Irish Cottage insulation - help me please

cottagebound · 07-10-2014 6:42am #1

I have been recommended to use foam back plaster board on an old (1920's) stone cottage. I'm very concerned about condensation and future damp. I'm also worried about health problems coming from this product, in years to come.

Is there a better way? What is the best way? The cottage is lime rendered inside and out. Once roof and windows replaced, it should be watertight - there is no damp in the cottage at the moment after sitting empty and unheated for a number of years.

I want to do the work right the first time so I'm asking all you experts.

much appreciated.

MicktheMan · 07-10-2014 9:14pm

cottagebound wrote: »

I have been recommended to use foam back plaster board on an old (1920's) stone cottage. I'm very concerned about condensation and future damp. I'm also worried about health problems coming from this product, in years to come.

1.Is there a better way? What is the best way? The cottage is lime rendered inside and out. Once roof and windows replaced, it should be watertight - there is no damp in the cottage at the moment after sitting empty and unheated for a number of years.

2.I want to do the work right the first time so I'm asking all you experts.

much appreciated.

1. Yes. What has been recommended to you is a very poor specification and will more than likely lead to what you are concerned about. There are some options open to you, some of which are site specific and some personal preference. All options have budget implications. See 2 below.
2. If you want it done correctly the 1st time then seek out a professional who has a history and experience in such sensitive renovations.

BryanF · 07-10-2014 9:51pm

Insulation: Research breathable alternatives - they will be more expensive but will reduce condensation issues. Look at hemplime, calcium silicate, wood fibre, aerogel..
Ventilation: additional insulation & air-tightness must be balanced with adequate ventilation. Modern houses have mechanical systems, alternatively your looking at the less effective hole in the wall of window vents which some might say defeats the effectiveness of insulation.
Windows should be detailed to avoid water ingress but also achieve thermal continuity & air-tightness
Roof should be looked at by structural eng and should consider thermal continuity at wall plate (wall junction) and consider insulation/ membrane buildup that avoids condensation.
Sometime removing big old chimneys can be best but That depends on several factors your architect should advise on.

We could be here all day. Use the search function on boards.ie
perhap put in the key words you're not firmilar with above

cottagebound · 08-10-2014 3:31am

Thank you both for your replies. I obviously want to do this right and reduce regret later.

I want to keep the chimneys (3) as they obviously add to the look of the cottage (bungalow). I also have asthma and difficulty with mould. Aren't 2 and 3 foot thick walls insulation enough as long as roof/windows sound?

thanks again

BryanF · 08-10-2014 8:23am

cottagebound wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies. I obviously want to do this right and reduce regret later.

I want to keep the chimneys (3) as they obviously add to the look of the cottage (bungalow). I also have asthma and difficulty with mould. Aren't 2 and 3 foot thick walls insulation enough as long as roof/windows sound?

thanks again

Who is advising you? Do you have an arch on board? I'm concerned for your health, your making decisions & assumptions that may lead to mould. Seek professional advice

robclay26 · 10-10-2014 10:13am

cottagebound wrote: »

I have been recommended to use foam back plaster board on an old (1920's) stone cottage. I'm very concerned about condensation and future damp. I'm also worried about health problems coming from this product, in years to come.

Is there a better way? What is the best way? The cottage is lime rendered inside and out. Once roof and windows replaced, it should be watertight - there is no damp in the cottage at the moment after sitting empty and unheated for a number of years.

I want to do the work right the first time so I'm asking all you experts.

much appreciated.

Hi, I have to the same as you , internal insulation slabs on the line stone walks with mortar and liner render.

Did you get advice on how to go about this? I was considering
Either :
(1) remove the render and put up the slabs with a waterproof membrain and use mushrooms to fix the Slabs to the wall
(2) 3"x1" treated timber for studding and fix the slabs to it.

I am hoping to use 72mm insulated plasterboards.

But need some advice on this also.

Pm me please if you have had advice from a contractor or expert.

Thanking you

cottagebound · 12-10-2014 6:18am

HI Robclay. I am thinking we might just move into the house and get a feel for it, before we insulate. 2 and 3 foot thick walls must have some insulation properties on their own. I am loathe to insulate just for the sake of it. It could be, (for our house anyway) that living in the house (and with good ventilation) the house won't actually need insulation. Maybe I am wrong. We are replacing the roof with proper insulation and getting in new windows so hopefully that will cut out heat loss and draughts. AS for boards on the walls, I have heard all kinds of advice and most of it sounds very expensive.

Our own house has no indication of damp or mould so we are thinking it's pretty much dry and warm. WE could be wrong - we might freeze in the winter with no insulation. Our house is well plastered inside and out (proper lime )

So, instead of spending a fortune on something we might not need I think we might take a suck it and see approach.

What is your house like? Are you sure it needs insulation? Is it sound inside? Has it got good heating system? Do you plan to live in it full-time?

hexosan · 12-10-2014 7:50am

cottagebound wrote: »

HI Robclay. I am thinking we might just move into the house and get a feel for it, before we insulate. 2 and 3 foot thick walls must have some insulation properties on their own. I am loathe to insulate just for the sake of it. It could be, (for our house anyway) that living in the house (and with good ventilation) the house won't actually need insulation. Maybe I am wrong. We are replacing the roof with proper insulation and getting in new windows so hopefully that will cut out heat loss and draughts. AS for boards on the walls, I have heard all kinds of advice and most of it sounds very expensive.

Our own house has no indication of damp or mould so we are thinking it's pretty much dry and warm. WE could be wrong - we might freeze in the winter with no insulation. Our house is well plastered inside and out (proper lime )

So, instead of spending a fortune on something we might not need I think we might take a suck it and see approach.

What is your house like? Are you sure it needs insulation? Is it sound inside? Has it got good heating system? Do you plan to live in it full-time?

Here's my 2 cents, I currently live in a two foot thick stone wall house with no insulation at all and the two things I can guarantee you is in the summer you'll be baked alive at night and in the winter you'll freeze to death. There are days in the winter when is warmer outside that it in inside the house.

This is the main reason that I'm spending every penny we have insulating and making airtight the house we're currently building.
Living in this house has been a nightmare we can't wait to wake up from.

cottagebound · 12-10-2014 8:14am

Hi Hexosan, yes, I figured that might be the case. I presume the stone would heat up like an oven, retaining heat. Similar, in winter, they won't heat up, freezing all occupants.

Please tell me more as to why it's been a nightmare? Any thing else you can guide me on? That's the kind of info I need before I embark with limited cash on renovating.

robclay26 · 12-10-2014 9:57am

cottagebound wrote: »

Hi Hexosan, yes, I figured that might be the case. I presume the stone would heat up like an oven, retaining heat. Similar, in winter, they won't heat up, freezing all occupants.

Please tell me more as to why it's been a nightmare? Any thing else you can guide me on? That's the kind of info I need before I embark with limited cash on renovating.

The lime rendering plaster is the nightmare about these houses, I'm thinking of removing the internal render back to the stone and puting up studding and 72mm insulated slabs. The walls will be able to breath from the outside still I think?
I'm in the same boat, limited funds and upon the correct advice will under take the process myself as for I can't afford to pay a contractor.

hexosan · 12-10-2014 10:25am

cottagebound wrote: »

Hi Hexosan, yes, I figured that might be the case. I presume the stone would heat up like an oven, retaining heat. Similar, in winter, they won't heat up, freezing all occupants.

Please tell me more as to why it's been a nightmare? Any thing else you can guide me on? That's the kind of info I need before I embark with limited cash on renovating.

Get independent advice from an energy consultant who's not trying to sell you a product that's the best advice.
Please be under no illusion the stone wall will offer no insulation whatsoever (you seem to thing it will from previous posts).
There might not but mould now but once you move in and start living in the house, heating it, drying clothes ect, condensation will form on the cold stone walls and then mould is sure to follow. I've to bleach wash it off the wall evey so often.

hexosan · 12-10-2014 10:28am

robclay26 wrote: »

I'm thinking of removing the internal render back to the stone and puting up studding and 72mm insulated slabs. The walls will be able to breath from the outside still I think?

Incorrect I think

robclay26 · 12-10-2014 12:03pm

hexosan wrote: »

Incorrect I think

Ok, so what would be the right choice? Don't want to f up the job

hexosan · 12-10-2014 1:36pm

hexosan wrote: »

Get independent advice from an energy consultant who's not trying to sell you a product that's the best advice.

as above

cottagebound · 12-10-2014 2:14pm

We bought our cottage as it appeared sound - not lived in for a number of years but no damp, no damp marks, no mould. (allergic!).

I will take on board what you said about living in it and damp starting (drying clothes, etc). Have to put in ventilation for sure.

BryanF · 12-10-2014 2:42pm

cottagebound wrote: »

We bought our cottage as it appeared sound - not lived in for a number of years but no damp, no damp marks, no mould. (allergic!).

I will take on board what you said about living in it and damp starting (drying clothes, etc). Have to put in ventilation for sure.

You seem to be selective in the information your willing to accept.
Please Come back an tell us next year how you get on

cottagebound · 12-10-2014 6:43pm

Dear Bryan F - your gratuitous comment achieved what? I, like others are seeking info.

This isn't the place for that.

sydthebeat · 13-10-2014 4:02pm

cottagebound wrote: »

Dear Bryan F - your gratuitous comment achieved what? I, like others are seeking info.

This isn't the place for that.

what does your professional advise?
what materials are they suggesting?

robclay26 · 14-10-2014 7:51pm

Well, I had an insulation guy call out today with experience on this type of house with 2ft thick lime stone walls etc.

He said best solution for insulation is 4" of external insukation.

Have another company calling tomorrow, will post what they say

cottagebound · 15-10-2014 6:51am

I will be interested to hear Robclay.

Guill · 15-10-2014 8:48am

-snip-
They came out and did a report on my house with all suggestions you could need. At a price of course. They also have a pretty useful site (picture wise) on some of the work they do. IMO, DO NOT put anything on the walls that will stop them breathing. Old construction and newer construction are two completely different animals, I'm assuming it's lime built? Lime will carry water through the wall and dissipate it outside. If it can't then you get damp. Modern walls don't work like that and that's why they are vented.

People complain about damp in old houses but the problem is generally down to someone trapping the moisture inside.

Guill.

My house:http://imgur.com/gallery/h1sKX

D_D · 15-10-2014 1:28pm

Guill wrote: »

-snip-
They came out and did a report on my house with all suggestions you could need. At a price of course. They also have a pretty useful site (picture wise) on some of the work they do. IMO, DO NOT put anything on the walls that will stop them breathing. Old construction and newer construction are two completely different animals, I'm assuming it's lime built? Lime will carry water through the wall and dissipate it outside. If it can't then you get damp. Modern walls don't work like that and that's why they are vented.

People complain about damp in old houses but the problem is generally down to someone trapping the moisture inside.

Guill.

My house:http://imgur.com/gallery/h1sKX

Is this yourselves?

http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/cottage-renovation-ireland-thatch-1725736-Oct2014/

Guill · 15-10-2014 2:08pm

Indeed.

cottagebound · 15-10-2014 3:16pm

600,000 views Guill - wow - got any more links?

Guill · 15-10-2014 3:24pm

cottagebound wrote: »

600,000 views Guill - wow - got any more links?

No that's it for now, I have 100's of pictures from day 1 till yesterday. I only threw up a few pics the other night as I was looking over them. I'll throw up more another day.

D_D · 15-10-2014 4:16pm

Guill wrote: »

No that's it for now, I have 100's of pictures from day 1 till yesterday. I only threw up a few pics the other night as I was looking over them. I'll throw up more another day.

Front page of Reddit is a big deal (well, only a big deal if you follow Reddit).

Fair play. Now I can understand why you needed to call in a specialist to advise you on the insulation.

Just wondering though, if you go with external insulation, will this not just make the cottage look 'modern' anyway, just as if it was rebuilt?

Not to put you off doing the work, just a genuine question...

Good luck with it anyway!

Guill · 15-10-2014 4:21pm

It was a bit of a shock, went to bed with 200 views, woke up with 200,000!
I won't be adding external insulation, or internal for that matter. The walls will be .5 meter thick lime rendered. I'll suck it and see from there, if i do decide in a few years that I need insulation I'll add to the inside.

R P McMurphy · 15-10-2014 8:30pm

Guill wrote: »

It was a bit of a shock, went to bed with 200 views, woke up with 200,000!
I won't be adding external insulation, or internal for that matter. The walls will be .5 meter thick lime rendered. I'll suck it and see from there, if i do decide in a few years that I need insulation I'll add to the inside.

Is it a house you are going to live in or a holiday home? I am going with limecrete on internal walls, ecocork on some of the outside.

BryanF · 15-10-2014 9:01pm

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Is it a house you are going to live in or a holiday home? I am going with limecrete on internal walls, ecocork on some of the outside.

We'd love to see some photos of the phases of limecrete install? I'm keen to see your plasterers finish.

robclay26 · 24-10-2014 6:49pm

Well after a few consultations with insulation installation companies, they recommended studding, moisture barrier and insulated plasterboards to do the walls or to fix external insulation to the house.

useruser · 25-10-2014 10:19am

robclay26 wrote: »

Well after a few consultations with insulation installation companies, they recommended studding, moisture barrier and insulated plasterboards to do the walls or to fix external insulation to the house.

I am also renovating an old cottage/farmhouse that has rubble stone walls with lime plaster. The best advice that I have been able to find is to ensure that both inside and outside renders are completely breathable / permeable. In my case I am not going to insulate the walls inside or out as I don't think the cost is worth it and the money can be better spent elsewhere (roof / floor / windows). Insulating inside takes quite a lot of space from rooms that are already small. Also, I don't like the look of walls that have been insulated as it changes the character of the wall completely from a traditional rough finish.

Irish Cottage insulation - help me please

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