How British are You?

Old Tom · 14-04-2012 3:48pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Fat tattooed English people are a far cry from posh in accent. Jeremy Kyle fodder alright.

Hence the " "

later12 · 14-04-2012 3:56pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Most Irish people are British to a degree, but they just don't recognise it.

Say no more, i'll get my coat )

You don't need your coat, just get yourself a copy of Census 2011 demographics.

Unless you're talking about genetic heritage, which I generally find mind bogglingly irrelevant, but it seems to be something that nationalists (and I include unionists in that) take great comfort in.

Can someone's self-identity really be so poor that he has to compensate for it by clinging to an emotional attachment to the long forgotten dead, instead of building his or her identity on the contemporary society he lives in?

Evidently so.

Grayson · 14-04-2012 3:58pm

mongoman wrote: »

Are you for real?

That is kinda like saying most heterosexuals are actually gay, but they just don't realise it.

I knew a gay guy who believe that.

ejmaztec · 14-04-2012 4:00pm

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I was born in Britain & have a British passport though i never attended boarding school to be buggered by the top boy or participate in mutual masturbation in the dorm all the while longing for my nanny therefore i dont feel very British at all!

Im looking to trade in my Brit paspport for an Irish one when it runs out later in the year.. it`ll be much safer should one of those al jihadi chaps hijack one of my frequent flights over to majorca.. tally ho!

It might less safe than a British one, especially if the jihadists think you could be Mossad. You might have to drop your pants to prove you're not circumcised.:p

Wibbs · 14-04-2012 4:09pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Most Irish people are British to a degree, but they just don't recognise it.

Genetically most English people are Irish to a degree so...

Given how related we all are on these two damp little islands on the edge of the world and how much back and forth has been going on since the ice ages pissed off it's amazing how fecking narky we can be with each other. TBH I blame the Normans. Before that we weren't particularly like that at all. Even when the Romans showed up in England. Hell they found an Irish guy buried in a Roman cemetery in the south of England. I doubt he was the only one. The Welsh were coming here and we were going there. The Scots? Their countries very name originally meant the small land of the Irish. St Paddy and northern Briton straddled both and the Roman. Then on the back of him and others we went and brought religion and re introduced books to Scotland and most of northern England. At least a century before Augustine of Canterbury was a gleam in his mammies eye.

Then came the Normans. They had such contempt for the local Britons they didn't bother using or learning the language for 4 centuries. Yep the Scandinavian French, thems the bastids. And religion. The religion that helped educate and modernise post Roman Britain (and Ireland) came back and bit us all in the arse down the line when the Roman version took off. Then when the Protestant slant on the Roman version took off we pretty much all got boned on both islands with that daft bit of Swiftian farce. Lots of English people ended up as kindling on religious pyres, never mind the utter shíte that kicked off here on the back of it. Throughout all this the common man and woman, whether Irish, English, Welsh or Scot always got it in the neck. Shít the English had their own famines among the poor in the 18th century.

Wibbs · 14-04-2012 4:10pm

later12 wrote: »

it seems to be something that nationalists (and I include unionists in that) take great comfort in.

And the joke is they shouldn't.

Son Of A Vidic · 14-04-2012 4:18pm

OP - we are not British, but since we are now citizens of greater Germania. We could perhaps consider ourselves to be German?

WoollyRedHat · 14-04-2012 4:20pm

Awfully British darling, awfully British. Although I don't care much for their tea, Earls Grey ... it's trite darling.

Fratton Fred · 14-04-2012 4:21pm

RichieC wrote: »

I don't like how they seem to get a walk in group to every football tournament and still think they're going to win it.

That pesky British football team.......

Fart · 14-04-2012 4:23pm

Mmmmmm ale.

ejmaztec · 14-04-2012 4:31pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

OP - we are not British, but since we are now citizens of greater Germania. We could perhaps consider ourselves to be German?

In that case, in a roundabout way we must be British then.

KeithAFC · 14-04-2012 4:56pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

OP - we are not British, but since we are now citizens of greater Germania. We could perhaps consider ourselves to be German?

On my signal, release hell..

LordSutch · 14-04-2012 5:05pm

later12 wrote: »

You don't need your coat, just get yourself a copy of Census 2011 demographics.

Unless you're talking about genetic heritage, which I generally find mind bogglingly irrelevant, but it seems to be something that nationalists (and I include unionists in that) take great comfort in.

Can someone's self-identity really be so poor that he has to compensate for it by clinging to an emotional attachment to the long forgotten dead, instead of building his or her identity on the contemporary society he lives in?

Evidently so.

I'm not really talking demographics; Firstly there is Britishness, then there is 'being from Britain', then there is being a person being born in this group of islands (T.B.Is), then there is the culturally British thing, then there is the heritage issue, then there is the genetic family connections, so what I am saying is that there are many Irish people who can tick at least on of those boxes. One may not identify at all with the Union flag, but that doesn't mean that the pesron hasn't some kind of British seam running through them, take the 2nd/3rd generation Irish in London for example, are they British?

How Irish are You? might also throw up some interestiong thoughts.

Chuck Stone · 14-04-2012 5:12pm

Our cultures and heritage cross over hugely.

Like Wibbs has said their jingoism can be somewhat disturbing. How the British establishment is able to turn military disasters into something to be 'celebrated' or at least making it part of the British psyche, that is held dear, is quite some achievement.

I watched a program about British soldiers who'd returned from Afghanistan with their legs and arms blown off and couldn't help but wonder why British people put up with their young men being sent thousands of miles away to die for obtuse reasons.

The British have an incredible industrial, scientific and cultural heritage and yet they seem to overlook it to celebrate the Royals and things of a military nature be they successes or failures.

Odd.

Fratton Fred · 14-04-2012 5:18pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Our cultures and heritage cross over hugely.

Like Wibbs has said their jingoism can be somewhat disturbing. How the British establishment is able to turn military disasters into something to be 'celebrated' or at least making it part of the British psyche, that is held dear, is quite some achievement.

I watched a program about British soldiers who'd returned from Afghanistan with their legs and arms blown off and couldn't help but wonder why British people put up with their young men being sent thousands of miles away to die for obtuse reasons.

The British have an incredible industrial, scientific and cultural heritage and yet they seem to overlook it to celebrate the Royals and things of a military nature be they successes or failures.

Odd.

What military failures do we celebrate in Britain?

later12 · 14-04-2012 5:31pm

LordSutch wrote: »

take the 2nd/3rd generation Irish in London for example, are they British?

I guess they should consult their passports on that one.

My passport says Ireland. I presume it is the same for most Irish people. That much is pretty straightforward.

I have no idea why some people want to change the focus to align themselves with what their ancestors' ethnic or geographical backgrounds were - sometimes going back hundreds of years. How on Earth is this relevant to anything today?

LordSutch · 14-04-2012 5:51pm

later12 wrote: »

I guess they should consult their passports on that one.

My passport says Ireland. I presume it is the same for most Irish people. That much is pretty straightforward.

I have no idea why some people want to change the focus to align themselves with what their ancestors' ethnic or geographical backgrounds were - sometimes going back hundreds of years. How on Earth is this relevant to anything today?

Yes I agree with all that Later12, I have an Irish passport therefore I am Irish, that's perfectly true, but I am talking about 'another level' where people do and say things which reflect a deeper cultural identity which is part of being born in, and raised in these islands. Those Irish people born in London or Manchester with Irish passports will claim to be 100% Irish (Not British), therein lies part of the wider debate.

Certainly, British culrural identity is very strong here in the ROI, but as I say, most Irish people would dismiss this straight away.

14-04-2012 5:58pm

I am 100% British and very proud of it despite having spent most of my life in Ireland.
What I find hilarious is that there are people in this country who have Irish passports and yet cannot speak Irish or English.

KeithAFC · 14-04-2012 5:59pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What military failures do we celebrate in Britain?

Not many I would imagine. The Empire didn't lose that often.

Chuck Stone · 14-04-2012 5:59pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What military failures do we celebrate in Britain?

I put 'celebrate' in inverted commas for a reason.

It's more that dying in far flung fields seems to be glorified. The British role in WW1/II seems to be a preoccupation of the British media.

Poppy day has grown from being remembering the dead day to a strange brand of poppy fascism with TV presenters and politicians wearing it for days before.

This isn't just confined to the British btw. All states seem to be partial to a bit of glorifying death and destruction to some degree.

ricero · 14-04-2012 6:04pm

im probably more influenced by british customs and cultures even though im 100 per cent irish

DEFTLEFTHAND · 14-04-2012 6:08pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not many I would imagine. The Empire didn't lose that often.

Not often yes. The Battle of Isandlwana springs to mind during the Zulu war. However Britain were vastly outnumbered to be fair.

later12 · 14-04-2012 6:20pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Yes I agree with all that Later12, I have an Irish passport therefore I am Irish, that's perfectly true, but I am talking about 'another level' where people do and say things which reflect a deeper cultural identity which is part of being born in, and raised in these islands.

If someone wants to align themselves with what they perceive to be a specific cultural identity, that's fine by me. I'm sure most of us have UK relatives of some kind. But please don't dismiss that as most Irish people being British even "to a degree". If that's a cultural identity someone like you wants to construct for yourself, fine. Maybe leave others out of it though.

I for one am happy to consign to irrelevance the notion of a "cultural background" which has no bearing on life today.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not many I would imagine. The Empire didn't lose that often.

Winning a war and suffering a human disaster are only mutually exclusive if avoiding a war incurs a greater human cost than its pursuit.

I'm not sure that British history is exactly brimming with unavoidable warfare.

That's not a slur on British people today by any means, it's just relevant to the point you seem to be making, I feel.

Dudess · 14-04-2012 7:05pm

IrishGeordie wrote: »

Irish through and through brother!

I'm not convinced. I'm reading that in a Gazza accent. :pac:

pragmatic1 · 14-04-2012 7:10pm

I have an Irish name, grew up in a gaeltacht, love Irish culture and history, and don't in any way, shape or form identify with the British.

sock puppet · 14-04-2012 7:15pm

Nicole Raspy Misfortune wrote: »

What I find hilarious is that there are people in this country who have Irish passports and yet cannot speak Irish or English.

Damn right. Fucking toddlers.

sdanseo · 14-04-2012 7:16pm

senorwipesalot wrote: »

What do you love about our neighbours?
Do you like them alot more than the kuntz next door.

Ya?

I hear you're a racist now. father.

Wibbs · 14-04-2012 7:48pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I watched a program about British soldiers who'd returned from Afghanistan with their legs and arms blown off and couldn't help but wonder why British people put up with their young men being sent thousands of miles away to die for obtuse reasons.

That's an imperial mindset for you. The French and Germans and the US to name but three have it and 9 times outa 10 it's the working class being shot to hell. To be fair to the British military, they'll also throw their upper class into the bullets too. More than some anyway.

Their sentimentality can be odd too. I remember that IRA bomb that targeted the household cavalry in London in the early 80's(IIRC). Men killed and horribly injured. Horses too. Whose name of the victims do I remember? Sefton. A horse. I remember the outpouring of grief for the horse. I remember it showing up on Blue Peter with the chap who had been in his saddle when the bomb detonated. He had been badly injured too, but of his name I remember naught. It was all about the bloody horse.

The British have an incredible industrial, scientific and cultural heritage and yet they seem to overlook it to celebrate the Royals and things of a military nature be they successes or failures.

Again that's imperial thinking for you. Though with the empire more a memory and the royals as much a soap opera as anything that does seem to be changing. Good for them too IMHO.

KeithAFC wrote:

Not many I would imagine. The Empire didn't lose that often.

True, though it can be viewpoint too. Remember Agincourt! can be a cry of victory and yep they won that battle, but were soundly thrashed by the French in the overall war. Meh all cultures are like that. Individuals the same. We tend to avoid looking at the darker parts and the failures and the "jaysus that was lucky Ted".

The Irish are the same. We look with green tinted eyes at our own history. Though we're slightly different in that we're also OK with celebrating glorious failures more often. Then again the English can sometimes do that too. Charge of the light brigade and all that. We're generally better at being poetic about it mind you.

I would say the Irish are more willfully contradictory as a people though. It's one of the things I love about us. Even this very thread question shows it up.

ejmaztec · 14-04-2012 8:00pm

Domo230 wrote: »

English people are too health and safety conscious. Thy don't know how to let go unless it is when they are blitzed out of their skulls with drink.

It's good to share something in common.:pac:

Richard · 14-04-2012 8:36pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Not often yes. The Battle of Isandlwana springs to mind during the Zulu war. However Britain were vastly outnumbered to be fair.

Yes, but there were Zulus. Hundreds of 'em.

How British are You?

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