RTE Regional TV experiments

Ulsterman 1690 · 19-02-2006 11:57am #1

As well as the "Munster matters" experiment in the 1970's as mentioned on the Irish TV site RTE had some rather shortlived experiments with Regional TV in the 1980's (TV northwest, TV Southeast etc) and sometime aroud 1994 IIRC there were regional news beoadcasts arround 6.30 in the evening for a few weeks.

Anyone remember these or have any idea why they were shortlived. I dont remember the 1970's/80's attempts but I did see some of the 1990's effort when I was in Dublin and thought the few programmes I saw were fairly well done although there were complaints in some parts of Ireland that people viewing via some relay transposers were getting the wrong region.

icdg · 19-02-2006 2:38pm

There are two recent ones I remember - the Six-One regional news opt-outs in the early 1990s (around 1994 possibly is correct) and the more recent "Regonal Nationwide" (oxymoran?) - it was actually called Nationwide Here and Now and involved three opt outs, one for Dublin, one for the West of Ireland and one for Cork. IIRC only one segment in each programme was an opt out and it was in the Friday slot.

The problems had to do with cable viewing. IIRC every Chorus Digital viewer got the West of Ireland opt, even if they were in Dublin. For my own part I got the Dublin opt on cable, but the network feed on terrestrial.

Trying to find some examples from RTE.ie, but they seem to have been removed. Strangely, no Friday night Nationwides are available from Spring 2002...

Screenshot here - http://www.iolfree.ie/~icdg/local.htm - yes I know that site badly needs updating, its really something I have to get around to doing...

watty · 19-02-2006 3:30pm

Tis very sad the lack of regional programming, given the total culture gap between the pale (Western Britain) and the rest of us (the Celts)

watty · 19-02-2006 3:33pm

icdg wrote:

T

Screenshot here - http://www.iolfree.ie/~icdg/local.htm - yes I know that site badly needs updating, its really something I have to get around to doing...

I don't plan to update any of my sites anymore I was so impressed with Byte's wiki and Siteground I got my own
http://www.wattystuff.net/tiki/

I gave editing rights to a bunch of PIC/JAL enthusists..

You can more quickly use the ICDGopedia...

Elmo · 22-02-2006 1:35am

Tis very sad the lack of regional programming, given the total culture gap between the pale (Western Britain) and the rest of us (the Celts)

None of us are celts according to some historian, and i think RTE did a programme on that, he die a few years ago. I think????

As for regional tv thank god we never got it in this country. Irish TV is bad enough with out Regional TV.

Ulsterman 1690 · 22-02-2006 10:12pm

None of us are celts according to some historian, and i think RTE did a programme on that, he die a few years ago. I think????

Surely we are all (just like our friends across the water) a *bastardised mixture of Celts, Vikings, Normans, Spaniards , Anglo-Saxons, That lot who were in Ireland before the Celts (Dont ask me to remember at this time of the night

) and whoever else was passing through.

* = Which if anything is something to be proud of since inbreeding is not good
Of course it shouldnt matteradamn since dwelling too much on ethnic-classification is not good either (see Europe sixty years ago or The Balkins, Rawanda etc more recently)

As for regional tv thank god we never got it in this country. Irish TV is bad enough with out Regional TV.

Although I wouldnt be RTE's biggest fan I thought they made a reasonable fist at regional TV on the few occasions I saw it

Elmo · 23-02-2006 12:18pm

Of course it shouldnt matteradamn since dwelling too much on ethnic-classification is not good either (see Europe sixty years ago or The Balkins, Rawanda etc more recently)

Northern Ireland/Ulster/Six Counties. (Don't want to offend anyone).

Although I wouldnt be RTE's biggest fan I thought they made a reasonable fist at regional TV on the few occasions I saw it

I am just not a fan of Local ****!

watty · 23-02-2006 5:01pm

Ulster has 9 counties. Though some in N.I. don't seem to realise that. I guess N.I.T. doesn't sound as good as U Tv.

The "English" Celts got pushed into Wales and Cornwall by the Angles, Saxons, Normans etc. The only real "Britons" left are in Wales

Telefís · 23-02-2006 9:30pm

I agree about the lack of necessity for regional television in Ireland; it was merely done before because it was possible rather than because it was needed. When/if DTT comes on stream, no doubt similar silly proposals will be made just because it is possible to do. We're simply too small to have any real cultural differences - not that they even exist in the UK either to the extent that regional television there would have us believe.

Ireland by and large does not need regional television, not least for the most part because it's generally muck, save the odd factual programme or two. It merely forces a contrived and stilted, ironically almost non-existent cultural difference on viewers. In Ireland, a strong regional service means only one thing: a furthering of relations between Dublin and 'the rest of the country' - something we could very much so do without. I don't have a problem with certain current affairs programmes opting out to deal with specifically local issues, but that is all.

RTÉ's funds are limited as they are - it would be wasteful to spread them even more thinly. And this does not come from a Dublin mindset that is already well-served; with the exception of the long overdue examples of 'Capital D' and 'The Bay', Dublin City gets just as much or as little coverage as any other area of the country.

And certainly do not regionalise the latter half-hour of Six One. The last thing we need is a currently decent half hour of prime time consumed with stories of firemen saving babies and announcements of multistorey car parks by the local FF councillor, as per BBC Newsline.
Good God save us all should that day ever arise.

Elmo · 23-02-2006 9:45pm

'Capital D' and 'The Bay',

Both should have been commissed for RTE TWO so that they could go out after Dublin Village. Yet again RTE's lack of Interest and confidence in the Second Channel.

Ulsterman 1690 · 23-02-2006 9:56pm

Ulster has 9 counties. Though some in N.I. don't seem to realise that. I guess N.I.T. doesn't sound as good as U Tv.

Watty you are being very NITpicky

We're simply too small to have any real cultural differences - not that they even exist in the UK either to the extent that regional television there would have us believe.

Whatever about the Republic are you seriously suggesting there are "no real cultural differences" between say Boho (Fermanagh) and Brixton (London) !!!

And certainly do not regionalise the latter half-hour of Six One

Ummm the Regional news broadcasts in 1994 were only abot 10 minutes

firemen saving babies and announcements of multistorey car parks

Are you suggesting that National news is totally devoid of "human interest" drivel ?

rlogue · 24-02-2006 1:30am

Keep it civil lads or I'll have to wave me big schtick now...!

watty · 24-02-2006 12:25pm

Telef&#237 wrote: »

I agree about the lack of necessity for regional television in Ireland; it was merely done before because it was possible rather than because it was needed. When/if DTT comes on stream, no doubt similar silly proposals will be made just because it is possible to do. We're simply too small to have any real cultural differences - not that they even exist in the UK either to the extent that regional television there would have us believe.

Ireland by and large does not need regional television, not least for the most part because it's generally muck, save the odd factual programme or two. It merely forces a contrived and stilted, ironically almost non-existent cultural difference on viewers. In Ireland, a strong regional service means only one thing: a furthering of relations between Dublin and 'the rest of the country' - something we could very much so do without. I don't have a problem with certain current affairs programmes opting out to deal with specifically local issues, but that is all.

And certainly do not regionalise the latter half-hour of Six One. The last thing we need is a currently decent half hour of prime time consumed with stories of firemen saving babies and announcements of multistorey car parks by the local FF councillor, as per BBC Newsline.
Good God save us all should that day ever arise.

Well I disagree about Regional TV, but agree about Six One.

I have lived outside Belfast in the North for about 20 year,
In Belfast for 6 years
Nearly 2 years total in South Dublin
Over 1 year in Israel
About 5 months total in England
About 2 months total in USA
2 Years in Co. Clare village
About 14 years in Limerick City
About 7 years in Co. Limerick.

From my perspective Belfast and Dublin have more in common with each other than with the rest of Ireland. The Montrose/Donnybrook/Dublin "mindset" of RTE / TV3 is grating in the "provenances" as is often the oddly similar "Mindset" of UTV / BBC N.I.

Though we joke sometimes of Dublin being "Western Britian" it isn't much like Evesham / Avon area.

Revisiting N.I. (Carrickfergus, not Belfast) after a 10 year break for 6 months after a year in Israel was very, very painful. It was a relief to get back "home" to Limerick.

Regional programming "for the sake of it" is a waste of money and annoying to everyone. But good regional program making with the best showning nationwide would help national cohesiveness. One of Limerick papers now has sections from Polish, Russian, Chinese etc writers reflecting significant new aspects of "Irish" culture.

Irish Culture is neither just about Temple bar/ Dundrum etc nor Irish Dancing and singing in Ennis. RTE IMO has too narrow a view of "culture" and "ethnic".

Telefís · 24-02-2006 8:12pm

With that I would agree

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Whatever about the Republic are you seriously suggesting there are "no real cultural differences" between say Boho (Fermanagh) and Brixton (London) !!!

No I'm not. That's unfair to pick a Northern Ireland vs 'Mainland' example - of course NI of all places ought to have a regional television service. I refer mostly to the regions within England - there is often a forced cultural difference generated by the regions that can be patronising and condescending. Perhaps it's just my experience of Newsline and South West, but aside from basic news stories and some programmes of specific local interest I find regional television, outside of news and indeed too much news, an unnecessary distraction, done merely because it is do-able for stuffy out-dated notions of what public service broadcasting should be.

Ummm the Regional news broadcasts in 1994 were only abot 10 minutes

I know that - just losing a sizeable chunk of Six One to regional is entirely possible under DTT. A regional service that separates Ireland into an east-west situation will only service to reinforce the divide between the urbanised east and less-developed west, heightening even more what is often perceived as a Dublin self-absorption amongst its people, and similarly with rural and the west in particular. I've never liked the idea that you are told what to watch by a broadcaster on the basis of where you live. If a programme outside of local news is good enough for some people then its good enough for all. Especially in Ireland where the entire population would fit at least twice over into the average BBC region.

To introduce a large-scale form of regional to Ireland would just be a joke. Just like the stupid fashionable media conventions that RTÉ so achingly copies from the UK in attempts to be seen as modern and progressive, regional would be yet another wasteful distraction that is fundamentally not needed in Ireland on any substantial basis.

Saying that, small-scale news items are do-able and certainly provide a useful service. An extended 10-minute 'news from our correspondents around the country' slot on Six One in regional form could work very well. Or a weekly discussion programme provided by each of the regions like 'Let's Talk' in BBC NI - again a worthy notion.

But even to regionalise something like Nationwide is fruitless and defeats the very purpose of the programme: to bring regions to a wider audience, and an audience that otherwise know nothing of these areas. The regionalising that happened with Nationwide encapsulates for me the difficulty with regional television - it slots viewers into categories, deeming certain material to be appropriate for you, and something else for someone else. Well I might live in Dublin and want to know about Kerry, and vice versa. The notion of being excluded from viewing material that others in the country are watching on the basis of where you live just doesn't appeal to me. For news, yes. For very limited current affairs, yes. Otherwise no.

Ulsterman 1690 · 24-02-2006 8:43pm

Some good points but...........

The notion of being excluded from viewing material that others in the country are watching on the basis of where you live just doesn't appeal to me

Well if the broadcaster uses digital satellite (like BBC, ITV etc) then viewers still have the option of watching "out-of-region" programming

Telefís · 25-02-2006 1:02am

A good observation - but even then surely any regional services in Ireland would be adopted on such a small scale as to be limited to individual programme or programme segment opt-outs rather than entire dedicated channels as per BBC/ITV, so this choice still wouldn't be possible?

Elmo · 26-02-2006 3:18pm

Whatever about the Republic are you seriously suggesting there are "no real cultural differences" between say Boho (Fermanagh) and Brixton (London) !!!

Sorry just have too! Sorry!

I would have went with Boho (Fermanagh) and Soho (London)!

London has it's own culture I am sure most parts of britian don't conform to the London Socialites.

Most of Ireland is nothing like Dublin! What a Pity!

Sorry Mods!

Back to why regional TV is ****.

icdg · 26-02-2006 6:32pm

Guys, try Boards.ie -> Soc -> Politics if you want to discuss political issues, and please keep this tread for regional television discussion please, or it will be closed.

watty · 26-02-2006 8:09pm

Ooops!

However with transponder costs now similar to Sky EPG costs even for Ireland having five versions of RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 on satellite is likely less than the cost of running three main RTE TX sites of Maghera, Kippure and Mulliganish.

The main obsticle to good regional progamming and good national programming is the same. Money.

Paulobrien · 13-04-2006 2:19am

Hi,

The 80's "reigonal" TV was just that RTE would take progs eg Kerry winning an all Ireland along with other archive stuff that kad a eg Kerry reference, bang a few hours back to back for 3 hours and broadcast them from Donnybrook.... HOWEVER, the teck heads at the tx sites all around Ireland (except eg Kerry) were told to unplug the feed leads and hence people just picked up a blank black screen for 3 hours! As ever some of the lad forgot and people in Donegal were watcking RTE Kerry TV.

Most of this was RTE heads in a panic about so called "Pirates" destroying them on a local level around Ireland and trying to anticipate future threats 9remember Chnl D TV and NOVA TV.

Paul

Antenna · 17-04-2006 10:07am

Paulobrien wrote:

Hi,

The 80's "reigonal" TV was just that RTE would take progs eg Kerry winning an all Ireland along with other archive stuff that kad a eg Kerry reference, bang a few hours back to back for 3 hours and broadcast them from Donnybrook.... HOWEVER, the teck heads at the tx sites all around Ireland (except eg Kerry) were told to unplug the feed leads and hence people just picked up a blank black screen for 3 hours! As ever some of the lad forgot and people in Donegal were watcking RTE Kerry TV.

Paul

I vaguely remember that - it was for the 25th anniversary of RTE TV - These regional archive shows were being shown during the afternoon, I think different regions (corresponding to coverage of the main transmitters) took turns one at a time of having these programmes - though why RTE blocked other regions from seeing them - at times during the afternoon before regular programmes commenced anyway - I don't know??

I recall one afternoon being able to hear, but not see (just a colour bars test card) programmes for a different region (via Mullaghanish) - can't remember what region I was hearing.

bungeecork · 09-07-2006 10:26am

Ahhh, I remember that the regions were getting their shows in sequence and not simulteanously and wondering why.

Still I've read that the twice weekly changeover between Thames/LWT was just as "manual".

Chillwithcian · 22-06-2007 5:37pm

watty wrote:

The main obsticle to good regional progamming and good national programming is the same. Money.

Im sure though they could offer some form of regional programming, but like everything in Ireland there is no will or vision (and the reluctane to break open the piggy bank).

Would it really be that hard to broadcast about 20 mins of regional news to say 4 regions RTE Connought, Lenstir, Munster, and Ulster?

Sponge Bob · 22-06-2007 6:11pm

do you mean daily or weekly ??? arguably they do 5 minutes daily with Nationwide if you divide 20 mins of program by 4 . Ulster is too small so stick Donegal in Connacght and the other 2 in leinster . Called the abolished Ulster 'out of yer box in dubbelin '

Elmo · 23-06-2007 1:06pm

do you mean daily or weekly ??? arguably they do 5 minutes daily with Nationwide if you divide 20 mins of program by 4 . Ulster is too small so stick Donegal in Connacght and the other 2 in leinster . Called the abolished Ulster 'out of yer box in dubbelin '

Why not included the 6 counties with the other 3 and have RTE Ulster? After all RTE do broadcast in the 6 counties.

IMO we don't need regional TV in this country. Regional TV is destroying British TV.

What we need is more National TV coming from regions out side of Dublin.

TG4 is a prime example of good TV from Ireland, and it doesn't involve anyone from Donnybrook or Ballymount.

Chillwithcian · 23-06-2007 5:38pm

Elmo wrote:

IMO we don't need regional TV in this country. Regional TV is destroying British TV.

I disagree. Before ITV became ITvPLC and merged most of its Regions into a single on air ITV1 Ident on the 22nd oct 2002 (with the exclusions of SMG for Scotland and UTV in the north, and Channel (to a certain extent :rolleyes:) Regional TV was extreamley popular in England. Each ITV Region had some unique programmes to suit its local genre and people loved it and responded well to it...there was even some anger/rivalry bewtween BBC/ITV because the BBC was only providing the bare minimum news opt - outs and very littles programming locally (Look how the roles changed!). People were infuriated when ITV closed down there local stations, as could be seen with london weekend telivision LWT in London, a fan site has even been set up to honour its memory! http://www.ultimate-lwt.co.uk/

Can you imagine the outcry if UTV was to be pulled from the plug in the same way?

Regional TV has been good for all concerned in the UK, now its good as dead (with the exclusion of UTV and S4C, although in fairness S4C is more a standalone welsh channel than C4, not really a regional variation due to its lack of english programmes)

It wouldnt hurt to have a bit more localised news from RTE, rather then just a dublin perspective.

watty · 24-06-2007 10:21am

UK hasn't had decent regional TV for decades.

Elmo · 24-06-2007 2:06pm

I disagree. Before ITV became ITvPLC and merged most of its Regions into a single on air ITV1 Ident on the 22nd oct 2002 (with the exclusions of SMG for Scotland and UTV in the north, and Channel (to a certain extent ) Regional TV was extreamley popular in England. Each ITV Region had some unique programmes to suit its local genre and people loved it and responded well to it...there was even some anger/rivalry bewtween BBC/ITV because the BBC was only providing the bare minimum news opt - outs and very littles programming locally (Look how the roles changed!). People were infuriated when ITV closed down there local stations, as could be seen with london weekend telivision LWT in London, a fan site has even been set up to honour its memory! http://www.ultimate-lwt.co.uk/

That maybe the case, but National TV in the UK suffers from the kind of local muck like UTV Live being produced.

Soap Opera and Local TV has destroyed good British TV.

When was the last time we have seen good comedy or drama from Britian?

My Family (Phfff)
Dr. Who (Trying to hold on to something not worth holding on to)
Casualty (A Soap Opera)
The Bill (another soap opera)
Heartbeat (another soap)
The Royal (a soap spin off)
Hollyoaks, Emmers, Coro St, EastEnders
etc

What I am trying to say is that US TV has continued to be strong even in the face of Reality TV.

Ok so we don't get the local crap that is provided in the states but we do get the best of the states and there is far more of it then good British TV.

And I am not suggesting that all TV in Britian be commissioned from London. There is no reason why good TV cann't be commissioned in other regions of Britian.

The same goes for National TV in Ireland. Dublin shouldn't be the only commissioning body, Cork, Limerick, Galway.

The successes of TG4 and Lyric FM show how important it is that National TV be commission from outside of the Capital.

I would rather see a National show commissioned by people in cork, produced by people in cork, developed by people in cork then 10 mins of Cork news available only in Cork.

watty · 24-06-2007 4:37pm

IMO by total volume US TV is worse.

Chat shows, Reality TV, soaps and phone ins have virtually made TV and radio worthless for me. Increasingly I buy books & DVDs and odd CD.

Elmo · 24-06-2007 6:14pm

IMO by total volume US TV is worse.

They are still making the best TV comedies and Dramas.

Name more then one good drama/comedy from Britian that you have watched in the last year.

L1011 · 24-06-2007 8:21pm

Elmo wrote:

They are still making the best TV comedies and Dramas.

Name more then one good drama/comedy from Britian that you have watched in the last year.

I can't, offhand, name one programme from the US I've watched in the past year. Clearly I have, but they're all so similar, so ****, that they fade away almost instantly.

RTE Regional TV experiments

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