up for the right to life. Meet us at the Custom House Square in Belfast City Centre on 7th July at 2pm!

Ireland - north and south - is one of the last remaining places in Europe where abortion is still illegal. But our unborn children are under threat. Powerful pro-abortion campaigners in Ireland, the UK, European Union and United Nations are attacking our pro-life laws. That’s why it’s so important we show our opposition to abortion. On 7th July 2012 lets do that!

Information: http://www.rallyforlife.net/index.php/belfast-2012[/QUOTE]

And this will achieve what exactly ? Other than making us feel self righteous what will it do ?

The 4000 + women will still get the flight to England as they do every year. Now that is the real issue , any suggestions on solving that one ?

Festus · 04-07-2012 10:10am

marienbad wrote: »

The 4000 + women will still get the flight to England as they do every year. Now that is the real issue , any suggestions on solving that one ?

Yes, the campaign in the UK needs to be upped to get abortion banned there.

eviltwin · 04-07-2012 10:14am

Festus wrote: »

Yes, the campaign in the UK needs to be upped to get abortion banned there.

But then women will just go to Holland or somewhere else.

Surely the focus should be on making sure every pregnancy is wanted so that the need for abortion is reduced. I know that's a very pie in the sky ambition though.

Happyman42 · 04-07-2012 10:15am

Festus wrote: »

Yes, the campaign in the UK needs to be upped to get abortion banned there.

We'll just continue to export the problem and get to call ourselves Holy Ireland for a wee while longer. Whoopie!

eviltwin · 04-07-2012 10:18am

Happyman42 wrote: »

We'll just continue to export the problem and get to call ourselves Holy Ireland for a wee while longer. Whoopie!

Or we'll see a rise in home abortions. Long before legal abortion was available women have been finding ways to do the job themselves. All you have to do is put it in google and you'll find ways of doing it. Sure with the internet medication is just a click away.

doctoremma · 04-07-2012 10:37am

Festus wrote: »

Yes, the campaign in the UK needs to be upped to get abortion banned there.

Pro-choicers form a significant majority in the UK.
http://www.humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-surveys-statistics/

From the article:

Where there is a health risk to mother/child (including developmental defect), 86% non-religious/67% religious are pro-choice.

30% Catholics are completely pro-choice (without requirement for extenuating circumstances), 44% Catholics pro-choice for rape/medical problems/etc.

63% of total UK population are completely pro-choice (without requirement for extenuating circumstances). This figure is from 2006 and, given the increasing acceptance of abortion in society, one can reasonably assume support is higher now?

coffee_cake · 04-07-2012 2:04pm

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Picked this up from "Psychology today"..

Its really aimed at those who were calling abortion a "Procedure". I don't know many people who field Guilt, Anxiety, Depression, Flashbacks, Suicidal thoughts when they get other medical "Procedures" done.

All of these things can happen after childbirth too

the thing is, qrrg, are you pro life because you think the fetus should be saved, or because you think it makes women unhappy? If it's the former, then posting articles about incidences of women suffering depression after an abortion has nothing to do with it and is a desperate clutching of straws.
I doubt it's the latter. If it were, time to ban childbirth too...

totus tuus · 04-07-2012 3:01pm

This is an extract from today's Irish Times.

Self-styled liberals refuse to recognise the devastating realities of abortion.

I AGREE with David Robert Grimes’s assertion (Irish Times, June 29th) that no one has the right to their own facts. It is ironic, then, that Grimes proceeded to cherry-pick those facts that best suit his agenda.

He sidesteps the fact that science has clearly shown that human life begins at conception, and that abortion takes the life of an unborn baby. Like many other abortion advocates, he also conveniently disregards the wealth of studies which have shown that women are adversely affected by abortion.

The growing body of peer-reviewed scientific research which shows negative mental outcomes for women following abortion cannot be ignored by any serious commentator or policymaker. It’s revealing that those who claim to see abortion as a woman’s right are also most anxious to downplay or dismiss these findings.

The research found that the suicide rate among women who had abortions was six times higher than that of women who had given birth, and double that of women who had miscarriages.

The findings of the research carried out by Dr David Fergusson and others, and published in the British Journal of Psychiatry in 2008, were equally troubling. They found that women who had abortions were 30 per cent more likely to experience mental disorder.

Fergusson’s research was a particularly robust 30-year longitudinal study with impeccable controls. The results are hugely significant, and there are many other such studies published in leading journals.

more.....

coffee_cake · 04-07-2012 3:02pm

I AGREE that no one has the right to their own facts.

He sidesteps the fact that science has clearly shown that human life begins at conception,

yes indeedy

eviltwin · 04-07-2012 10:16pm

totus tuus wrote: »

This is an extract from today's Irish Times.

more.....

Again look at those women, look at where they come from, what led them to abort etc

Its highly unlikely they were women who had been given access to information and given time to make an informed choice. And more than likely they were unable to access proper after care, probably because they were made to feel they had done something bad or wrong they carried that guilt around.

As long as a stigma surrounds abortion, as long as women who choose it are made to feel like they have something to feel guilty about they will continue to carry that burden. Its pretty obvious then that the follow through is that a woman who needs help dealing with the aftermath could end up with mental health issues but you could make that argument for any vulnerable person who doesn't seek help.

Again its not abortion that is the problem, its the lack of information, follow up support and other peoples reactions and judgement of it that make it hard for women to move forward from it.

Onesimus · 05-07-2012 1:32am

eviltwin wrote: »

But then women will just go to Holland or somewhere else.

Surely the focus should be on making sure every pregnancy is wanted so that the need for abortion is reduced. I know that's a very pie in the sky ambition though.

The focus is not just about making abortion and keeping abortion illegal in Ireland. It is about bringing awareness to the women and men of Ireland ( and the world as a whole ) that abortion is wrong, and that this law passed by several countries should not be an option for them. there is a better way and that is to choose life. Through this awareness we hope that women and men will then realise the error of abortion and make the right choice and that is to be pro-life.

Whether or not there is a law that says murder is wrong, people will still find a gun somehow and murder someone if they want to but that still does not make their actions morally right, nor should it deter us from enforcing the law and bringing about the awareness that Murder is wrong. The same goes for those who murder children.

Quatermain · 05-07-2012 1:44am

Onesimus wrote: »

The focus is not just about making abortion and keeping abortion illegal in Ireland. It is about bringing awareness to the women and men of Ireland ( and the world as a whole ) that abortion is wrong, and that this law passed by several countries should not be an option for them. there is a better way and that is to choose life. Through this awareness we hope that women and men will then realise the error of abortion and make the right choice and that is to be pro-life.

Whether or not there is a law that says murder is wrong, people will still find a gun somehow and murder someone if they want to but that still does not make their actions morally right, nor should it deter us from enforcing the law and bringing about the awareness that Murder is wrong. The same goes for those who murder children.

And you think you'll achieve all of this with a few hundred people getting together with their banners and their chants? You're not going to win over "several countries" (read: a good portion of the planet as a whole, save for the third world).

If you feel as strongly about murder as you say you do, why not don a costume and take to the streets, fighting down the villains that so prey on the innocents of the world? You've already decided to take the law into your own hands.

Also, I'm pretty sure one of the building blocks of Christianity is "treating others as you would have them treat you". Would you like an angry mob hurling abuse at you for making one of the harshest, most difficult decisions of your life, or would you like understanding and compassion? From what I've seen, the latter two are fairly thin on the ground.

TheBegotten · 05-07-2012 2:11am

The one thing that strikes me here is the argument centred on post-abortion depression (PASS). I've seen both sides use suicide rates, and it seems incredibly ironic, nay, hypocritical that pro-life are using it as an argument AGAINST abortion. Depression needs to be attended to and cared for, and you want to cut these people off from the proper treatment? Furthermore, you critise and bully them, telling them its their fault, that because she took away a child's perceived rights, to your mind she doesn't deserve the proper treatment? I've always been neutral in this argument so-far, but seeing the sheer self-righteousness, to hold your own opinions as facts, that the better way HAS to be your way, and most of all the bullying and indifferent attitude to those who have gone through and barely made it out the other side disturbs me. I'm aware I'm only addressing a minority, but its intolerable. I am now firmly pro-choice.

Sorry for the rant.

Keep abortion out of Ireland

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