Is gay marriage a threat to humanity?

coffee_cake · 11-01-2012 11:27am

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Too many assumptions going on there Father Damo.

Can we see some incidents where the kids of straight folks refused to be friends or interact with children raised by gay parents?

Father Damo wrote: »

I honestly think if you are arguing that this wouldnt happen in your typical Irish secondary school you are telling a few porkies. Its Ireland. We are, and always will be, the most old school country in Western Europe. It wont ever change. What works in California or Holland cant automatically be transferred to Ireland, people simply have a more old school, violent mindset.

So that's a no then

Father Damo · 11-01-2012 11:33am

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I'm not arguing anything...I am simply asking you to point out some incidents that back up your claims...as i believe this makes for a stronger argument.

".

How in the fcuk can I come up with that? You could probably count on your fingers the amount of gay headed families in Ireland, and most of them are from under 10 years.

Think back to when you were 14, how you and your mates would have regarded a kid in this position. FFS I knew a lad whos surname was Fay who got an awful time for merely rhyming with gay, even though there wasnt a thing gay about him IMO. This is the level of the Irish teenager, you arent going to change that.

Out of curiousity would you agree that gay marriage should be legalised in Afghanistan? Or is it better off illegal at the current time for the good of everyone, seeing as anyone with anything to do with it would likely end up beheaded. Its just not wise to push through legislation that would give freedoms in one hand but lead to awful ramifications for those involved.

Father Damo · 11-01-2012 11:38am

Actually a better way of articulating it would be:

Would you have liked to have been the child of a gay couple, and have went to your old school? Would you have copped more beatings than the average kid?

Think thats the end of the discussion right there

Logical Fallacy · 11-01-2012 11:40am

Father Damo wrote: »

How in the fcuk can I come up with that? You could probably count on your fingers the amount of gay headed families in Ireland, and most of them are from under 10 years.

Think back to when you were 14, how you and your mates would have regarded a kid in this position. FFS I knew a lad whos surname was Fay who got an awful time for merely rhyming with gay, even though there wasnt a thing gay about him IMO. This is the level of the Irish teenager, you arent going to change that.

So, basically your main argument against gay adoption and gay marriage is that kids are bastards?

Okay, in that case i suggest we segregate schools based on race, religious denomination and whether a kid crew up in a developed urban area or in a more rural area. We should also divide classes up by weight and hair colour...as these may all lead to kids being bullied...and that seems to be an important enough factor to be used to limited people's freedoms...so it must be pretty important.

Out of curiousity would you agree that gay marriage should be legalised in Afghanistan? Or is it better off illegal at the current time for the good of everyone, seeing as anyone with anything to do with it would likely end up beheaded. Its just not wise to push through legislation that would give freedoms in one hand but lead to awful ramifications for those involved.

I agree that gay marriage should be legal wherever gay people wish to marry.

If anyone or any group would interfere with these freedoms then they should be punished.

I don't really see what your point is. I guess we should go back in time and tell Rosa Parks to get down the back of the bus as someday Martin Luther King will get shot.

Father Damo wrote: »

Actually a better way of articulating it would be:

Would you have liked to have been the child of a gay couple, and have went to your old school? Would you have copped more beatings than the average kid?

Think thats the end of the discussion right there

I wouldn't give a crap once i had parents who loved me. I doubt the kids i went to school with, or the Christian Brother we had as a principle, could have found any more reasons to dish out some beatings.

coffee_cake · 11-01-2012 11:42am

"i don't like it so i don't think anyone should be allowed"

good argument

i suppose the fact i didn't get slagged or beaten wouldn't count :rolleyes:

Logical Fallacy · 11-01-2012 11:45am

bluewolf wrote: »

i suppose the fact i didn't get slagged or beaten wouldn't count :rolleyes:

There we go Father Damo...someone with a gay parent who didn't get slagged or beaten vs me, a person with straight parents who did get slagged and beaten.

Looks like your thread killing post had died with a whimper.

Father Damo · 11-01-2012 11:50am

Yak yak yak.

Bluewolf....you are a girl, right? I would think its somewhat different for girls. But dont let common sense and your refusal to accept the mindset of the average 14 year old boy get in the way of the campaign eh!

This is all getting a bit pointless really. People saying Irish teenage lads arent homicidally homophobic, its like trying to argue that the Irish dont actually enjoy a drink as much as people think. I think we have reached the point long ago of people telling a few fibs and porkies in regards to it all so Ill leave it there.

MagicSean · 11-01-2012 11:52am

When it comes to adoption the rights of the parents take second place to what is best for the child. There is no point dismissing the bullying aspect with some emotional tripe about banning gingers from having children. You can't control what a child will look like when conceiving. But when it comes to adoption there is a choice involved.

I disagree with the claim that children would be segregated by their peers. Relationships are formed in the early years of school. While a five year olds class mates may be confused at his two fathers they will not discriminate. They aren't capable. If they do it would be most likely as a result of an outside family influence.

When it comes to adoption the only important thing is that both parents are suitable and responsible. I've seen foster kids placed with straight families I wouldn't give my dog to. If the gay couple show that they can provide a safe and healthy home and upbringing then there is no reason they shouldn't be allowed.

Logical Fallacy · 11-01-2012 11:54am

Father Damo wrote: »

Yak yak yak.

Bluewolf....you are a girl, right? I would think its somewhat different for girls. But dont let common sense and your refusal to accept the mindset of the average 14 year old boy get in the way of the campaign eh!

This is all getting a bit pointless really. People saying Irish teenage lads arent homicidally homophobic, its like trying to argue that the Irish dont actually enjoy a drink as much as people think. I think we have reached the point long ago of people telling a few fibs and porkies in regards to it all so Ill leave it there.

Are the first 3 words of your post your way of saying "Well, damn, some good points going on here that show up the lack of logic and general fear mongering i am doing, so i'd better start dismissing them"?

Once again, please post links to evidence that indicates that Irish teenage boys are "homicidally homophobic", which is a pretty massive claim.

Basically you are saying that gay marriage and adoption should not be legal because other children will kill the children of gay parents?

Quite the claim...i think you are letting your shaky argument descend into pure hyperbole at this point.

Basically you have no decent argument, you can't cite any evidence for the argument that you have and you have been slowly ramping things up from "bullying" to "murder".

Well done sir, hilarious stuff.

Benny_Cake · 11-01-2012 11:58am

MagicSean wrote: »

When it comes to adoption the rights of the parents take second place to what is best for the child. There is no point dismissing the bullying aspect with some emotional tripe about banning gingers from having children. You can't control what a child will look like when conceiving. But when it comes to adoption there is a choice involved.

I disagree with the claim that children would be segregated by their peers. Relationships are formed in the early years of school. While a five year olds class mates may be confused at his two fathers they will not discriminate. They aren't capable. If they do it would be most likely as a result of an outside family influence.

When it comes to adoption the only important thing is that both parents are suitable and responsible. I've seen foster kids placed with straight families I wouldn't give my dog to. If the gay couple show that they can provide a safe and healthy home and upbringing then there is no reason they shouldn't be allowed.

I would have hoped that it was obvious that I wasn't being entirely serious about gingers!

As for the rest of your post, my thoughts entirely, the interests of the child should always come first, and same-sex couples should meet the same, stringent requirements for adoption as straight couples.

Father Damo · 11-01-2012 11:58am

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

.

Basically you are saying that gay marriage and adoption should not be legal because other children will kill the children of gay parents?

Yes.

Actually murder? No.

Suicides due to bullying? Severe beatings? Without a doubt.

Would these issues be as big of a problem in much of mainland Europe? Holland for example? Probably not. Dare I say it a large proportion of the Irish population are like cavemen. And it will never change.

Are you lying if you are saying you dont believe it? Goes without saying.

Pathetic.

starbelgrade · 11-01-2012 12:01pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Its just not wise to push through legislation that would give freedoms in one hand but lead to awful ramifications for those involved.

If we postponed affording human rights to people simply because it would upset the narrow-minded, the bigoted & the intolerant, then we'd still be living in the Dark Ages.

If you don't stand up to things like racism, homophobia, intolerance etc., then you allow them to prosper. In a modern word, no civilised society could or should allow that to happen.

Duggy747 · 11-01-2012 12:03pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Yes.

Actually murder? No.

Suicides due to bullying? Severe beatings? Without a doubt.

Would these issues be as big of a problem in much of mainland Europe? Holland for example? Probably not.

Are you lying if you are saying you dont believe it? Goes without saying.

Pathetic.

So...........rather than tackle the public perception and issues of bullying, things should just ignored?

Things like homophobia should be tackled, not brushed away so it won't offend others.

Logical Fallacy · 11-01-2012 12:03pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Yes.

Actually murder? No.

Suicides due to bullying? Severe beatings? Without a doubt.

Would these issues be as big of a problem in much of mainland Europe? Holland for example? Probably not.

Are you lying if you are saying you dont believe it? Goes without saying.

Pathetic.

But you said "homicidally homophobic".

That means murder.

So basically you are now saying you didn't mean what you posted at all?

And yet the people who disagree with you are the ones telling fibs.

lol, i ****ing love AH.

And i have never said it wouldn't be an issue...i have said pretty much all along that i don't think it's enough of an issue to change my opinion that gay people should be allowed to marry and adopt.

I am sure when Irish people first left this country for America that they were the victim of terrible acts of prejudice and racism, and i am also sure that in the long term it was to their benefit to leave and as time went on the racism got less as communities bonded.

Social change is not always a comfortable thing...and to shrink from such discomfort merely makes you a coward. To use such discomfort as an argument for continued discrimination makes you a fool.

Father Damo · 11-01-2012 12:03pm

Final point- look at Dublin compared to other places around the world- why do you think you see gays walking hand in hand in Sydney all the time yet I think I have seen it maybe twice in my life in Dublin? Because of the people around them. In Dublin gay people know full well they are leaving themselves open to being assaulted by some tracker wearing goon. They are too afraid to hold hands in public, to advertise they are clearly gay.

Grown adults are too afraid to do it in Dublin for fear of attack from other adults, and you are suggesting 12 year old kids should be faced with a similar situation?

Logical Fallacy · 11-01-2012 12:06pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Final point

You already implied you were done in this thread once before...so please don't get my hopes up a second time.

MagicSean · 11-01-2012 12:07pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

But you said "homicidally homophobic".

That means murder.

So basically you are now saying you didn't mean what you posted at all?

And yet the people who disagree with you are the ones telling fibs.

lol, i ****ing love AH.

And i have never said it wouldn't be an issue...i have said pretty much all along that i don't think it's enough of an issue to change my opinion that gay people should be allowed to marry and adopt.

I am sure when Irish people first left this country for America that they were the victim of terrible acts of prejudice and racism, and i am also sure that in the long term it was to their benefit to leave and as time went on the racism got less as communities bonded.

Social change is not always a comfortable thing...and to shrink from such discomfort merely makes you a coward. To use such discomfort as an argument for continued discrimination makes you a fool.

But with this issue there is a difference. It's one thing to fight against racism and homophobia but in this case it is the child that would have to do it and i think what Damo is asking is would it be fair to expect a child to do that?

starbelgrade · 11-01-2012 12:11pm

Father Damo's argument is that we should not allow gay marriage because of the possible threat of homophobic bullying by teenagers.

By extending that same logic, we should probably ban people from having ginger kids, fat kids, kids with speech impediments, kids who look a bit weird, gay kids - in fact any type of kid who might look a bit different.

If we start to breed homogenized kids then there should be no problem and zat vey ve can move tovards a better future... vhere ve vill build a master race & ve can take over ze world!!!

MagicSean · 11-01-2012 12:11pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

You already implied you were done in this thread once before...so please don't get my hopes up a second time.

You know your posts on this thread are coming across as those of a bully? Picking on what someone says and deliberately taking it out of context and childish comments like the above. It's not exactly ideal to challenge his claim of schools being full of bullies by acting the bully yourself.

Father Damo · 11-01-2012 12:12pm

MagicSean wrote: »

But with this issue there is a difference. It's one thing to fight against racism and homophobia but in this case it is the child that would have to do it and i think what Damo is asking is would it be fair to expect a child to do that?

Exactly.

People bringing up Martin L King....honestly. He was a grown man who realised he was putting his life in danger for his beliefs and did it anyway. People here are suggesting putting the mental and physical wellbeing of kids on the line for their own holier than thou beliefs.

starbelgrade wrote: »

By extending that same logic, we should probably ban people from having ginger kids, fat kids, kids with speech impediments, kids who look a bit weird, gay kids - in fact any type of kid who might look a bit different.

Check my first post in this thread. Moronic arguement.

MagicSean · 11-01-2012 12:18pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

Father Damo's argument is that we should not allow gay marriage because of the possible threat of homophobic bullying by teenagers.

By extending that same logic, we should probably ban people from having ginger kids, fat kids, kids with speech impediments, kids who look a bit weird, gay kids - in fact any type of kid who might look a bit different.

If we start to breed homogenized kids then there should be no problem and zat vey ve can move tovards a better future... vhere ve vill build a master race & ve can take over ze world!!!

Ah yes, the ill thought out emotional response I referred to a few posts back. You cannot choose the genetic make up of your child. You can choose the parents of an adopted child. It is unfair to expect a young child to fight a war on homophobia just because you want equal rights. Father Damo has a valid point but I think it is a bit outdated and that we have moved on to a point where this problem would not be so widespread.

DarkJager · 11-01-2012 12:19pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Tell me what Im missing here. Aids is spreading in Africa because people are either too poor to afford condoms or simply dont want to use them and think it wont happen to them. Anyone who thinks the church has anything to do with it shouldnt be allowed to speak without supervision of a responsible adult by their side tbh.

A deeply religious country in case you didn't know. So yeah, when this asshole and others like him portray contraception as being evil, these people tend to listen.

coffee_cake · 11-01-2012 12:21pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Check my first post in this thread. Moronic arguement.

it sure is

Paparazzo · 11-01-2012 12:22pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yup - he tried to leave via www.kountmeoutofzenaziparty.com but before he could send the form off didn't the sneaky feckers change the rules so now all he can do is have his interest in leaving noted in a wee book they keep next to the membership folio.

Best post ever on AH the internet

Paparazzo · 11-01-2012 12:25pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Check my first post in this thread. Moronic arguement.

Translation:
"I'm losing the argument, so go back to a completely different unrelated point I made and address that instead"

Immaculate Pasta · 11-01-2012 12:26pm

Hehe the poll results look like a penis. How fitting :pac:

Sleepy · 11-01-2012 12:31pm

The only way I could see gay marriage being even a moderate threat to humanity would be if it were compulsory for all of humanity.

Even then, however, I think you'd still have enough people prepared to have heterosexual extra-marital sex to ensure the continuation of our species tbh.

The teachings of the catholic church with regards to condoms, intolerance and family planning combined with their hoarding of unutilised capital, while not necessarily a threat to all of humanity would be far more damaging than consenting adults formalising their romantic relationship in the eye of the state. I was going to put an 'imho' at the end of that sentence but then I realised that, it's not just an opinion, it's a logical fact.

Don't let the delusional get ya down OP. Remember, given that there's no upper limit to someone's IQ whilst there's no such thing as a negative one, the average IQ actually flatters the average person...

Benny_Cake · 11-01-2012 12:36pm

Father Damo wrote: »

Exactly.

People bringing up Martin L King....honestly. He was a grown man who realised he was putting his life in danger for his beliefs and did it anyway. People here are suggesting putting the mental and physical wellbeing of kids on the line for their own holier than thou beliefs.

Well, a closer example might be in relation to school desegregation. The first black students through the doors of Little Rock Central High in 1957 were terribly bullied. Should desegregation have not taken place?

Also, society has moved on a lot since I was in school, I suspect this isn't the problem you think it is.

Logical Fallacy · 11-01-2012 12:39pm

MagicSean wrote: »

But with this issue there is a difference. It's one thing to fight against racism and homophobia but in this case it is the child that would have to do it and i think what Damo is asking is would it be fair to expect a child to do that?

So basically a young black child in America in the 60's never had to deal with racism?

Not sure i am seeing the validity of the argument.

MagicSean wrote: »

You know your posts on this thread are coming across as those of a bully? Picking on what someone says and deliberately taking it out of context and childish comments like the above. It's not exactly ideal to challenge his claim of schools being full of bullies by acting the bully yourself.

Please show me where i have taken a post out of context.

Also, how is simply wanting a poster to post what they mean childish?

If Father Damo repeatedly states that he is "done" in the thread, yet keeps coming back to post...it shows me that he lacks the strength of his convictions which i then consider while reading his posts about homidical teenagers.

bronte · 11-01-2012 12:44pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

Father Damo's argument is that we should not allow gay marriage because of the possible threat of homophobic bullying by teenagers.

By extending that same logic, we should probably ban people from having ginger kids, fat kids, kids with speech impediments, kids who look a bit weird, gay kids - in fact any type of kid who might look a bit different.

If we start to breed homogenized kids then there should be no problem and zat vey ve can move tovards a better future... vhere ve vill build a master race & ve can take over ze world!!!

Jesus Christ! I got picked on in school because I paid attention in class and did well in exams. I'm off to report my parents because they encouraged me to study when they should have been teaching me to dumb myself down so I wouldn't offend the dunces. The bastards.

Is gay marriage a threat to humanity?

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