SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

Patser · 29-02-2012 1:14pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I didn't hear the interview this morning but apparently Pearse Doherty quoted a printing company estimate of approximately 50,000 newsletters (not sure if that is 1 page printed front and back) for that amount of cartridges, so 25,000 per year.

I did hear that interview, it was the Pat Kenny show this morning, and Pearse Doherty said that Dell had estimated that amount of cartridges would only produce 46,000 high quality, glossy, double-sided newsletters. Which, if true, meant it was costing more than €1 each in ink alone to produce this 'literature'.

Mind you Pearse didn't say that's how many were actually printed, just suggested it could be that low, possibly, you know, until proven otherwise.

Laminations · 29-02-2012 1:35pm

"I'm no freeloader. Part of my job as a TD and a public representative is to ensure that the public who elect me are kept informed," he said.
Last night, it emerged that Mr O Snodaigh's use of printer cartridges had dropped from a high of 215 in 2007 -- when there were no limits -- to just 18 last year. The cost of each printer toner ranges from €164 for a colour version to €48 for a black and white one.

His constituents either have to be informed or don't have to be informed, but we shouldn't accept him saying they have to be informed, but only when the taxpayer foots the bill.

What was so important that they had to get leaflets in 2007/2008 but not in 2009 onwards? Total discretionary indulgent waste of money. It needs to be investigated and now that Mary Lou has Said she '"can guarantee that all of the cartridges used were for the purposes envisaged and that Aengus used them legitimately and correctly in the course of his political work" she should face consequences if any misuse is uncovered.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sinn-fein-make-heavy-use-of-state-sponsored-toners-3034611.html

handlemaster · 29-02-2012 1:56pm

Where is the corresponding paper purchases/ supply for these cartridges !

Bannasidhe · 29-02-2012 2:09pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Where is the corresponding paper purchases/ supply for these cartridges !

It emerged last night that the Oireachtas does not monitor the amount of paper used by individual members -- which meant there were no limits on the paper supplies that Mr O Snodaigh could obtain.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sinn-fein-make-heavy-use-of-state-sponsored-toners-3034611.html

No way of knowing how much paper used or how much it cost apparently. The one thing we can be sure of is that the taxpayer paid for the paper too.

alastair · 29-02-2012 2:10pm

A cursory glance at this pic from irishelectionliterature suggests that AOS favours edge-to-edge or full bleed printing for his newsletters. I'm not aware of any Dell printer (if Pearse Doherty is right, and that's the printer we're talking about) that'll actually produce proper edge-to-edge prints, and if we're talking about inkjets, none of this stuff looks like inkjet printing. It looks like what it probably is - regular offset litho - which isn't going to turn into an inkblotter in the rain. Ignoring the obviously older materials here, and the purely election campaign stuff - which he couldn't print from the office, there's still nothing here that looks like it constitutes part of his massive constituency output.

meglome · 29-02-2012 2:39pm

alastair wrote: »

A cursory glance at this pic from irishelectionliterature suggests that AOS favours edge-to-edge or full bleed printing for his newsletters. I'm not aware of any Dell printer (if Pearse Doherty is right, and that's the printer we're talking about) that'll actually produce proper edge-to-edge prints, and if we're talking about inkjets, none of this stuff looks like inkjet printing. It looks like what it probably is - regular offset litho - which isn't going to turn into an inkblotter in the rain. Ignoring the obviously older materials here, and the purely election campaign stuff - which he couldn't print from the office, there's still nothing here that looks like it constitutes part of his massive constituency output.

As someone who in a previous life was involved in the tech side of digital printing I find it very hard to believe what SF are saying on this. What you show above just backs that up.
No one is their right mind would use basic inkjet printers for large amounts of printed material. It would A. be expensive and B. it would take an age to get the stuff printed. and C. the quality wouldn't be great.

john reilly · 29-02-2012 3:00pm

jmayo wrote: »

I don't know why people are shocked or even surprised at this.

Remember how during the Westminster expenses furore it came out that SF, the party that has refused to sit in parliament, was still claiming expenses for living in London.

So why is it a surprise now that SF would not join the gravy train in the Republic ?

I have to say there are probably a few ffers around today wishing they had actually come up with this scam.
Jeeze if they had maybe there could have been a new print supplier in Caherciveen or Castlebar.

so sinn fein mp's were claiming expenses from the british. I for one hope they took them for every penny they could

JustinDee · 29-02-2012 3:09pm

john reilly wrote: »

so sinn fein mp's were claiming expenses from the british. I for one hope they took them for every penny they could

Oh the irony of it all . . .

jmayo · 29-02-2012 3:30pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Where is the corresponding paper purchases/ supply for these cartridges !

Not alone that where are the printers.
Because one single printer would not have lasted doing such an output.

john reilly wrote: »

so sinn fein mp's were claiming expenses from the british. I for one hope they took them for every penny they could

I always found it hugely ironic that all those fighting to get the Queen out of Northern Ireland were more than happy to accept free money from her government. :rolleyes:

Rafa1977 · 29-02-2012 3:50pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and it now emerges that no record is kept of paper consumption :eek:.

Absolutely, kippy, it is about the lack of standards shown by those in public office.

Incorrect. Paper consumption is recorded like toner. When somebody goes to the Stores room it is recorded aganist their name in the same way as toner.

Dr Galen · 29-02-2012 3:52pm

The posting standards in this forum are going to have to improve or else we're looking at sanctions being handed out and/or the thread being locked. That would be a serious shame because this is a really valid topic and should be discussed here.

Cheers

DrG

murphaph · 29-02-2012 4:22pm

Things really don't add up here. Did O'Snodaigh take 215 toner cartridges or 215 inkjet cartridges?

Either way it's a disgrace and he should foot the bill himself but if he took 215 toner cartridges then I think it's a lot more sinister. You couldn't use up that sort of quatity of toner in 2 years unless you had an army of printers as well.

In any case, laser printed or injkjet printed material wouldn't be suitable for handing out as flyers and jusging by the samples above, most if not all is clearly from a printing works. So where did these 215 cartridges really go?

Stripey Cat · 29-02-2012 4:31pm

murphaph wrote: »

In any case, laser printed or injkjet printed material wouldn't be suitable for handing out as flyers and jusging by the samples above, most if not all is clearly from a printing works. So where did these 215 cartridges really go?

It's like a mystery, wrapped up in an enigma, isn't it?

Unless, maybe he did actually print a lot of leaflets and newsletters, and letterheaded paper, and write to a lot of people.

And the Daily Mail, Indo, et al have overstated the figures for the amount of literature you actually can print with these cartridges, just to suit their own agenda, in a week when SF were doing well in the polls at the expense of more establishment parties.

And the problem for SF was that they didn't have lots of money from private donors to spend on printing like these other parties, so they tended to rely on Leinster House facilities, which are expensive to the taxpayer, but free to them.

That could be it.

Or he could be emptying the ink out into a bath to swim in?

Bannasidhe · 29-02-2012 4:49pm

Stripey Cat wrote: »

It's like a mystery, wrapped up in an enigma, isn't it?

Unless, maybe he did actually print a lot of leaflets and newsletters, and letterheaded paper, and write to a lot of people.

And the Daily Mail, Indo, et al have overstated the figures for the amount of literature you actually can print with these cartridges, just to suit their own agenda, in a week when SF were doing well in the polls at the expense of more establishment parties.

And the problem for SF was that they didn't have lots of money from private donors to spend on printing like these other parties, so they tended to rely on Leinster House facilities, which are expensive to the taxpayer, but free to them.

That could be it.

That could indeed be it. The problem I have with that explanation is while I have yet to hear any resident in his constituency state that they recall receiving large numbers of SF newsletters during the period in question I have heard a lot claim to have never received a leaflet from him at all.

Sully · 29-02-2012 4:50pm

So while the few that are trying to defend this expense, can I ask this.

The whole idea behind this, according to the good man himself who may I remind everyone claimed 30k expenses in 2011(!!!!), was to be a good TD and inform the people. Hence why he spent 50k of our own money over a few years trying to communicate with the people on a daily basis. However, when new rules were introduced meaning a TD is only given a certain level of free printing - he cut the printing down significantly.

So this means that he either stopped communicating with people as often as he did, because he wont spend his own wages on it, or he is getting it outsourced to an outside firm who are keeping his communication levels the same and he is indeed spending his own wages (or maybe its part of the 30k expenses) on communicating with the people. IF it was the latter, than why has he exceeded the "free" level of printing by a few grand and not paid it back yet? It also shows a level of tightness that he wants to rob us for as much as he can take. We also never heard of any tendering process, or regardless, heard of who is doing his printing.

With all this taken into account - good or bad, he was and still is robbing us blind for as much as he can taken. Between these expenses and his general expenses, he is not exactly painting the Sinn Fein image in a great light.

murphaph · 29-02-2012 5:13pm

Stripey Cat wrote: »

And the problem for SF was that they didn't have lots of money from private donors to spend on printing like these other parties

Eh, come again?

To be honest I don't like that SF should be using my taxes to make up a shortfall in donations to their party! Perhaps they should lobby towards a limit or ban on this propoganda junk mail, rather than entering into an arms race with FG paid for out of my taxes!

rodento · 29-02-2012 5:37pm

Would love to know if the toner cartridges matched the make/model of his printer

Sierra Oscar · 29-02-2012 5:37pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That could indeed be it. The problem I have with that explanation is while I have yet to hear any resident in his constituency state that they recall receiving large numbers of SF newsletters during the period in question I have heard a lot claim to have never received a leaflet from him at all.

Going by some figures, O'Snodaigh would have had to drop 100 leaflets to every household in his constiuency in order for his figures to stack up. I would imagine he was producing literature for outside of his constiuency, which he denies.

juan.kerr · 29-02-2012 5:47pm

Sounds like someone did a hard copy backup of their extensive stash of pornographic material.

Stripey Cat · 29-02-2012 5:49pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I would imagine he was producing literature for outside of his constiuency, which he denies.

Would that be so bad though?

Ministers falsifying mileage claims put the money into their own pockets. In contrast, it sounds like you're accusing him of helping out campaigns like the anti-bin charges groups etc.

Is that really such a big deal?

Godge · 29-02-2012 5:54pm

Stripey Cat wrote: »

Would that be so bad though?

Ministers falsifying mileage claims put the money into their own pockets. In contrast, it sounds like you're accusing him of helping out campaigns like the anti-bin charges groups etc.

Is that really such a big deal?

If it was his money, no big deal.

Problem is, it was with my money.

[Deleted User] · 29-02-2012 5:57pm

I have no basis for this other than conjecture, but could what's happening here be that O'Snodaigh has been taking cartridges and paper and various other sundries and allowing them to be used by various other cash strapped sinn fein grass roots political activists, volunteers, community people etc?

Is it a case of "just drop your printing down to the constituency office and he'll print up any leaflets etc that you need as long as it's SF related? He would deny this I'm sure, but at the very least there should be an investigation into it, and a request to pay back the money if that's what he was at.

Why there are any rules in place at all about what you can and can't print seems ludicrous if any TD can just walk out of Leinster house with a toner under their arm as often as they like, and go and print in the privacy of their own constituency office.

JustinDee · 29-02-2012 5:59pm

Stripey Cat wrote: »

Would that be so bad though?

Ministers falsifying mileage claims put the money into their own pockets. In contrast, it sounds like you're accusing him of helping out campaigns like the anti-bin charges groups etc.

Is that really such a big deal?

Yes, it is a big deal actually.
Generalistic allegations don't really cut it when weighed up against those actually caught taking liberties/the p*ss.

The excuses made on his behalf are as trite and pathetic as the attempts at morally relativist justification.

happyman81 · 29-02-2012 6:00pm

It's a sad reflection on this forum that this thread has received more posts than the referendum thread...

meglome · 29-02-2012 6:06pm

happyman81 wrote: »

It's a sad reflection on this forum that this thread has received more posts than the referendum thread...

A thread on Sinn Fein will do that every time. That said, there is no date for the referendum yet so it's still early days on that score.

Sully · 29-02-2012 6:48pm

Aengus must be delighted. Both the government and Fianna Fail have made announcements in the past two days to further push his story away from the media spotlight. Gwan the shinners!

jmayo · 29-02-2012 6:53pm

happyman81 wrote: »

It's a sad reflection on this forum that this thread has received more posts than the referendum thread...

Don't worry happyman there will be more than enough posts on there, some telling us we should give up our babies to our friends in Europe and some telling us all our future babies will be aborted or fighting in some grand European army.

I think this thread is getting so much air time since the moral guardians of frugality for politicans have been found to have been wasting thousands of taxpayers money on purchasing printer cartridges.

What really is revealing about this story is the way the other SF party TDs are dealing with the issue.
They have resorted to the ff playbook.
They have even claimed ignorance, blamed the system and come up with some excuses that don't hold much water when held up to examination.

I think it is all very revealing, especially to some of their supporters who actually believed they were somehow different. :rolleyes:

Godge · 29-02-2012 7:02pm

happyman81 wrote: »

It's a sad reflection on this forum that this thread has received more posts than the referendum thread...

Yes, it is amazing, it has actually surprised me how many SF-leaning posters read and sound like FF-leaning posters from the CJH, Bertie, Ray Burke, Ivor the Engine era.

Bannasidhe · 29-02-2012 7:06pm

Godge wrote: »

Yes, it is amazing, it has actually surprised me how many SF-leaning posters read and sound like FF-leaning posters from the CJH, Bertie, Ray Burke, Ivor the Engine era.

I'm afraid it didn't surprise me in the least.

raymon · 29-02-2012 8:30pm

Callelyesque , the whole episode

SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

Comments