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Dublin Bus Network Review

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  • Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭Conway635


    The 17 and 17A were numbered as such because they were two parts of what was eventually supposed to be a three part orbital system - the 17 and 17A are Southside and Northside East-West orbitals, there was eventually going to be a third on the west side linking the two, but in the end it didn't happen.

    Number would have been 17B for the third leg.

    (the 17B number was used unofficially at times for varients of the main routes - there was a northside 17B which was a summer Sunday extension to Bull Island, while on the southside the number was often displayed for Belfield short-workings in the days of scrolls (last saw this in use in 2008).

    When the 17/A were created, they were similar in another way - both were one-man single-deck operated at a time when most of the city routes were two-man double-deck.

    (other OMO routes at the time were 27/A, 36/A, 44B, 52, 53A, 59, 70, 80, 85, 88, while 46, 47/B and 63 were two-man single-deck, and 36B was mixed OMO single-deck and crew double-deck). I say "men" in this case correctly, as there were no women drivers at this stage.

    C635


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    Well once again Dublin Bus have shown themselves up as the bastard of a company they really are, RTPI this evening showing a 40 from College Green to Liffey Valley at 2110hrs, bus disappeared completely from RTPI and has left me stranded with no choice but to leave me pay for a taxi home!! I'm disgusted!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Last bus from city centre was clearly advertised as 21:00.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Last bus from city centre was clearly advertised as 21:00.
    Not on RTPI. Was it wrong for me to think that the bus was slightly delayed by 10 mins coming from Finglas to Town.

    During the week the last 40 regularly doesn't get to College Green until 2340.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    Why couldn't Dublin Bus do the simple thing of twiging the RTPI system to show buses running from Finglas to City Centre ONLY, instead of showing them running from Finglas to Liffey Valley??

    Nah, That would be too easy for them!! Better to contradict the "clear" advertising with false advertising on Real Time boards isn't it. Anyway Happy Christmas to all in 59 upper OConnell!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭A2000


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Last bus from city centre was clearly advertised as 21:00.[/Quot

    yet the rtpi on db site was showing 13 & 40 as operating to last bus and usual departures up until 22.30


  • Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭curryman


    BenShermin wrote: »
    Well once again Dublin Bus have shown themselves up as the bastard of a company they really are, RTPI this evening showing a 40 from College Green to Liffey Valley at 2110hrs, bus disappeared completely from RTPI and has left me stranded with no choice but to leave me pay for a taxi home!! I'm disgusted!!!!

    Were you using the DB web site for your info or the street displays. As both seemed to be out of sync all day. I was at 46a stop on nassau st tonight. On street display saying no rtpi info. Yet DB web site said next 46a was at 21.15. This was 20.48 about 20sec after checking the web a 46a arrived much to my delight. You do have to remember its not DB that are running the RTPI service but Either Dub City council or NTA or these http://www.transportforireland.ie/


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    BenShermin wrote: »
    Not on RTPI. Was it wrong for me to think that the bus was slightly delayed by 10 mins coming from Finglas to Town.

    During the week the last 40 regularly doesn't get to College Green until 2340.

    On Christmas Eve, frankly yes it was - it doesn't excuse the error but the last bus has always left at 21:00 on Christmas Eve and I certainly would not have taken that risk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,073 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    On Christmas Eve, the street displays were mostly blank, but I found the RTPI to be working OK on the DB web site.


  • Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭stop


    vienne86 wrote: »
    On Christmas Eve, the street displays were mostly blank, but I found the RTPI to be working OK on the DB web site.

    This - all signs were turned off! Why!? Loads of last minute shoppers annoyed over it. Is it that hard for db/nta to make changes to the system to facilitate the early shut down? At the very least the signs should have had info about last buses leaving at 2100 etc


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    lxflyer wrote: »
    BenShermin wrote: »
    Not on RTPI. Was it wrong for me to think that the bus was slightly delayed by 10 mins coming from Finglas to Town.

    During the week the last 40 regularly doesn't get to College Green until 2340.

    On Christmas Eve, frankly yes it was - it doesn't excuse the error but the last bus has always left at 21:00 on Christmas Eve and I certainly would not have taken that risk.

    Is there a reason you are defending Dublin Bus / the NTA when clearly real time was wrong and that has to be the fault of DB or the NTA or both?

    A few buses can often leave after the official cut off time and real time is supposed to correct it self when a bus is running late.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I'm not defending the error - I clearly stated that it does not excuse the error. I'm saying that Ben Shermin took an unnecessary risk, knowing the final departure is scheduled at 21:00.

    The last buses are scheduled at 21:00 from the City Centre on Christmas Eve and I would not take the risk (RTPI or no RTPI) that the bus was operating later than that.

    Having taken the 21:00 departure on Christmas Eve on my route for the last 5 years I have seen the "charge of the light brigade" of buses down through D'Olier Street that happens and I certainly would never take the risk of being at the stop after 21:00. The risk of it being late on Christmas Eve is miniscule - there is no traffic out there!

    We have all read of the problems here with RTPI and this is one of them - short workings not coming up on the RTPI properly due to the AVLC not being correctly reset.

    All I can suggest is that Ben Shermin contacts DB and tries to claim the taxi fare back - after all they provided dud information.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,284 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    vienne86 wrote: »
    On Christmas Eve, the street displays were mostly blank, but I found the RTPI to be working OK on the DB web site.

    Most of the displays on the street I've seen yesterday said 'There is No Real Time Info Available'.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    If the RTPI cant be relied upon then what's the point? It is supposed to provide the most up to date info.


  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭A2000


    parsi wrote: »
    If the RTPI cant be relied upon then what's the point? It is supposed to provide the most up to date info.[/Quo


    no rtpi info at all today 26th


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Just to show how long it is since CIE/ Dublin Bus actually had a functional Automatic Bus Monitoring system........

    http://www.dublin.ie/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89578&stc=1&d=1324720860

    http://www.dublin.ie/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89577&stc=1&d=1324720846

    Imagine,senior people from Toronto and Stockholm having to come to DUBLIN to look into the future....no good will come of it sez I.

    Yep...those pictures are from 1977....why the company was never able to develop,expand or improve the system remains the stuff of Irish legend....:rolleyes:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭thomasj


    lxflyer wrote: »
    BenShermin wrote: »
    Not on RTPI. Was it wrong for me to think that the bus was slightly delayed by 10 mins coming from Finglas to Town.

    During the week the last 40 regularly doesn't get to College Green until 2340.

    On Christmas Eve, frankly yes it was - it doesn't excuse the error but the last bus has always left at 21:00 on Christmas Eve and I certainly would not have taken that risk.

    But bear in mind, there are alot of people who this time last year would have known to get their bus at locations such as aston quay, parnell street etc.

    Okay, the 21.00 departures would have been as per the normal 23.30 departures but common sense would have seen the christmas eve notice mention that the 21.00hrs departures were to and from the city centre.

    The christmas eve notice was a disgrace. Because of the fact that some of the routes with city centre terminuses had become cross city routes with terminuses further afield, there were people out there that made the mistake of thinking the 21.00hrs departure to their destination was from tallaght, finglas, coolock, dundrum etc and not the city centre. I am aware of a few. The driver of the bus i was on wasnt 100% himself and had to think about it!

    As someone who works for a very public website used by all walks of life, if i hadve handed in the christmas eve information on the db website to my boss to publish it on the website, i would've had the head torn off me and warned not to hand in such material again! Why? Because a news item is not supposed to leave someone with more questions than answers. Its akin to tesco or dunnes advising that some stores will be open late but not saying the stores or how late. The last thing these supermarkets want is everyone ringing up looking for more information. The news items are meant to be enough information for people.

    If there is a new years resolution db need to take into 2012, its to start thinking more like the passenger. They promised it in network direct!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    I'll get back to my Christmas Eve mess some other time. But once again this evening Route 40 has fulfilled its duty as an amazing improvement to public transport to the west Dublin Communties that it serves!

    According to RTPI there is an hour wait between 40 services this evening from Finglas to Liffey Valley. I was under the impression that the timetable stated every 20mins. I'm ****ing sick of this shambles of a route a this stage to be honest!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭howiya


    Route 27 is starting to annoy me again. This morning heading to work from Tallaght, we get to Eden Quay and the driver announces that we have to wait here for the next driver who should be here in about 15 minutes because we are ahead of schedule due to the light traffic...

    Exact same thing happened last week except the driver wasn't polite enough to inform passengers why there was a delay.

    Not going many stops further than Eden Quay so just got off and walked


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    howiya wrote: »
    Route 27 is starting to annoy me again. This morning heading to work from Tallaght, we get to Eden Quay and the driver announces that we have to wait here for the next driver who should be here in about 15 minutes because we are ahead of schedule due to the light traffic...

    Exact same thing happened last week except the driver wasn't polite enough to inform passengers why there was a delay.

    Not going many stops further than Eden Quay so just got off and walked

    An excellent decision Howiya,especially bearing in mind that one of the National Transport Authority's stated Objectives is to facilitate "Increased recourse to cycling and walking as means of transport."....and it's using your initiative to overcome a slight annoyance ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    BenShermin wrote: »
    I'll get back to my Christmas Eve mess some other time. But once again this evening Route 40 has fulfilled its duty as an amazing improvement to public transport to the west Dublin Communties that it serves!

    According to RTPI there is an hour wait between 40 services this evening from Finglas to Liffey Valley. I was under the impression that the timetable stated every 20mins. I'm ****ing sick of this shambles of a route a this stage to be honest!!!

    I'm afraid you were far from being alone in this.

    I noticed buses missing on several routes over the last two days - presumably down to a lack of drivers, perhaps who have called in sick. This has happened every year that I can remember on the week between Christmas and New Year. It is frankly not good enough.

    Why a full weekday service is operated is beyond me - it is way in excess of what is needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    howiya wrote: »
    Route 27 is starting to annoy me again. This morning heading to work from Tallaght, we get to Eden Quay and the driver announces that we have to wait here for the next driver who should be here in about 15 minutes because we are ahead of schedule due to the light traffic...

    Exact same thing happened last week except the driver wasn't polite enough to inform passengers why there was a delay.

    Not going many stops further than Eden Quay so just got off and walked

    This again poses the question - what form the city bus service should take?

    Should it continue with the current model, with running times based on schools traffic, and timed only at departure points or driver change locations, or should it switch to a fully timetabled route, which would mean buses waiting at specific points along the route if they arrive earlier than scheduled.

    The latter model would mean that on weeks such as this instead of being in town in record time buses would still take the usual time to do the trip, but people would have the predictability of knowing when the bus is going to arrive at a particular location. As it is this week I could leave almost 30 minutes later to get into town at the same time as normal.

    Or should there be a special timetable for this week as there is in Edinburgh? I certainly believe a Saturday service would be far more appropriate this week.

    They also specify here exactly what are the last bus services throughout the city on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve. Something DB could take serious lessons from in terms of communication.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,219 ✭✭✭markpb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Why a full weekday service is operated is beyond me - it is way in excess of what is needed.

    I think somewhere between the two is needed but I know that's very difficult to achieve for a timetabled service. As a taxpayer, I understand the costs associated with operating a weekday service are high but as a passenger who has to work all week, a bus with a 40 minute frequency is entirely useless to me and I'd probably end up getting a taxi instead of the bus.

    Thankfully, I'm in neither position because Luas are advertising a Saturday service (every 10-12 minutes) but seem to be running something between a weekday and Saturday service (6-8 minutes).


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    markpb wrote: »
    I think somewhere between the two is needed but I know that's very difficult to achieve. As a taxpayer, I understand the costs associated with operating a weekday service are high but as a passenger who has to work all week, a bus with a 40 minute frequency is entirely useless to me and I'd probably end up getting a taxi instead of the bus.

    Thankfully, I'm in neither position because Luas are running scheduled trams every 10-12 minutes (which in reality it seems to be around 6-8 minutes) and they're reasonably busy.

    Mark, I can't agree with you on this. The weekday morning service is ludicrous. There have been a maximum of 6 people on my inbound 16 every day this week - a service that would normally be full. Even later in the day most buses are going around half-empty.

    A Saturday service would in most cases be more than adequate for the loadings that are out there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,219 ✭✭✭markpb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    A Saturday service would in most cases be more than adequate for the loadings that are out there.

    I know that and I understand why they're doing what they do (I'm not blaming them) but I assume you understand that, from a passengers perspective (especially one who's working and not just shopping) a weekend service is awful, especially on some of the less frequent routes?

    It doesn't matter to each individual passenger what the bus loading is (that's a matter for the operator) - it only matters if they have a 30-40 minute wait, morning and evening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭SandyfordGuy


    I would agree somewhere between the two is needed as well. Saturday frequency itself would no doubt be okay, but an earlier start time more akin to weekdays would be beneficial.

    In my workplace many staff start between 8 and 8.30am. A Saturday service would require them to take a taxi in a number of cases because of the late start time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I would agree somewhere between the two is needed as well. Saturday frequency itself would no doubt be okay, but an earlier start time more akin to weekdays would be beneficial.

    In my workplace many staff start between 8 and 8.30am. A Saturday service would require them to take a taxi in a number of cases because of the late start time.

    That's a fair point and I think you could have some extra early morning services on certain routes where the Saturday service is a bit thin.

    But by and large it would be sufficient.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭angel01


    lxflyer wrote: »
    That's a fair point and I think you could have some extra early morning services on certain routes where the Saturday service is a bit thin.

    But by and large it would be sufficient.

    Not everyone lives right beside work, It usually takes me the guts of 1.5 hrs -2 hours to get from home to work and back again. If it was a Saturday service on my route, It only starts around 7, leaving me no way of getting into work on time.

    I can't afford taxi's all week :rolleyes:

    Also, services on public holidays here is nothing short of shambolic with the majority of services starting after 9am :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    angel01 wrote: »
    Not everyone lives right beside work, It usually takes me the guts of 1.5 hrs -2 hours to get from home to work and back again. If it was a Saturday service on my route, It only starts around 7, leaving me no way of getting into work on time.

    I can't afford taxi's all week :rolleyes:

    Also, services on public holidays here is nothing short of shambolic with the majority of services starting after 9am :eek:

    Well as I said above perhaps then a Saturday service but with some extra early morning services added on routes where necessary.

    For the record I don't live right beside work either - I have to take two buses and a 15 minute walk!

    However, watching the buses along both corridors and the city centre over the past few days there were only a handful of people on every bus which suggests to me overkill.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭angel01


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Well as I said above perhaps then a Saturday service but with some extra early morning services added on routes where necessary.

    For the record I don't live right beside work either - I have to take two buses and a 15 minute walk!

    However, watching the buses along both corridors and the city centre over the past few days there were only a handful of people on every bus which suggests to me overkill.

    You say added on routes where necessary What routes would they be? If you are going to add them on some, they should be added on all.

    How are they going to let their customers know of this change? when they can't even let their customers know that there is a fare increase. I have been on a fair few buses all week and saw 1 sign advertising a bus fare hike.

    The services should be left as they are (imo)


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