Cycling the wicklow Way

joemc99 · 13-12-2007 5:16pm

Anyway, trinewbie, best o luck. I want to do it again in 2008, go for the record and all!

fyi, book the hotel in glenmalure NOW for sat night in summer, gets booked up very quickly.

ulif · 04-02-2008 1:02pm

Guys

I googled this thread as I plan to ride that trail S to N late spring/early summer.
How rough is the trail in decent conditions? I plan to ride it with my cyclocross bike.
Fitness shouldn't be an issue as I am an ex roadracer and multiple Ironman triathlete (sub 9 hrs).

Many thanks for your thoughts
uli

Johnny Jukebox · 04-02-2008 2:09pm

You should be OK on a cyclocross most of the way. Descent into and ascent out of the Djouce river valley will be a bit rough, as will the traverse across 3 rock.

ulif · 04-02-2008 2:18pm

Thanks JJ. If it is just those sections, it should be ok. I can always carry the bike.
chrs
u

Alkers · 04-02-2008 10:33pm

I don't think it would be as enjoyable on a CX bike - some of the decents and climbs are very technical with loose rocks etc and would be so much more enjoyable with a slacker centre of gravity, bigger tyres and a front shock.
Do-able certainly but much better on a MTB

Enduro · 04-02-2008 11:27pm

I'd echo those sentiments. On the second half, for you, it would be much more fun on an mtb with a bit of suspension. The section from the boardwalks to the Dargle is a cracking section on an MTB, especially at full pelt. How good it would be on a CX depends on your bike skills. You might end up walking some of the bits down near Slieve Maan as well. A CX would probably be faster overall though.

ulif · 05-02-2008 10:27am

Enduro wrote: »

A CX would probably be faster overall though.

Thanks for thoughts guys, greatly appreciated! Your last point is why I prefer my CX bike. I'd like to see if Sub10 is doable. I'm well aware that I will have to do some pushing/carrying/walking here and there but from what I heard so far, lots of the walk is wide forrest trails. Is that true?

Cheers
uli

Johnny Jukebox · 05-02-2008 10:48am

No, I wouldnt characterise it as "wide forest trails". A lot of it is fairly easy single track/doubletrack with links of fireroad and tarmac. On an MTB its not technically challenging, bar one or two isolated spots. On a CX bike it is going to be technically challenging and you're gonna get shaken to pieces with no suspension. In my years of riding the WW, I've seen a few strange sights but never a man on a CX bike.

But hey, go for it and I hope you break the record...

joemc99 · 05-02-2008 10:55am

Forget about a CX bike, no way. a good hardtail will be quicker alomst everywhere. the route is probably 50% poor surface fireroad, rough on a CX bike. The rest will be slow and tech. Probably 13 on a CX bike, 8 on MTB.......and sleepers on a CX bike, there us a 50mm gap between the sleepers so I'm pretty sure you would bin yourself.

You would have to walk out of aughavanna, walk out of Laragh, walk up paddock hill, walk the sleepers! , walk side of djouce , walk out of maulin river, walk out of knockree, walk top of prince willies, walk up fairy! Why bother.

ulif · 05-02-2008 10:55am

Thanks for that JJ.
Is it maybe because CX bikes are not as popular with "common" cyclists (only used by racers during winter for races)?
It might be a dumb idea to even try it but if someone says "you can't!" it only gets more interesting.

That talk about the "record": is that somewhere listed? Has an experienced road/mtb racer ever tried it? I know it may sound arrogant, but I could run 123k in 12hrs. Therefore, why shouldn't a pro be able to ride it in 8hrs or even less (and I hence have a shot at sub10)? If it isn't possible it would likely be way too technical to even ride it on a CX bike.

Thx
uli

ulif · 05-02-2008 10:58am

joemc99 wrote: »

Forget about a CX bike, no way. a good hardtail will be quicker alomst everywhere. the route is probably 50% poor surface fireroad, rough on a CX bike. The rest will be slow and tech. Probably 13 on a CX bike, 8 on MTB.......and sleepers on a CX bike, there us a 50mm gap between the sleepers so I'm pretty sure you would bin yourself.

You would have to walk out of aughavanna, walk out of Laragh, walk up paddock hill, walk the sleepers! , walk side of djouce , walk out of maulin river, walk out of knockree, walk top of prince willies, walk up fairy! Why bother.

hmmm - so according to you, CX is out of question. is the last section close to dublin (e.g. last 30k) a good test for the whole ride?

trinewbie · 05-02-2008 11:10am

ulif wrote: »

Thanks for that JJ.
Is it maybe because CX bikes are not as popular with "common" cyclists (only used by racers during winter for races)?
It might be a dumb idea to even try it but if someone says "you can't!" it only gets more interesting.

That talk about the "record": is that somewhere listed? Has an experienced road/mtb racer ever tried it? I know it may sound arrogant, but I could run 123k in 12hrs. Therefore, why shouldn't a pro be able to ride it in 8hrs or even less (and I hence have a shot at sub10)? If it isn't possible it would likely be way too technical to even ride it on a CX bike.

Thx
uli

FYI some of the lads (and ladies) on this forum are Irelands top adventure racers and national MTB champions (K-Capitla etc) so I presonally would listen to their advice as a few have done it before, and as far as I know one or more of the current "record holders" are posting.

ulif · 05-02-2008 11:19am

trinewbie wrote: »

FYI some of the lads (and ladies) on this forum are Irelands top adventure racers and national MTB champions (K-Capitla etc) so I presonally would listen to their advice as a few have done it before, and as far as I know one or more of the current "record holders" are posting.

I certainly do listen to them. My questions are serious. I just wondered if anyone has _really_ tried to go hard. I wonder if using a CX bike is insane - or a good idea.
However, it's not that I am unexperienced or have little fitness. I've been an elite roadie and raced Ironman for 6 years. Still, if a top roadie or MTBer would laugh at my idea and say it isn't even worth a try, I'd certainly listen.

joemc99 · 06-02-2008 3:36pm

ulif wrote: »

I certainly do listen to them. My questions are serious. I just wondered if anyone has _really_ tried to go hard. I wonder if using a CX bike is insane - or a good idea.
However, it's not that I am unexperienced or have little fitness. I've been an elite roadie and raced Ironman for 6 years. Still, if a top roadie or MTBer would laugh at my idea and say it isn't even worth a try, I'd certainly listen.

I commute on my crosser and race cross too. Great bikes for commuting, great for cross racing, but terrible off-road. I have been up three rock on the cross bike and smooth fireroads are the only thing you would get away with. the last 30km is typical of the last 100km. First 30km is crappy fireroads, old lanes and roads.

If you want to do it for the novelty factor, thats a different story. If you want to to the WW as a challenge, then MTB will make it a lot easier/enjoyable........

No official record, but the best MTBers all know each other, so news gets out when someone does a good time. Not many people have done the whole thing in one go, kinda boring towards carlow, so dont really bother. I only know of about 4 people that have done it in one go. 100s could do it, not meany bother to do it. Best in world could probably do it in 5.5....we race it every year to maulin river valley from lamb doyles pub, that takes 1:35 (inc top of fairy castle, not kilmashouge), so that will tell you the speed of the 'quicker' guys.

Another test, record for kilmashouge is 12:12 from M50 bridge, using the older route (not the brand new one). Sub 20 is a goodish time.

ulif · 06-02-2008 3:44pm

Thanks for your great reply, this is what I want to hear (or not

).
It pretty much reflects my thoughts on a "record" and I understand that a CX bike is probably a pain. I'll see if I try it anyway.

Being fairly new here, what's that about?
"Another test, record for kilmashouge is 12:12 from M50 bridge, using the older route (not the brand new one). Sub 20 is a goodish time."

Did you race CX nationals? Where do you train?

Thanks again!
uli

trinewbie · 06-02-2008 4:23pm

joemc99 wrote: »

Another test, record for kilmashouge is 12:12 from M50 bridge, using the older route (not the brand new one). Sub 20 is a goodish time.

Joe - Was that record set on a cross bike? ( given that thats mostly fireroad except kilmashogue lane)

ulif · 06-02-2008 4:37pm

Where is that "old route"?

thx
uli

Enduro · 07-02-2008 12:10am

Joe is one of the top MTBers in Ireland, a true MTB legend. I would listen very carefully to what he has to say. His CX experience is way way better than mine (Yes, he raced the CX nationals and got an extremly high finishing position), so I would believe him absolutely if he says its quicker on a MTB HT.

The record will never be official, as riding the thing isn't actually official. The 4 of us who set it were going to set a good time. However, the time is definitely beatable, and I would say a very good MTBer (such as Joe for instance), would be easily capable of doing it in under 10. None of us who set the record are Ironman triathletes... we don't generally do races that soft. We'd be more used to racing longer races in tougher conditions.

The Kilmashogue hill climb is a short section of the wicklow that goes through Kilmnashogue woods, which are near st columbas college in south Dublin (In the general 3 rock area). The record for Kilmashogue was set on a MTB HT, AFAIK. Its up the Wickow Way, and the WW was re-routed (and resurfaced) in the last year. As of last monday the old route is currently impassable due to fallen trees. Hopefully they'll be cleared soon.

ulif · 07-02-2008 7:18am

Enduro wrote: »

Joe is one of the top MTBers in Ireland, a true MTB legend. I would listen very carefully to what he has to say.

The record will never be official, as riding the thing isn't actually official. The 4 of us who set it were going to set a good time. However, the time is definitely beatable, and I would say a very good MTBer (such as Joe for instance), would be easily capable of doing it in under 10. None of us who set the record are Ironman triathletes... we don't generally do races that soft. We'd be more used to racing longer races in tougher conditions.
.

Thanks for that. I'll think about it if doing the CX thing would still be fun albeit slower and rougher.

Re Ironman: Yes, neither the distance nor the conditions per se are tough, I fully agree. But actually racing not just finishing an Ironman in the Hawaiian heat and humidity (I was a slow pro) is bloody tough. As is running 400m... However, I still consider Ironman the toughest one-day-event. The toughest sport IMHO is the Tour de France. But we're getting OT.

Thanks again
uli

joemc99 · 07-02-2008 9:25am

Jez Enduro, relax man! Youre a total savage yourself.

Kilmashouge hillclimb....its the first climb n->s on the WW. Out of Marley, under M50 bridge, start the clock, up the road, into forest car park, old route is the past the new hairpin, up to just past the 4th hairpin where the lookout is. Race running there twice a year since MAD days of 1992! Legend Craig Brady (on Rocky K cap tema this year) did a 12:12, big 4th the whole way! Robin did a 12:13 a couple of years ago, I only managed a 12:45, Dave Maher did a 12:30 (ish), Niall Davis did a 12:19 or something....I'd love to see Absolon on it, probably do a sub 11 :-O.

Cross, amazing sport, got a deadly 3rd in the nationals, loved it.....amazing bikes, sooooooooo fast, especially with my new tubs and carbon wheels. On the edge of the tyres EVERYWHERE. Great bikes for fields and fast smooth tracks, but crap for off-road.

All this talk of WW amkes me want to try the whole thing again, doing a couple of overnighters soon, down to Brooklodge and back next day etc, but no plans to do the whole thing.............mmmmmmmmmmmm????

ulif · 07-02-2008 10:33am

joemc99 wrote: »

Cross, amazing sport, got a deadly 3rd in the nationals, loved it.....amazing bikes, sooooooooo fast, especially with my new tubs and carbon wheels. On the edge of the tyres EVERYWHERE. Great bikes for fields and fast smooth tracks, but crap for off-road.

All this talk of WW amkes me want to try the whole thing again, doing a couple of overnighters soon, down to Brooklodge and back next day etc, but no plans to do the whole thing.............mmmmmmmmmmmm????

Joe

Great result at the nationals, fair play to you!
It indeed IS a great sport. And you're right, on single trails or on rough stoney paths they're pretty useless. At the place where I originate from we have miles of what I believe you call "fireroads". On a CX you're a lot faster than a HT.

Have you ever done the "three peaks CX" in the UK?

So how about we gather a bunch of guys to do the whole WW in a day and you guys smack the crap out of me?

I just have to wait to get my new sweetie:

joemc99 · 07-02-2008 3:31pm

ohhhhh, ti cross bike......droooolllllllllllllllllllll.....ti cross forks.....SNAPPPP

. did you get the bike? Looks v nice indeed. I just got my ridley supercross, just in time for 08/0-9 season :mad:

I have absolutly no interest in doing the 3 peaks. Some people may love the challenge, but kinda pointless IMO. Like trying to surf with high heals in a chicken suit....dont get it!

ulif · 07-02-2008 3:39pm

No, isn't mine. Was looking for a CX for MONTHS when I saw this on a forum. HAD to have it. It's exactly what I always wanted. Hope to get it by spring

I'm sure the Ridley is a great ride - enjoy! (Maybe we should go downunder this summer for cross season.)

Re: 3peak - true indeed if the course would be slower than on a HT (which I don't know but you seem to know).

joemc99 · 07-02-2008 6:04pm

ulif wrote: »

No, isn't mine. Was looking for a CX for MONTHS when I saw this on a forum. HAD to have it. It's exactly what I always wanted. Hope to get it by spring

I'm sure the Ridley is a great ride - enjoy! (Maybe we should go downunder this summer for cross season.)

Re: 3peak - true indeed if the course would be slower than on a HT (which I don't know but you seem to know).

yeah, 3 peaks may be quicker on a crosser for the front guys, a lot of it is on tarmac. Not really my problem with the race, I fecking HATE really rough surfaces in cross, seems to be a lot of it in the 3 peaks.....would be a good challenge though.....its defo a bike breaker too.

Enduro · 07-02-2008 11:52pm

Now that's a bloody nice bike. I love Titanium. My HT is Titanium.

But actually racing not just finishing an Ironman in the Hawaiian heat and humidity (I was a slow pro) is bloody tough. As is running 400m... However, I still consider Ironman the toughest one-day-event. The toughest sport IMHO is the Tour de France. But we're getting OT.

Believe me, the 4 of us who set the record are racers, not finishers, at events tougher than an ironman. I was cycling with a bunch of my pals on road in wicklow a few weeks back, and we were dropping a guest cyclist we had with us on all the climbs. He was a sub-10 Ironman triathlete. None of the rest of us compete on road, or train for road cycling.

The Ironman is a long long long way off being the toughest one day event. There are tougher events than that closer to home, if you look for them. You should get out of the soft world of triathalon and try something a bit harder. The TDF is certainly a contender for being one of the toughest sports to do well in, but its not the only one.

ulif · 08-02-2008 7:35am

Enduro wrote: »

Believe me, the 4 of us who set the record are racers, not finishers, at events tougher than an ironman. I was cycling with a bunch of my pals on road in wicklow a few weeks back, and we were dropping a guest cyclist we had with us on all the climbs. He was a sub-10 Ironman triathlete. None of the rest of us compete on road, or train for road cycling.

The Ironman is a long long long way off being the toughest one day event. There are tougher events than that closer to home, if you look for them. You should get out of the soft world of triathalon and try something a bit harder. The TDF is certainly a contender for being one of the toughest sports to do well in, but its not the only one.

Mate

I just re-read my posts - I believe that at no point I questionned your fitness or anyone else's here on the board. If you got that impression though, please accept my apologies. That is not my intention.
However, this thread shouldn't be about who has the biggest balls (not literally).
My hopefully last comments about IM: I think we do agree indeed. Sub10 is not racing but merely a long training day for an elite triathlete. Racing starts somewhere below 9 hrs depending on the course.
And to be more precise: Ironman is the toughest event if you take the average percentage of rel.VO2Max needed over the time span of one day's daylight. However, that alone shows the difficulty to compare what is "tough". And it might also vary from person to person. What some might perceive as tough, is a walk in the park for others.

I'm sure you are a better MTBer than I am. You would probably be a great training partner.

Cheers
uli

joemc99 · 08-02-2008 9:54am

ulif wrote: »

Mate

I just re-read my posts - I believe that at no point I questionned your fitness or anyone else's here on the board. If you got that impression though, please accept my apologies. That is not my intention.
However, this thread shouldn't be about who has the biggest balls (not literally).
My hopefully last comments about IM: I think we do agree indeed. Sub10 is not racing but merely a long training day for an elite triathlete. Racing starts somewhere below 9 hrs depending on the course.
And to be more precise: Ironman is the toughest event if you take the average percentage of rel.VO2Max needed over the time span of one day's daylight. However, that alone shows the difficulty to compare what is "tough". And it might also vary from person to person. What some might perceive as tough, is a walk in the park for others.

I'm sure you are a better MTBer than I am. You would probably be a great training partner.

Cheers
uli

None of this matters, WW is a great day out, sub 10 hours is acheivable for most resonable MTBers........

Dunno what savage is, but that adventure event you did Enduro, 10 days with only 24 hours sleep, first 3 days without stopping, nuts, dont know how you did that......I'm into my challanges, but I like a nice hotel bed at the ned of the day.

Enduro · 09-02-2008 8:45pm

Sorry if I was coming across as being aggressive there Uli... Thats not my intention. I'm actually enjoying the discussion!

I've seen a lot of triathletes move into adventure racing in particular, and generally they don't seem to be able to handle the incresed challenges that it presents (including off road cycling). I've no doubt at all that you have the fitness necessary to do the WW cycle... what I'm trying to get across is that you shouldn't undersestimate the additonal challenges that being off road throws your way (and I have no idea whatsoever how good you are off road... I'm making assumptions based on what I've seen of other trialthetes which may not be fair) Quite often (Usually) an normally fit but highly skilled biker will be faster than a very-fit biker of more limited skills in an MTB race.

And to be more precise: Ironman is the toughest event if you take the average percentage of rel.VO2Max needed over the time span of one day's daylight. However, that alone shows the difficulty to compare what is "tough". And it might also vary from person to person. What some might perceive as tough, is a walk in the park for others.

I'm sure you are a better MTBer than I am. You would probably be a great training partner.

That's a new defintion of a one day race you have there... only racing in daylight, which straight away takes out a huge amount of difficulty regarding any 1 day race, since for the tougher athletes out there a day is actually 24 hours long

, and there are plenty of races which use up all that available time, making them considerably tougher than something as short and sprinty as an Ironman. Not everyone is so soft as to need to stop in darkness. There are biking races, running races, and adventure races which all use up the full 24 hours available in the day. There are examples of each of them either in or near Ireland too, so if you really want to see why an Ironman can be regarded as short and soft try giving one a go. Given your obviously extremely strong fitness and endurance background you should do rather well at them.

(And of course, riding the WW on a bike is a piece of cake in comparison to all of the above)

ulif · 09-02-2008 10:41pm

No probs, all good.
Yeah, it's a bit unfair to label me as "one of those triathletes" esp. here in Ireland where the level of racing is very low. My IM PB would be Irish record by far but that says nothing about my overall ability, only about the state of triathlon here. I am sure this will change though.
Also, I have a road racing background (I raced for the pre Gerolsteiner team as useless domestique

) and did some CC and Marathon MTBracing in the mid 90s (with minimal success:o).

Enduro wrote: »

I've seen a lot of triathletes move into adventure racing in particular, and generally they don't seem to be able to handle the incresed challenges that it presents (including off road cycling).

That's a new defintion of a one day race you have there... only racing in daylight, which straight away takes out a huge amount of difficulty regarding any 1 day race, since for the tougher athletes out there a day is actually 24 hours long , and there are plenty of races which use up all that available time, making them considerably tougher than something as short and sprinty as an Ironman. Not everyone is so soft as to need to stop in darkness. There are biking races, running races, and adventure races which all use up the full 24 hours available in the day. There are examples of each of them either in or near Ireland too, so if you really want to see why an Ironman can be regarded as short and soft try giving one a go. Given your obviously extremely strong fitness and endurance background you should do rather well at them.

When other factors than pure physical fitness come into play, such as sleep depriviation and the ability to tolerate huge amounts of food, these events are of course very tough but for different reasons.
I've done a 24hr road race when I was 19 - it was fun but I've seen it's not for me. Like Joe, I need my challenges but prefer a warm bed at the end of the day. Also, sleep depriviation and very cold conditions for days during my time as paratrooper gave me some lasting memories. Times I definitely don't miss.

I'm yet to see an adventure racer being competitive in Ironman. The other way round, for many leisure triathletes adventure racing is the logic step up after finishing an Ironman. Very few have a chance at being competitive at racing Ironman.
IOW: it's two totally different animals. You would kill me in any adventure race (I would probably end up puking half way through and then fall asleep) and I would long be on my way home after an IM while you would be still out there shuffling the marathon.

Back on topic: shouldn't we all team up to do the WW in one day? No record chasing, just for fun? That'd be a neat thing.

cheers
uli

Enduro · 10-02-2008 11:53pm

Now I'm afraid to cycle the WW with you

.

Actually, I would be on for cycling the WW with you at some stage, but given your backgound I reckon I'd just be trailing after you holding you up!(But I could guarantee that I'd know where I was going, and that I would make it from start to finish). One of my own little personal goals is to get the running record for the WW sometime within the next year or two (That record is a bit more official).

And on the off topic stuff...
I'd be quite surprised if an adventure racer would make a competitive IM triathlete myself (but would think they'd all finish no problems once they survived the swim). Generally adventure racers are more endurance oriented, and the IM is a speed event (In an AR world context its an out and out sprint). So yes, I agree with you that they are two different animals, in the same way that the 100 metres and the marathon are two different animals.

When other factors than pure physical fitness come into play, such as sleep depriviation and the ability to tolerate huge amounts of food, these events are of course very tough but for different reasons.

In the context of adventure racing all that all definitely comes into play in a big way. However in something like a 24 hour running race fundamentally its all about physical fitness in a similar way to the IM. I would guess more so in fact, since there is no switching of muscle groups in the race. The physical requirements are so demanding that very few people can contemplate finishing these events, never mind being competitive!

Cycling the wicklow Way

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