Is BJJ a team sport

EnjoyChoke · 28-04-2012 1:09am #1

Like the title says, do you think that BJJ is an individual or team sport.

Stephen_King · 28-04-2012 2:10am

Both really. I'd think it would be hard to train to a high level without being part of a good team, but competition boils down to individual performance.

cambridge · 28-04-2012 2:23am

Obviously the archetypal team sports are rugby and soccer and other footballs. They involve people playing in different positions, with specific roles associated with those positions, and require cooperation and team work to achieve a set of goals.

Obviously sports like bjj, boxing, wrestling, mma are completely different.

However, what separates these sports from (imo) archetypal individual sports like golf, snooker, darts, weightlifting is the necessity of a team structure in training.

While all sports (and most endeavours in general) benefit hugely from support network, friendships, rivalry, coaching, being pushed, being enlightened, being encouraged etc. they are absolute requirements in bjj.

The team is composed of the coach (or coaches), senior students, junior students and people on your own level. Training involves intermixing of the three different groups, development is based on learning new things from better people and practising new things on worse people and fine-tuning things on people of your own level.

Without white belts biting at your feet, and purple belts mauling you in every position, it's hard for a blue belt to develop. For your guard passing to get better, you need to train with guys with good and varied guards. The better you get at passing, the better they get at guarding, hopefully a cat and mouse cycle develops of mutual progression.

I think in BJJ more so than boxing in my experience encourages that bit of co-operation and mutual growth. In bjj you say to yourself, i'm really bad at escaping this or that, you find someone in your team (or coach) and find out from them how it works. then you find a guy in your team who is really good at stopping people from escaping and you try and work on that.

Of course, at the end of the day you walk out onto the mat on your own, you may be wearing a logo or a badge from your team but all the team work is done BEFORE the match, not during.

SBG Ireland · 28-04-2012 3:09am

yes

Barry.Oglesby · 28-04-2012 10:07am

You'd have fierce trouble training alone.

Chris89 · 28-04-2012 11:21am

100%

Lets see what all the lads who dont like closing out divisions have to say for themselves.

Kieran81 · 28-04-2012 11:52am

Chris89 wrote: »

100%

Lets see what all the lads who dont like closing out divisions have to say for themselves.

i'm not a fan of closing divisions at all , but my answer is bjj is absolutely a team sport , still dont see why teammates cant go at it in a competition though

Chris89 · 28-04-2012 12:02pm

Kieran81 wrote: »

i'm not a fan of closing divisions at all , but my answer is bjj is absolutely a team sport , still dont see why teammates cant go at it in a competition though

cambridge · 28-04-2012 12:27pm

Chris89 wrote: »

100%

Lets see what all the lads who dont like closing out divisions have to say for themselves.

Is Bjj a team sport?
Yes

Why do bjj lads close out divisions?
Bromance

EnjoyChoke · 28-04-2012 12:27pm

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

You'd have fierce trouble training alone.

You can have training partners that aren't team-mates.

Clive · 28-04-2012 12:40pm

Yes and no, it really depends on how you define a team sport.

To me, BJJ is not a team sport, simply because you compete individually.

Doubles tennis is a team sport, singles tennis is not - even though the support structures and "team" behind the athletes could be virtually identical.

Is there a necessity to have good training partners and coaches? Yes of course. Is a strong team spirit and camaraderie engendered in BJJ, yes of course. You are literally putting your safety in someone's hands at every training session, and asking them to do the same. Complementary and clashing styles, different body types, different skill levels and physical abilities are all vital for someone who wants to compete. Very strong bonds of respect are formed.

In BJJ, "team" is used to encompass everything. It can mean the club you train at, several local clubs under the same instructor, or a worldwide association under the same umbrella, which muddies the waters.

To me "team sport" and "individual sport" are pretty straightforward terms, a layman should be able to look at an event and identify which is which. If people want to attach a deeper meaning then fair enough. I don't consider judo, wrestling, taekwondo, fencing etc. team sports either.

Kieran81 · 28-04-2012 12:41pm

Chris89 wrote: »

two guys from the same team reach a final , they've beaten all the rest ,their team is the only one left in the competition ,the team has now shown that they are the best in it , how does two lads having/not having a finals match change that , the only thing it does is leave a question mark over the one who gets a gold

arybvtcw0eolkf · 28-04-2012 1:30pm

Of course it can be a team sport, just like any other competitive combat sport/style can be a team sport.

Your club gather's together a team, you fight as a team against other teams. The team with the majority of wins takes the cup.

Regardless who win's or looses in the team its a team win or loss, there are no individual winners or losers - simple as.

darced · 28-04-2012 8:32pm

This post has been deleted.

EnjoyChoke · 28-04-2012 11:18pm

"Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu players are like chess pieces and in chess the pawns protect the King." - Royler Gracie.

pablohoney87 · 29-04-2012 12:46am

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

"Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu players are like chess pieces and in chess the pawns protect the King." - Royler Gracie.

Brilliant quote but in what context are you using it? My mind is racing bout the different scenarios

Barry.Oglesby · 29-04-2012 2:58am

The next time Guilherme is in trouble he should bring on Rafa as a sub.

RJJIreland · 29-04-2012 12:59pm

cambridge wrote: »

Why do bjj lads close out divisions?
Bromance

closing out divisions is about money and the rules.

you don't get paid to compete in the majority of bjj competitions so MOST teammates won't fight each other when there is nothing at stake other than the prize of a crappy medal. especially considering closing out brackets is NOT against the rules.

any circumstance in which the event is professional, i.e. the competitors get paid. team mates will always, and have always fought. because it is AGAINST the rules to close out and there is pay at stake.

cambridge · 29-04-2012 2:39pm

RJJIreland wrote: »

closing out divisions is about money and the rules.

you don't get paid to compete in the majority of bjj competitions so MOST teammates won't fight each other when there is nothing at stake other than the prize of a crappy medal. especially considering closing out brackets is NOT against the rules.

any circumstance in which the event is professional, i.e. the competitors get paid. team mates will always, and have always fought. because it is AGAINST the rules to close out and there is pay at stake.

I absolutely agree with you on everything you've said.

But imagine Bjj was in the olympics, no money for a gold medal, would you get people closing out divisions too, as in a world championships.

world championships being decided on a gentleman's agreement beforehand is fairly despicable in my opinion.

Barry.Oglesby · 29-04-2012 2:59pm

Just thinking that I probably wouldn't pick JT Torres on my first team but I'd probably keep him back as an impact sub late in the match.

I agree with Clive by the way. You train with a team and this is very important, but the sport itself is individual.

I think by the way, that something that's missing is a high level BJJ matchplay championship. Y'know, maybe one competitor at every weight, Alliance vs. Atos, GB vs Checkmat. Winning team advance and so on. That would be a team sport.

Chris89 · 29-04-2012 3:17pm

cambridge wrote: »

But imagine Bjj was in the olympics, no money for a gold medal, would you get people closing out divisions too, as in a world championships.

Its not though, and it probably never will be, so i guess we will never know.

RJJIreland · 30-04-2012 10:46am

cambridge wrote: »

But imagine Bjj was in the olympics, no money for a gold medal, would you get people closing out divisions too, as in a world championships.

Are you allowed close out divisions in the olympics?

If you are, then i'm sure it would happen. If you aren't, then it wouldn't.

slammer187 · 30-04-2012 3:45pm

Yea it's a team sport

cowzerp · 30-04-2012 3:59pm

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

Like the title says, do you think that BJJ is an individual or team sport.

Good question but in reality neither answer is wrong-It is both an individual sport and a team sport, just depends what way you look at it.

SDTimeout · 30-04-2012 5:33pm

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Just thinking that I probably wouldn't pick JT Torres on my first team but I'd probably keep him back as an impact sub late in the match.

I agree with Clive by the way. You train with a team and this is very important, but the sport itself is individual.

I think by the way, that something that's missing is a high level BJJ matchplay championship. Y'know, maybe one competitor at every weight, Alliance vs. Atos, GB vs Checkmat. Winning team advance and so on. That would be a team sport.

After the next Grapplepalooza Barry you should put all the money in a suitcase to America. That sounds like a really good idea.

Barry.Oglesby · 30-04-2012 5:37pm

SDTimeout wrote: »

After the next Grapplepalooza Barry you should put all the money in a suitcase to America. That sounds like a really good idea.

Suitcase? More like miniature envelope.

Spideog Rua · 01-05-2012 9:13am

Yes, it’s a team sport.

Let’s say you have 100 matches in competition a year. That’s fifteen hours of competition at most or about one percent of a black belt World champions training time.

Ninety nine percent of the time spent doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is spent drilling, sparring and working techniques. All of this time is spent with your training partners, team-mates and coaches. You are nothing without your team.

As to the comment above regarding an Olympic gold medal. Please don’t fool yourself into thinking that a gold medal isn’t worth anything. An Olympic gold medal can be worth hundreds of thousands of euro/dollar/pounds and billions of yen in endorsements, sponsorships and the rest of the opportunities it brings to your doorstep.

cowzerp · 01-05-2012 9:16am

Spideog Rua wrote: »

Yes, it’s a team sport.

Let’s say you have 100 matches in competition a year. That’s fifteen hours of competition at most or about one percent of a black belt World champions training time.

Ninety nine percent of the time spent doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is spent drilling, sparring and working techniques. All of this time is spent with your training partners, team-mates and coaches. You are nothing without your team.

Same could be said for most individual sports, Boxers need sparring partners, Coaches, Cuts men and they also spend far far more time training than competing as do most sports people.

Dermighty · 02-05-2012 1:33pm

I never really got why people don't compete in finals if they're on the same team. People tossing coins or doing rock, paper, scissors for a medal is stupid.

I can relate to comraderie and sportsmanship but seeing as rolling is such an intrinsic part of bjj classes then the opportunity to fight someone on your team shouldn't even come into question, just fight and whoever wins wins, it's not like most people that win buy a fur coat and pimp hat and wear the medal to bed :P

TKD SC · 02-05-2012 1:52pm

Dermighty wrote: »

I never really got why people don't compete in finals if they're on the same team. People tossing coins or doing rock, paper, scissors for a medal is stupid.

I can relate to comraderie and sportsmanship but seeing as rolling is such an intrinsic part of bjj classes then the opportunity to fight someone on your team shouldn't even come into question, just fight and whoever wins wins, it's not like most people that win buy a fur coat and pimp hat and wear the medal to bed :P

Yeh, I agree - I've fought team mates before in TKD competitions and never saw any issue with it. You spar / roll with them each week anyway, so why not compete if it happens in that way? No big deal.

Re the indiv sports - as Paul mentions, what about boxing? You could start throwing loads of "individual" sports into the mix - boxing, bjj, judo, tkd, singles tennis, golf, various track and field events etc etc. I would say they are all similar in that yes most of their time is spent with team mates etc and can't do much on their own etc, but I'd still call their sport individual as at the time of competing it is just them in the ring, on the court, on the track etc. No team members with them out there (though they may be close by shouting). It's an individual sport at time of playing - one against one, or one against many (golf, athletics).

The odd thing can turn an individual sport into a team event - like team sparring (yet each fight is still individual) and ryder cup events in golf. But for the most part, I'd say bjj is an individual sport. Yes, huge back-up from your club / team mates etc, but it's not soccer with 10 other guys against another team on the mats. Think you could argue from different angles all day, but bit of an odd question anyway! What difference does it make??

Simon

Marcus.phelan · 02-05-2012 3:31pm

really?? we now have a tkd guy telling us bjj is an individual sport...

Is BJJ a team sport

Is BJJ a team or individual sport? 9 votes

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