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Average cost of solictor's fees for buying house?

  • 13-03-2012 8:10pm
    #1
    Nwm2
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭


    I got a quote of around €1700, of which €1100 was the solicitor's fees, the rest was expenses (land registry).

    Is this typical? Higher than normal?

    EDIT: In Limerick, obviously.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    ZombieBride
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭ZombieBride


    Solicitors cost ridiculous amounts of money, the last one I used charged €200 an hour, and boy did those hours rake up on phone calls and typing letters (I think they were doing one fingered typing).

    Yeah, that seems about normal, though ask around and make sure you ask if vat is included as got an extra bill for that.


  • #3
    ABEasy
    Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭ABEasy


    Looks fair enough to me, they used to charge a percentage (1-2%) during the boom plus Vat and costs!!


  • #4
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,111 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    As with anything shop around, unless you have at least two prices to compare then who knows if it is competitive or not.

    Remember they are not exactly brimming with business these days especially around the sale of propertly so haggle with them.


  • #5
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    I've moved this thread to Legal Discussion as I don't think it has anything to do with Limerick


  • #6
    Nwm2
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Nwm2


    Clareman wrote: »
    I've moved this thread to Legal Discussion as I don't think it has anything to do with Limerick

    I put it in Limerick because I wanted to get the local prices.


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  • #7
    enry
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭enry


    solicitors do a lot of work when it comes to buy or selling a home (checking title, reviewing and advising on loan offers, doing up contracts and objections and requisitions on title etc.) on top of the normal costs involved in running an office a solicitor also has to pay huge insurance premiums, in my opinion €1,100 is not that bad a price.

    What do auctioneers charge, what do they do for their money and what special training do they have and yet nobody has a problem paying them.


  • #8
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    that is a reasonable quote,

    ZombieBeast - to run a practice with all the overheads requires the solicitor to charge about €200 an hour at least to break even


  • #9
    Avatargh
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Avatargh


    ZombieBride wrote: »
    Solicitors cost ridiculous amounts of money, the last one I used charged €200 an hour, and boy did those hours rake up on phone calls and typing letters (I think they were doing one fingered typing).

    Yeah, that seems about normal, though ask around and make sure you ask if vat is included as got an extra bill for that.

    If that is ridiculous, what would not be ridiculous?


  • #10
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    nuac wrote: »
    that is a reasonable quote,

    ZombieBeast - to run a practice with all the overheads requires the solicitor to charge about €200 an hour at least to break even

    lol. just stumbled across this thread and had to laugh out loud for 3 whole minutes. You would not happen to be a solicitor by any chance lol?

    €200 an hour is €8000 a week for a standard 40 hour week. Thats four hundred grand a year. You must have some overheads, seeing as you do not have to pay suppliers or pay for raw materials. Yes, I know you may have rent, you have electricity, you may have a part time secretary....but still? If you need 4 hundred grand a year to break even, I wonder how other people in service businesses survive? The celtic tiger is over, I thought everyone realised that.


  • #11
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    true wrote: »
    lol. just stumbled across this thread and had to laugh out loud for 3 whole minutes. You would not happen to be a solicitor by any chance lol?

    €200 an hour is €8000 a week for a standard 40 hour week. Thats four hundred grand a year. You must have some overheads, seeing as you do not have to pay suppliers or pay for raw materials. Yes, I know you may have rent, you have electricity, you may have a part time secretary....but still? If you need 4 hundred grand a year to break even, I wonder how other people in service businesses survive? The celtic tiger is over, I thought everyone realised that.

    It doesn't average like an employees normal 40 hour working week, not every hour is billable and a lot depends on the transaction and what will 'tax' ie what the Taxing Master will allow.

    €200 ph is a rule of thumb for a senior solicitor (Partner or Principal).


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  • #12
    johnfás
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭johnfás


    If you're prepared to spend €1000 having your house painted or on a couple of kitchen appliances you should be prepared to do so to ensure you in fact own the house you are kitting out.


  • #13
    Gleesonbelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Gleesonbelle


    Our solicitor fees were €1500 in 2008 when we bought!


  • #14
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    true wrote: »
    lol. just stumbled across this thread and had to laugh out loud for 3 whole minutes. You would not happen to be a solicitor by any chance lol?

    €200 an hour is €8000 a week for a standard 40 hour week. Thats four hundred grand a year. You must have some overheads, seeing as you do not have to pay suppliers or pay for raw materials. Yes, I know you may have rent, you have electricity, you may have a part time secretary....but still? If you need 4 hundred grand a year to break even, I wonder how other people in service businesses survive? The celtic tiger is over, I thought everyone realised that.

    Professional Indemnity Insurance is but one and a biggy at that


  • #15
    heate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭✭heate


    true wrote: »
    nuac wrote: »
    that is a reasonable quote,

    ZombieBeast - to run a practice with all the overheads requires the solicitor to charge about €200 an hour at least to break even

    lol. just stumbled across this thread and had to laugh out loud for 3 whole minutes. You would not happen to be a solicitor by any chance lol?

    €200 an hour is €8000 a week for a standard 40 hour week. Thats four hundred grand a year. You must have some overheads, seeing as you do not have to pay suppliers or pay for raw materials. Yes, I know you may have rent, you have electricity, you may have a part time secretary....but still? If you need 4 hundred grand a year to break even, I wonder how other people in service businesses survive? The celtic tiger is over, I thought everyone realised that.

    Funny stuff alright; that is your understanding of how much your average solicitor makes.
    OP I think €1,100 is entirely reasonable and would recommend not fretting over the cost of the legal fees.
    I would be more concerned with being comfortable and satisfied with the work performed by the solicitor not a €100 here and there


  • #16
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    True
    It is not as simple as that.

    Billable hours are much less than time spent working

    Overheads and the hassle of doing business have grown substantially

    Substantial backup needed in offices - a part-time legal secretary no matter how able would not be able to cope.

    Busy now; will come back to this later when time permits


  • #17
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    Nwm2 wrote: »
    I got a quote of around €1700, of which €1100 was the solicitor's fees, the rest was expenses (land registry).

    Is this typical? Higher than normal?

    EDIT: In Limerick, obviously.

    I do work for an office in Limerick, and that sounds about right.
    bazz26 wrote: »
    As with anything shop around, unless you have at least two prices to compare then who knows if it is competitive or not.

    Remember they are not exactly brimming with business these days especially around the sale of propertly so haggle with them.

    Strange as this sounds, I think the collapse of the property business has actually pushed up fees slightly for the conveyancing work. Whereas smaller offices here could have taken on work for €850 - €950 a few years back because the volume was there, nowadays its not really worth their while taking work on unless they get a reasonable fee for it.


  • #18
    johnfás
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭johnfás


    Flincher wrote: »
    I do work for an office in Limerick, and that sounds about right.



    Strange as this sounds, I think the collapse of the property business has actually pushed up fees slightly for the conveyancing work. Whereas smaller offices here could have taken on work for €850 - €950 a few years back because the volume was there, nowadays its not really worth their while taking work on unless they get a reasonable fee for it.

    Depends on the circumstances. You need cash flow as well.


  • #19
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    ZombieBride wrote: »
    Solicitors cost ridiculous amounts of money, the last one I used charged €200 an hour, and boy did those hours rake up on phone calls and typing letters (I think they were doing one fingered typing).
    +1. I once asked a professional for an itemised bill of the hours charged, and he even included full price for when he called to the clients house and spent time talking socially over the coffee and buns the client provided. Half hour meetings were rounded up to an hour etc. In the end at least he admitted he was padding his fees and did not work all the hours he initially claimed. He still tried to charge 200 per hour though - I suppose he has multiple properties to maintain and that is expensive so who can blame him.
    nuac wrote: »
    Billable hours are much less than time spent working

    Overheads and the hassle of doing business have grown substantially
    If thats the case they have for other businesses too, and yet others do not charge 200 per hour / 8000 per week.
    The celtic tiger is dead, the days of being able to charge 200+ per hour are symbolic of the greed which killed the celtic tiger.


  • #20
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    €200 ph for professional services is the rate, accept it or not but it's fact.

    I have underlined professional because I am specifically referring to the professions in Ireland. Medical/veterinary, accountancy/tax, engineering can all commend that money.

    I have already said it's not €200 x 40 like you suggest. See previous post.


  • #21
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    "€200 an hour is €8000 a week for a standard 40 hour week. Thats four hundred grand a year. You must have some overheads, seeing as you do not have to pay suppliers or pay for raw materials. Yes, I know you may have rent, you have electricity, you may have a part time secretary....but still? If you need 4 hundred grand a year to break even, I wonder how other people in service businesses survive? The celtic tiger is over, I thought everyone realised that"
    McCrack wrote: »
    €200 ph for professional services is the rate, accept it or not but it's fact.

    I have underlined professional because I am specifically referring to the professions in Ireland. Medical/veterinary, accountancy/tax, engineering can all commend that money.

    "can all command that sort of money"? €400,000 a year gross? thats double what the President of the USA earns. Go to other EC countries and you will not find the average professional there commanding" 200 an hour. They would laugh at you. The celtic tiger is long over. The country will never recover if every Irish professional person charges 200 an hour / 8000 a week.
    A professional I know charges 60 an hour and is glad to get it.


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  • #22
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    ffs

    third time, a senior solicitor doesn't bill for 40 hours, they bill per transaction completed.

    Hourly rate is €200 give or take €50 each side, some will charge €150, others €250.

    Subject to taxation (independent legal costs adjudicator)


  • #23
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    and yes €400k fees income pa is not unusual for a small and busy practice


  • #24
    johnfás
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭johnfás


    McCrack wrote: »
    ffs

    third time, a senior solicitor doesn't bill for 40 hours, they bill per transaction completed.

    Hourly rate is €200 give or take €50 each side, some will charge €150, others €250.

    Subject to taxation (independent legal costs adjudicator)

    Subject further to rarely recovering 100% of time billed; to the fact not all time on transaction is billed; to overheads; and to the fact in most smaller firms you will also have a trainee and/or legal secretary who will have worked on the file and not billed anytime directly to client.


  • #25
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Yes johnfas I alluded to that in previous posts, I'm just trying to keep simple for the benefit for one or two other posters that can't seem to grasp basics.


  • #26
    Hogzy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    true wrote: »
    lol. just stumbled across this thread and had to laugh out loud for 3 whole minutes. You would not happen to be a solicitor by any chance lol?

    €200 an hour is €8000 a week for a standard 40 hour week. Thats four hundred grand a year. You must have some overheads, seeing as you do not have to pay suppliers or pay for raw materials. Yes, I know you may have rent, you have electricity, you may have a part time secretary....but still? If you need 4 hundred grand a year to break even, I wonder how other people in service businesses survive? The celtic tiger is over, I thought everyone realised that.

    Any half decent wedding Photographer can cost anywhere between 1000 and 3000 for the day. This is a guy who just takes photos. Going by your logic all photographers must make a minimum of 365,000 per year. :rolleyes:

    Obviously a solicitor will not have a client to charge €200 every hour of the day. Professional Indemnity Insurance is a HUGE overheard. As is the cost of running a firm of solicitors. Its not an unreasonable amount considering a solicitors qualifications. GP's earn ALOT more money per hour than your average solicitor and you would use your GP alot more than you would your solicitor.


  • #27
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    true wrote: »
    A professional I know charges 60 an hour and is glad to get it.

    I'd like to see those overheads :rolleyes:


  • #28
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    nuac wrote: »
    to run a practice with all the overheads requires the solicitor to charge about €200 an hour at least to break even
    McCrack wrote: »
    and yes €400k fees income pa is not unusual for a small and busy practice

    Nobody ever suggested that was not the case. Especially if the going rate for a solicitor is 200 an hour as nuac said. 200 an hour could produce 400k a year gross income quite easily if a person worked hard and was busy.

    You do realise the going rate for professionals is considerably less in other countries?
    Even during the celtic tiger building boom / bubble, one of the biggest bubbles in history, many professionals in the construction industry like architects and quantity surveyors did not command 200 euro an hour. Some did, but many did not. Now we are in recessionary times do they still all think they can command 200 an hour?
    ZombieBride wrote: »
    Solicitors cost ridiculous amounts of money, the last one I used charged €200 an hour, and boy did those hours rake up on phone calls and typing letters (I think they were doing one fingered typing).
    Best to shop around, as with everything nowadays. Ask for a quotation, it will vary depending on how hungry they are for the business. Some have reduced their prices from the celtic tiger mad days, some have not. You could save the price of a good holiday quite easily.


  • #29
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Again you are showing an inability to grasp what has already been said numerous times.

    A senior solicitor cannot bill €200 x 40 x 52 and generate €400k pa like you suggest some might if they are busy enough unless of course they are Superman.

    What is realistic is a small practice doing consistent work of the right kind with one Principal and one or two assistant solicitors cumulatively generating €400k fees income pa.

    Re other countries and what professional service providers can charge; I have no idea nor do I want to know.
    Re Construction Industry; that's not the topic of discussion.


  • #30
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    McCrack wrote: »
    Again you are showing an inability to grasp what has already been said numerous times.
    It is you and one or two others who is failing to grasp what has been said already.
    McCrack wrote: »
    A senior solicitor cannot bill €200 x 40 x 52 and generate €400k pa like you suggest some might if they are busy enough unless of course they are Superman .
    Who mentioned " senior solicitor" ? Other posters were talking about what a solicitor charges for conveyancying a house - not exactly rocket science requiring the most senior solicitors all the time. And 200 x 40 x 52 would be 416k, not 400k.
    Many supermen are working longer hours than 40 hours a week and earning less than 400k a year.
    McCrack wrote: »
    What is realistic is a small practice doing consistent work of the right kind with one Principal and one or two assistant solicitors cumulatively generating €400k fees income pa.
    .
    Nobody denied that, and that is way off the point.

    McCrack wrote: »
    Re other countries and what professional service providers can charge; I have no idea nor do I want to know.
    Even though you advocate the ordinary solicitor in this little bankrupt state charging double what the President of the USA earns? Do you really think all professionals in other countries charge 400k a year? You do realise the celtic tiger is over?


    McCrack wrote: »
    Re Construction Industry; that's not the topic of discussion.
    Then why did you write along the lines " €200 ph for professional services is the rate, accept it or not but it's fact. I have underlined professional because I am specifically referring to the professions in Ireland. Medical/veterinary, accountancy/tax, engineering can all commend that money. " If you think every solicitor should charge 200 an hour, perhaps you think every other professional in the country should charge 200 an hour also? Or is greed just reserved for members of one profession only? And if all professionals should be on 200 an hour, what rate do you think technicians and other people should charge for their services?

    Why cannot you understand that the celtic tiger is long over, and the country will never recover if every Irish professional person charges 200 an hour / 8000 a week?
    bazz26 wrote: »
    As with anything shop around, unless you have at least two prices to compare then who knows if it is competitive or not.
    Well said.


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  • #31
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    true wrote: »
    Even though you advocate the ordinary solicitor in this little bankrupt state charging double what the President of the USA earns? Do you really think all professionals in other countries charge 400k a year? You do realise the celtic tiger is over?




    .

    The ordinary solicitor might gross double what the salary of the president of the U.S. is, however that is a ridiculous comparison.
    Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. A practise with a turnover of 400k will have at least three full time employees to be paid, office rent, indemnity insurance cpd courses, rent, rates, professional body subscriptions, office equipment to maintain, audit fees, bookkeeping fees and numerous other expenses.
    This is analogous with people saying restaurants are ripping people off because you can make a plate of chips for 50 cent at home and a restaurant is charging €5 for the same thing. It is absolute nonsense.


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