Alternate to the Saorview Box

El Inho · 18-02-2012 7:38pm #1

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-DVB-T-Digital-Terrestrial-Receiver-H-264-MPEG4-SD-Scart-TV-Box-Tuner-Dolby-/160728889683?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item256c303953#ht_4108wt_1272

so simply...my parents want to change over a few tvs to match saorview..

obviously this has a dodgy look...but seems legit to me?

these things work???

Avns1s · 18-02-2012 7:46pm

There are several other threads on these boxes. Use the search function. Some will allow you to tune in the saorview channels but do not have MHEG5.

This particular one is NOT suitable for saorview.

Sam Russell · 19-02-2012 12:57am

This is not HD so will not work with RTE 2HD so do not buy it. There are some others that work, but not this one. Go for a Saorview approved.

winston_1 · 19-02-2012 1:08am

Why oh why do so many people in Ireland want to buy non approved DVB-T products?
This one will not only do MHEG 5 but is not compatible with HD which is required for RTE 2.
Go and buy a Saroview approved approved box. It may cost a little bit more but you can be assured it will work properly.

Avns1s · 19-02-2012 11:24am

winston_1 wrote: »

Why oh why do so many people in Ireland want to buy non approved DVB-T products?
This one will not only do MHEG 5 but is not compatible with HD which is required for RTE 2.
Go and buy a Saroview approved approved box. It may cost a little bit more but you can be assured it will work properly.

Simply because most irish houses have several TVs connected to their aerial at the moment. The cost of the saorview approved boxes is a serious impediment to getting a box for each tv and many people will take the option of having one saorview approved tv or box, and just get the channels on the other tvs, hence the cheap option is attractive.

watty · 19-02-2012 12:04pm

It can be a waste of money. It's not that cheaper considering the loss of functionality and the risk of losing sound or video on the basic channels.

MHEG5 will be used with the Radio channels and it's already used for RTEjr / RTE1+1 information/switching. It could be used to access other video channels.

It's stupid penny pinching to get
An unapproved box
A box without MHEG5
A box that doesn't have a UK/Irish plug on the PSU
A box that might have fake CE mark (or none)
A box where you have not read the Nordig spec and confirmed the box meets it.

Shop around. Look for special offers:
http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/saorview-approved-product-listings/

Even a not quite compatible UK "Freeview HD" (not basic Freeview) box is better than any of this so called "cheap" stuff. Don't compare price of Saorview with "Freeview" as basic "Freeview" is obsolete and doesn't do HD. The comparable product "price & features" is "Freeview HD". I think you find unless you can pick up UK signal from N.I., IOM or Wales it's better to get a Saorview box.

There should be Approved/Certified PVRs soon (a box with a single tuner and USB socket for recording is NOT a PVR!),

There is also no need to outfit every TV today. The July to September timeframe is better.

kelsca · 19-02-2012 12:08pm

Avns1s wrote: »

Simply because most irish houses have several TVs connected to their aerial at the moment. The cost of the saorview approved boxes is a serious impediment to getting a box for each tv and many people will take the option of having one saorview approved tv or box, and just get the channels on the other tvs, hence the cheap option is attractive.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tv/2638664

watty · 19-02-2012 4:04pm

And that is a DISHONEST advert. He is not selling a Saorview box.
I've reported him to Donedeal and eBay for Trademark infringement and dishonest advert.

Sam Russell · 20-02-2012 1:00am

watty wrote: »

And that is a DISHONEST advert. He is not selling a Saorview box.
I've reported him to Donedeal and eBay for Trademark infringement and dishonest advert.

I think that is a bit harsh. He says it receives Saorview broadcasts, but he does not claim it is an approved product. He does say it comes with a 3 pin plug, which was one of you requirements. It does receive HD which was another. I would guess it is all CE certified, unless it is completely hookie. It almost certainly has not got MHEG 5, but he does not claim that it does.

There are many people who are prepared to pay €25 to get the broadcasts over €80 for an approved product that will get the secret improvements that the broadcasters have in line for us. A software upgrade could add MHEG5, but I doubt that it will ever be offered. The product offered has other advantages in that it hides behind the TV, is low power, etc.

Most approved products are made by Vestel in Turkey, not a well known major manufacturer. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

If people are aware of what they are buying, then it is up to them. I do not beleive the wording of the advert is misleading. It is being sold in a DIY environment, not a major high street shop.

NewHillel · 20-02-2012 1:13am

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that is a bit harsh. He says it receives Saorview broadcasts, but he does not claim it is an approved product. He does say it comes with a 3 pin plug, which was one of you requirements. It does receive HD which was another. I would guess it is all CE certified, unless it is completely hookie. It almost certainly has not got MHEG 5, but he does not claim that it does.

Yeah, but he does claim it has a 7 day EPG. That is misleading.
I like the unit, though. I've just ordered one.

Sam Russell wrote: »

If people are aware of what they are buying, then it is up to them.

Agree 100%.

NewHillel · 20-02-2012 1:16am

watty wrote: »

And that is a DISHONEST advert. He is not selling a Saorview box.
I've reported him to Donedeal and eBay for Trademark infringement and dishonest advert.

Think MaryLou, think moral high ground, windy spot...

But, I'm with you on this one. :eek:
(It's that 7 day EPG that really gets him.)

Crono · 20-02-2012 7:33am

kelsca wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tv/2638664

In the demonstration video, the channel numbers are in the 800 range. Is this typical for such a box?

Sam Russell · 20-02-2012 9:50am

Crono wrote: »

In the demonstration video, the channel numbers are in the 800 range. Is this typical for such a box?

No, it just means he has not set the country to Ireland. Ireland may not be an option with the version of software that he has but it would be a simple upgrade for him to arrange.

The 7-day epg is in fact part of the Saorview signal and there is no reason for it not to be decoded. This is a DVB-T unit, not a satellite unit.

Macy0161 · 20-02-2012 10:31am

NewHillel wrote: »

Yeah, but he does claim it has a 7 day EPG. That is misleading.

My non approved receiver has 7 day epg, albeit not the MHEG5 one.

In fairness to Watty, he does call it a "saorview box" a couple of times in the advert.

Gotta say I'm tempted myself at that price.

bodonnell · 20-02-2012 11:07am

Just tried that link, says ad has been removed

Discodog · 20-02-2012 11:13am

It's still on ebay. The only problem that I could see was they were €25 on donedeal & €39 on ebay :rolleyes:

This type of box will suit a lot of people who don't watch much on RTE/TV3.

If Saorview can't be bothered to offer well priced & desirable alternatives then people will go for cheaper options.

We all want a Freesat PVR that will also pick up Saorview.

watty · 20-02-2012 12:38pm

Saorview doesn't offer ANY boxes. Nor can Saorview control the Irish Distribution and Retail systems which tend to have higher prices for everything. Not just Saorview boxes. These ebay boxes are not equivalent to UK "Freeview HD" or "Saorview" certified boxes.

It's fine people selling them and people buying them if there is nothing dishonest or misleading about the advert, the product is actually safe and actually works and people are making an informed decision. This is generally NOT the case. The public are being conned by these resellers.

If it's not on this list think carefully about buying it and even more about recommending it:
http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/saorview-approved-product-listings/

If you can get UK Terrestrial signals, then you would be justified in getting a "Freeview HD" box or a "Freeview+ HD" HDR/PVR. You wouldn't buy an uncertified partially incompatible for that. "Freeview" is obsolete. Wales and IOM already use DVB-T2 + HD and N.I. will after 24th October 2012.

Freesat is obsolete. "Freesat HD" and "Freeview HD" are the current products. A real PVR with Freesat and Saorview needs four tuners and two certifications. That will not be cheap even if it really ever is produced.

bodonnell wrote: »

Just tried that link, says ad has been removed

Because Donedeal agreed that the advert was not Honest, misled the public and misused RTE NL's trademark.

Saorview doesn't offer ANY boxes. Nor does Saorview test/certify boxes. Saorview is using an OPEN pair of Standards used by a number of countries (Nordig 2.2 and MHEG5 UK Profile) unlike UK's closed Dbook. It's entirely up to the Manufacturers to meet the published standards (MHEG5 is even royalty free) and pay once off cost for the independent test and certification.

Without a Certification scheme the ordinary public can NEVER know how compatible a box or TV is or if there are problems "down the road". It's thus irresponsible unless you are Test House and have tested a box against the spec in a Lab to recommend an uncertified product. Tuning in a signal and getting a picture and sound is NO evidence of compatibility. The Digital TV environment is much more complex than the Analogue days (where even a PAL B/G only set would actually not give sound in Ireland and a UK PAL I set might have only given TV3 and TG4 but no RTE1 and RTE2).

Discodog · 20-02-2012 1:03pm

Any approved Saorview box is going to be expensive for early adopters. The prices will drop once the initial demand has been supplied & the order rate reduces. The approaching deadline is a boon to sellers.

We know from these forums that a lot of people never watch RTE & will only want it for the occasional sports event. A easy alternative could be a €10 dongle & link your laptop to the TV.

Ireland has a long history of being wary of official suppliers & restricted, expensive choices so it's hardly any wonder if the likes of the donedeal/ebay man shift a lot of stock.

Tuning in & getting a picture & sound may not be evidence of compatibility but it is all that many people want especially those who are short of money.

watty · 20-02-2012 2:18pm

If you are short of money it makes no sense to buy stuff that might be a total waste.

Or perhaps to worry about TV at all.

Discodog · 20-02-2012 2:24pm

watty wrote: »

If you are short of money it makes no sense to buy stuff that might be a total waste.

Or perhaps to worry about TV at all.

I am sure that you wouldn't want to deny the poor a bit of TV

Macy0161 · 20-02-2012 3:18pm

Discodog wrote: »

It's still on ebay. The only problem that I could see was they were €25 on donedeal & €39 on ebay :rolleyes:

At €39, with or without postage on top I'd still pay extra for an approved receiver. At €25 it was a different matter.

Discodog · 20-02-2012 3:26pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

At €39, with or without postage on top I'd still pay extra for an approved receiver. At €25 it was a different matter.

I agree. The annoying thing is there are loads of really cheap dongles for your laptop but they all run on windows & I have an older mac ! I know someone who bought one on ebay for €12 inc postage from China & it's works really well. He can even record.

lawhec · 20-02-2012 8:51pm

Maybe I'm just a stupid northerner but I am perplexed at this seeming demand for people wanting to get non-Saorview approved DVB-T receivers for the sake of a few Euro. Freeview will be ten years old in the UK this coming autumn and ever since it was launched it was made pretty clear "make sure your receiver is approved for Freeview or the old OnDigital service, or we won't be responsible" and even over the years some of these approved receivers have effectively became doorstops or severely hindered because due to evolving technology which older models cannot cope, or manufacturers not getting OTA updates out for various reasons - some models have had excellent support in this regards, others maybe one bug fix update or even none at all. From 7 Day EPG to split NIT tables, various software bugs in certain models, the move to 8K in post DSO areas, HD broadcasts and most recently the implementation of MHEG-IC which some earlier Freeview HD receivers will never cope with due to hardware limitations. I have an old Panasonic TUCT-20 bought in 2003 that is ancient now and can't show the 7 day EPG (Panny's initial response - get the TUCT-30!) but can happily show now & next, MHEG data, and after an OTA software update solving the problem with the split-NIT problem putting channels in the wrong numbers, show the channels in the correct places. And importantly for some people, it has an RF modulator. It won't show Saorview channels, nor do for Freeview HD but for SD Freeview MPEG2 broadcasts as long as they are broadcast receivers like these can show them.

"Vanilla" DVB-T receivers can of course pick up the likes of Freeview and (if MPEG4 HD compliant) Saorview, but if RTÉNL or the likes of the BBC or Arqiva make changes that cause problems with these receivers but not officially approved ones, then its simply buyer beware! Don't be whining to RTÉ or Joe Duffy otherwise.

Sam Russell · 20-02-2012 10:54pm

In the fullness of time, all TVs will be iDTVs that can receive the full spectrum of standards deployed in Europe, just select your country. In the meantime, those with old TVs just want a temporary solution to solve the immediate problem of the 24th October next. The STB is a short term solution in anybody's language and a cludge. Why spend the guts of the price of a small TV on a STB that is at best awkward to use? It is not even as if the STB market is flooded any major manufacturers like Sony or Panasonic. No, most are made by a low-end Turkish producer - Vestel.

Within two years, all major suppliers will have full products available in iDtvs that meet most peoples requirement. [Even Panasonic now have certified product] Buying a STB of any kind is a waste of money, and for any CRT TV I would think is a bad investment. At best, it is postponing the inevitable purchase of a fully specced iDTV, maybe only justified by wisely waiting for maturity in the market.

If one agrees with this, why spend more than €25 to get one rather than €80 for a certified one? [Assuming €25 is the price]. I do not think MHEG5 can be worth the difference, but at €50 for the certified product the argument changes. It all depends on the price.

Well, that is my opinion for what it is worth.

PogMoThoin · 20-02-2012 11:05pm

The truth is, its Currys, Argos and Tesco's fault there is a market for set top boxes, by selling incompatible TV's for the last few years even though they knew all about ASO. Most people with CRT's are buying new iDTV's, the people who got conned aren't and can't justify another huge expense. Lets face it, to most people a TV is a luxury item, one that's supposed to last them for years. I meet these people everyday, they're looking for the cheapest get by, until they can justify that iDTV in a year or 2

watty · 20-02-2012 11:37pm

Don't assume:
1)That MHEG5 is the only lack.
2)That MHEG5 isn't important.

I blame successive Governments. The French brought in legislation to stop "product dumping". The Government, ASAI, Regulators, Retailers and wholesalers shamefully cheated the Irish public since summer 2008, even just with silence.

We knew was was coming so we didn't even buy a Widescreen CRT (total rip off). We bought a very large 4:3 CRT and then just over a year ago my son got a Real HD LG (42") able to do Saorview. We may buy another set December 2012 or January 2013.

People ripped of with WS CRT. You really need HD for decent WS.
People ripped of with so called "rubbish" 1366 x 768 WXGA PC LCD panels slapped into cheap TV and sold expensively as "HD Ready". No use ever for other than SD.
SD LCDs that where useless quality for anything other than Game Consoles (An SD LCD can't cope with Analogue SD due to Aliasing issues, makes it pixelated compared to CRT).

Sam Russell · 21-02-2012 12:16am

watty wrote: »

Don't assume:
1)That MHEG5 is the only lack.
2)That MHEG5 isn't important.

There is no information on what is planned for MHEG5. It is vapourware.

We have been promised series link sometime never. Another 'jam tomorrow' product.

The only reason for MHEG5 as far as I can see is for a new revenue stream for the broadcasters, like their websites which direct you to more advertising. MHEG5 is another advertisers opportunity waiting to happen. A further extension of the phone in competitions - 'Pancake day is known as A. Shrove Tuesday, B. Shrove Wednesday, C. Shrove Thursday? Phone this expensive premium rate number to win a supply of pancakes'

I think I can live without that kind of opportunity.

watty · 21-02-2012 8:58am

It's used already to give a screen when you use RTEjr/RTE1+1 out of hours

The whole point of MHEG5 is that it allows the Broadcaster to do what wasn't planned for. You are confusing MHEG5 engine and any particular MHEG5 app. It's extremely misleading to other readers to call MHEG5 "vapourware".

Anyway you have absolutely NO WAY to know what else will not work on a non-certified box.

Series link will eventually be broadcast. At the minute there are no certified PVRs.

Sam Russell · 21-02-2012 9:37am

watty wrote: »

It's used already to give a screen when you use RTEjr/RTE1+1 out of hours

The whole point of MHEG5 is that it allows the Broadcaster to do what wasn't planned for. You are confusing MHEG5 engine and any particular MHEG5 app. It's extremely misleading to other readers to call MHEG5 "vapourware".

Anyway you have absolutely NO WAY to know what else will not work on a non-certified box.

Series link will eventually be broadcast. At the minute there are no certified PVRs.

Soarview was launched last May after many years of 'TESTING' and 'TRIALS' and 'CONSULTATIONS' and other such games. It is still not fully implemented, and is being ignored by all the broadcasters. It has been a long journey, filled with failure and disappointment with little to look back on as success. It is too much to expect a little information on any of the proposed extensions to the service. Even SeriesLink is too much to ask. The spec is there, and the fact no certified product is available has nothing to do with anything.

If a non-certified product receives the programme and can operate an EPG, that is OK for the people who risk their life savings to buy one. I think people should buy certified product, but I also beleive that the price difference should be much less. The certification process was too dear.

Macy0161 · 21-02-2012 11:41am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Buying a STB of any kind is a waste of money, and for any CRT TV I would think is a bad investment. At best, it is postponing the inevitable purchase of a fully specced iDTV, maybe only justified by wisely waiting for maturity in the market.

Well that's exactly the boat we're in - we've had a combo a few years now to delay the inevitable upgrade of the CRT TV. The spec we'll get for the money (and/or the quality of the manufacturer) is going up with each passing month - can't see us justifying the outlay whilst the TV works and the combo isn't costing us features, given the continued uncertain economic circumstances. If the TV breaks down, and the combo still works, it'll move to another TV. tbh, if we didn't have one now, I'd still be tempted for the likes of the ferguson.

Similarly if those uncertified receivers were €25 and got the old 19" TV's a few more months life and over the ASO potential rip off hump, they'd do the job. In fact, for all the giving out about them, we've still a sagem picnic going strong on a tele that's used pretty much exclusively by the children - still allows them to watch RTEjr, and once it does that there's little need to change.

Once consumers are going in with their eyes open, and know they are potentially only short term solutions, I don't see the issue with stb's, either certified or uncertified.

watty · 21-02-2012 2:20pm

Advertisers are trying as ever to close the public's eyes.

Almost anything Retail in a Shop in Ireland is overpriced.
Batteries are x4

The Distribution structure is wrong and also too many Euro countries appoint UK companies as sole distributors and so we get hit by extra currency hedging and often an extra layer of distribution.

Never Mind Irish vs German Aldi / Lidl prices. Look at Tesco prices for the same products imported to Poland and Ireland.

Look at UK Argos vs Irish Argos.

Irish Book prices.

Cars!

Wrangler jeans

Alternate to the Saorview Box

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