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kildeal.ie is it a joke

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24

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    #32
    aidan_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    uturnin6weeks wrote: »
    What do you do if Kildeal.ie is hosting your site on an Indian server in India? How can you get ftp codes to change it to a Irish hosting site. Can't make contact with Kildeal people???
    You'll have to deal with them.


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    #33
    Axwell
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Check the charter, no hosting talk. This isnt their support site, all you can do is email them and keep ringing them. Would seem to only support the fact they arent the great sales people Information was talking about.


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    #34
    information
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    Axwell wrote:
    The customer might want a cheap site but thats cos they dont realise the benefits of having a site designed properly to standards. Like anything else you get what you pay for, paying for a cheap templated site will only hurt the customer in the long run and have them forking out again for a proper site down the line when the cheap one they get doesnt rank well in google, doesnt work on all browsers and looks cheap and tacky.
    Solarpitch wrote: »
    I agree. A guy came to me before looking for an e commerce solution and showed me what a previous company was working on before he gave up on them. He gave up on them because he was asking for design and feature changes and the company wasn't able to deliver... why?

    .. the company simply downloaded the free e commerce solution Zen Cart, changed the logo and uploaded it to his server. They were trying to charge him upwards of €3, 500 for the development.

    The guy hadn't clue about websites or development. I felt the comapny was taking advantage of this by dishing out a quick fix solution for him that would hurt him in the long run!
    Completely different,
    Paying € 395 to get a brochure website up and running is not being ripped off.
    Paying 3.5k to get a ecommerce cart installed is.


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    #35
    uturnin6weeks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭uturnin6weeks


    aidan_walsh wrote: »
    You'll have to deal with them.

    How because I cannot make contact no reply from office/mobile? Been trying now for over a month


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    #36
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Axwell wrote: »
    Thats all well in good if you are getting traffic and sales from your crap website and then you decide to get a better one, but if the crap website isnt getting you any traffic or sales then it is a waste of money. A good designer/developer would sit down with the person and discuss their needs and point out whats available to them and the features they could have and then design a site for them that would do everything they want. Also depending on what the site is about a badly done site will never even be found doing a google search.
    Nobody can guarantee sales on a website no matter how much money you spend on its design or development. That is why it is good to get a starting point if you don't know anything about websites i.e. at a least one page up there with your contact details and a bit about the company and the services offered. Get used to the idea of having a website and using the email address etc. Obviously if a person is more clued in and knows what they want then they should go and hire a good designer and developer to make what they want and pay that 2/3k+ to get it - but there are many out there that do not know. 400 euro for such a (crap) website is not a bad price and is not rip off.

    Many small business people will not understand what they really want from a website since they don't understand the whole thing - they get hit with SEO, CMS, hosting, domains etc etc and their heads are spinning thus cannot make proper informed decisions. They are then relying on the web designer which can really be hit and miss and still doesnt guarantee *any* sales. The business person then realises that the website they have spent 2/3k on is not really want they want or need - so what do they do? Spend another 2/3k?

    I think you are wrong about a badly done website will never be found using a google search. Google searches the text not the design - granted a proper layout and coding can help. It may mean that the website might not be listed top for generic terms but you cannot say it will not be found using google.

    To give an example, I put up a one page website for a friend of mine 2 months ago with barely any graphics (no design as such) with just information about the company (contact details, about the company and services offered) - it was for an electrician. Now if you search "electrician <town name>" in google, the website comes up in the 3rd position.


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    #37
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    uturnin6weeks wrote: »
    What do you do if Kildeal.ie is hosting your site on an Indian server in India? How can you get ftp codes to change it to a Irish hosting site. Can't make contact with Kildeal people???

    I'm nearly certain Kildeal are Hostgator resellers (i.e. US based servers @ theplanet)

    For non-streaming websites, users will not notice any difference between a US and an Irish based server.


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    #38
    Axwell
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    axer wrote: »
    you cannot say it will not be found using google.

    What im saying is depending on the type of business they might not have much competition on the web, your mates site might have come up under a search as there wasnt many people providing the same service but if there was loads of competition up there on google under the same search terms people arent going to stay on a crap website when there is a better one offering the same service.
    In my opinion its part of the designer/developers job to sit down with the client and exlain all these terms to them and what they mean and discuss with them what they need on a site. With any service you are talking to a professional and seeking their expertise and advice as much as the web site or service they offer. Would you plumb your own house and then go to a professional plumber later when you decide you want it done better or would you get a qualified person in to do the job right from the start?


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    #39
    uturnin6weeks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭uturnin6weeks


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I'm nearly certain Kildeal are Hostgator resellers (i.e. US based servers @ theplanet)

    For non-streaming websites, users will not notice any difference between a US and an Irish based server.


    No I don't think so. I had a friend check it and he said its pointing to a server in India.


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    #40
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    information wrote: »
    Completely different,
    Paying € 395 to get a brochure website up and running is not being ripped off.
    Paying 3.5k to get a ecommerce cart installed is.

    If the ecommerce site was being set up only for that customer then no I wouldn't see that as being ripped off. As it would most likely have to hook into a back end system and implement all manners of security, workflow, business logic, etc.

    but you can get cheap third party ecommerce.

    I think the crux of the issue with the sites is, is this person passing the templates off as their own work? If they are then yea I can see why people would be annoyed.


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    #41
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Axwell wrote: »
    What im saying is depending on the type of business they might not have much competition on the web, your mates site might have come up under a search as there wasnt many people providing the same service but if there was loads of competition up there on google under the same search terms people arent going to stay on a crap website when there is a better one offering the same service.
    When it comes to businesses that rely on the website for their business e.g. online shops then it does matter since that is business critical but for a large group of small businesses out there it is not that bad of an idea to get a cheap website done first - I see nothing wrong with those companies offering those cheap services either since they are targeted at that market. You cannot brush them off as dodgy business people out for a quick buck.
    Axwell wrote: »
    In my opinion its part of the designer/developers job to sit down with the client and exlain all these terms to them and what they mean and discuss with them what they need on a site. With any service you are talking to a professional and seeking their expertise and advice as much as the web site or service they offer. Would you plumb your own house and then go to a professional plumber later when you decide you want it done better or would you get a qualified person in to do the job right from the start?
    No matter how much you sit down with some people they will not be much, if any at all, the wiser since there is so much new information and terms for them to deal with.

    You are not guaranteed any sales no matter how much is spent for a great designer/developer.

    There is a huge different between a plumber and a website that is not mission critical. Bad analogy.


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    #42
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    uturnin6weeks wrote: »
    No I don't think so. I had a friend check it and he said its pointing to a server in India.

    I checked it myself and the servers are in the US.

    PM me your website address and I'll check where it is hosted.


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    #43
    Solarpitch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Solarpitch


    Hobbes wrote: »
    If the ecommerce site was being set up only for that customer then no I wouldn't see that as being ripped off. As it would most likely have to hook into a back end system and implement all manners of security, workflow, business logic, etc.

    but you can get cheap third party ecommerce.

    The e commerce solution they were providing (Zen Cart) has a complete backend. The only implementation needed would be an SSL Certificate if they were gonna process sales on the site, but Zen Cart is ready to be installed with paypal and what not so an SSL is not a must.

    If the solution is an Open Source... FREE.. solution.. you shouldnt be selling it as your own. This is slightly off the Kildeal point, put just wanted to clear up what the company was giving to the end user.


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    #44
    Axwell
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    axer wrote: »
    You cannot brush them off as dodgy business people out for a quick buck.

    We are talking about a particular company here, kildeal. Based on the fact that someone has posted here just now saying they cant contact them for the last month along with the other stuff posted previously i think i can rightly brush them off as a dodgy business out for a quick buck.
    There is a huge different between a plumber and a website that is not mission critical. Bad analogy.

    Not really, for good business and getting your name out there a website is mission critical these days. If you want the job done right get a professional. You dont have to pay thousands and over the odds to get a professional job done but going with the cheapest option is gonna hurt in the long run.


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    #45
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Axwell wrote: »
    We are talking about a particular company here, kildeal. Based on the fact that someone has posted here just now saying they cant contact them for the last month along with the other stuff posted previously i think i can rightly brush them off as a dodgy business out for a quick buck.
    Information which was given *after* you were labeling them as dodgy because they target the lower end of the market. You do not know why the poster is unable to contact the business either you are just presuming.
    Axwell wrote: »
    Not really, for good business and getting your name out there a website is mission critical these days. If you want the job done right get a professional. You dont have to pay thousands and over the odds to get a professional job done but going with the cheapest option is gonna hurt in the long run.
    I disagree, there are many more areas where it is more important to the 2/3k when starting a business than on a high end website. It is not a high priority nor is it cost effective for many small businesses out there thus there is a valid market for cheap templated websites. I don't think it is a rip off to charge 400 euro for a cheap website - it would be to pass the website off as being an original design or if they charged the same amount as a professional designer/developer.

    Later on the website can be redeveloped when the business owner learns more about what they want/need. 400 euro is not a lot extra to have to pay overall.


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    #46
    donnaille
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭donnaille


    information wrote: »
    I only started posting because I feel it was a cowardly attack on the company
    OP
    kildeal.ie is it a joke
    Is http://www.kildeal.ie/ legitimate
    can't believe people are actually paying this company money
    I find it hard to believe how people go for this service.

    Everyone here seems to be too focused on design issues, to be logical.
    So try this:
    Your selling cars, a customer comes in and says "I need a simple basic car to drive to the train station everyday".
    Would you sell them the 10 year old toyota for a grand, that does what they want, or would you tell them about all the features they could have if they went for the latest X, that costs 50k.
    Some customer just want a website with basic details to put on their cards/letter heads, that tells of their services.

    If you guys are so sure you know whats best, why don't you offer the next customer you get the option of a template, that you customise, at the appropiate rate compared to what you would charge for a bespoke site.
    See what they say ?
    You never know, you might scrap the time consuming, always needing to follow new trends, method of bespoke development and go directly into competition with the company in this thread, you would have the advantage of being superior developers.
    Selective memory, I've already stated that I was opening discussion on the topic and seeing if like minded people shared my view. Once again by your own rules is this a cowardly attack on me?:rolleyes:


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    #47
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    The Client knows his/her business and, while it may not be the case, should be assumed to not have a clue about the technology.

    The Developer knows the technology and, while it may not be the case, should be assumed to not have a clue about the client's business.

    Thus the process of successfully applying technology so as to enable an ROI for the client is one of careful and open minded analysis between the two that results in a solution that leverages the technology to the benefit of a client's business.

    Forgive the consultant-speak, but the above is not really all that complicated to grasp, but seemingly there are lots of developers and clients who think they know it all nonetheless which results in most of the shíte out there.


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    #48
    EKRIUQ
    Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    donnaille wrote: »
    Selective memory, I've already stated that I was opening discussion on the topic and seeing if like minded people shared my view. Once again by your own rules is this a cowardly attack on me?:rolleyes:

    No it's not, you attacked another company comparing them to being a Joke and questioning their legality that's more that opening a discussion on the topic more like a disgruntled customer or competitor. "Information" and others are merely pointing out the flaws in your argument considering a representative of Killdeal.ie isn't here.


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    #49
    donnaille
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭donnaille


    Namesco wrote: »
    No it's not, you attacked another company comparing them to being a Joke and questioning their legality that's more that opening a discussion on the topic more like a disgruntled customer or competitor. "Information" and others are merely pointing out the flaws in your argument considering a representative of Killdeal.ie isn't here.

    They claim to offer "websites that stand out from the crowd" which is not true as they are templates, and as I said it wasn't meant as an attack.
    Can't see any other posts pointing out the flaws.


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    #50
    information
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    donnaille wrote: »
    Once again by your own rules is this a cowardly attack on me?:rolleyes:
    You're here to defend yourself so it's a fair fight, the company you attacked are not, so it's cowardly.

    You could easily have opened a discussion on companies churning out template sites in general, without attacking a specific company.
    I know what you stated, but given the level of animosity, I don't believe you just wanted to discuss template companies.
    donnaille wrote:

    kildeal.ie is it a joke

    Is http://www.kildeal.ie/ legitimate

    can't believe people are actually paying this company money

    I find it hard to believe how people go for this service.


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    #51
    aidan_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    You could easily have opened a discussion on companies churning out template sites in general
    And since discussion has been going in that direction, lets keep it in that direction shall we folks?


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    #52
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    The Client knows his/her business and, while it may not be the case, should be assumed to not have a clue about the technology.

    The Developer knows the technology and, while it may not be the case, should be assumed to not have a clue about the client's business.

    Thus the process of successfully applying technology so as to enable an ROI for the client is one of careful and open minded analysis between the two that results in a solution that leverages the technology to the benefit of a client's business.
    all in the ideal world of course.


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    #53
    donnaille
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭donnaille


    You're here to defend yourself so it's a fair fight, the company you attacked are not, so it's cowardly.
    Ok fair point, but as I have said I never meant it as an attack in anyway I'm just surprised how they are getting business with the state that their own website is in and also how they don't make it clear that the €395 is for a templated site.


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    #54
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    donnaille wrote: »
    Ok fair point, but as I have said I never meant it as an attack in anyway I'm just surprised how they are getting business with the state that their own website is in and also how they don't make it clear that the €395 is for a templated site.
    If they do get business with their bad website does that not prove their practice that bad cheap websites will still get business.


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    #55
    donnaille
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭donnaille


    axer wrote: »
    If they do get business with their bad website does that not prove their practice that bad cheap websites will still get business.
    Never said they didn't, I said I found it hard to believe. Is this just arguing for fun now?


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    #56
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    donnaille wrote: »
    Never said they didn't, I said I found it hard to believe. Is this just arguing for fun now?
    My point is valid. If they do get business with their badly designed/built website then it shows that the crap they produce, which seems to be better than their own website even though templates, could also help a client get business.

    I remember reading a study that showed that most people don't pay attention to the designs of websites once they can get the information they want easily enough - can't remember where I read it though.


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    #57
    information
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    There is a market for cheap simple websites.

    I work in a software company, because it's IT, I get lots of my clients asking me about websites (which we don't do). "we need to get a website sorted, do you know anyone". I know a good few ladz doing it, so I pass on their details.

    My client will say that the price is madness and all they want is a website that looks like their brochures with contact details, product info etc..

    If any of you guys are finding times tough, offer the template option to clients, (even rebrand it as a different company), say to clients
    given us the info you wnat on the site,
    offer then 2 or 3 templates ask them to choose what they want.
    Charge them 300 and you'll clean up.

    I am seriously considering doing it myself and getting some guy to do the customisation (take 2 hours max) * €50 = € 100, € 200 for my time selling it (1 hour).
    That's before you get hosting and domain fees + maintenance.

    So its.

    What do you want ?
    Nice looking website with your product and contact details, that you can use to promote your business online.

    How much does it cost ?
    € 300* (we can do hosting and domain name also at extra price)

    How does it work ?
    You email us the text you want on the site.
    We show you 3 options, you pick the one you like.
    Pay us the money and the site goes live (we can do it in lees than a day)

    What happens if I need to update my details ?
    We will do content updates to your site for € 20 per go.


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    #58
    information
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭information


    You could probably even automate a script to do it.
    The €200 euro website

    0: pick domain name

    1: Enter Company Name

    2: Upload Company Logo ( link to explain how, file format ) No logo we can do one from €50

    3: Enter contact details

    4: Enter product or service name
    5: Enter product or serivice details
    REPEAT

    6:Enter Company details to appear on front page.

    Script takes all the details purts it in an xml file, then links to several different style sheets, get client to pick one.

    Go to payment screen, enter CC details, site goes live (takes a where for name to come through)


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    #59
    yeraulone
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭yeraulone


    *shudders*


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    #60
    CuLT
    Subscribers Posts: 9,716 ✭✭✭CuLT


    I think people are quick to confuse web businesses with brick and mortar businesses. There's a big difference between a site where the site is the business and a brochure site for a carpet retail company.

    Free market economics determine whether a business is successful or not. If making bargain basement websites is all people need, then bargain basement web developers will prevail.
    One could of course assume that, as a result, "samey" template websites will saturate and mature the market, creating a desire for unique websites amongst regular businesses. One could assume that's the long tail (but it may not be all that long).

    If you're ahead of the curve you might be a bit tight for a couple of years... if you're a "designer" before you're a businessperson (but that argument may as well be Mac vs PC). There's talk of a big move this year to the web as a marketing platform, but there's also a global economic turndown.

    Personally, I think a smart freelancer or small web dev company would be prepared for both bargain basement and highly tailored solutions. Creating simple template sites where you can jam in a logo or change a colour scheme, and create these sites such that it will be easy for you to migrate the "simple" site into a more complicated big brother if/when the company desires it.

    a) you can make some fast money at the low end
    a.1) corollary: you have capital
    b) you develop a large, satisfied client list fast
    b.1) corollary: your name is spreading
    b.2) corollary: you create future opportunities for yourself

    If you don't try to trick people into thinking they're getting something they're not you'll be running a respected, well off business.


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    #61
    Sherifu
    Registered Users Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    *clicks kildeal.ie* my eyes! my eyes! *hits back button*


This discussion has been closed.
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