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Was the Haitian earthquake man-made? [Mod warning post #1]

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    #92
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Angry Troll wrote: »
    any conspiracy theory linking the quake to an anthropogenic origin is obviously meant to be a bad joke or can only have been conceived of by someone lacking even the most rudimentary knowledge of anything.
    beats me how some people really seem to believe a tectonic quake could possibly be man-made and that there could be some sort of conspiracy behind it. it is not man-made and anyone with a basic understanding of how the earth works knows that.
    pointless trying to convince the “believers” as there seems to be just too much heated ideology and anti-american paranoia here...and plain facts mean bugger all to them anyway, so why bother...sort of funny yet also nauseating and in a way almost scary to read some of the posts here…

    You are being quite short-sighted imo. I'd highly doubt the earthquake was anything other than a natural disaster (but its a CT forum, what exactly were you expecting) but the devestation Haiti has suffered was not from the earthquake alone it was highly amplified by the abject poverty that has been forced on Haiti in the main from the US, not to mention CIA removal of its democratically elected leaders TWICE in 15 years.

    Haiti's future? Even further indebted and pushing through of policies to serve the corporations

    a documentation about the situation of haitian sweatshop workers.If you do care about human rights...watch it!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_07CxMF8ac&feature=player_embedded

    anti-american? No. anti-semitic? No. Anti-criminal behaviour? Yes. Beggars belief that some people can't see the difference.


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    #93
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    PirateShampoo wrote: »
    Not very effective organ harvesting now is it.

    So thats your response to organ harvesting? :confused:


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    #94
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    So thats your response to organ harvesting? :confused:


    Well by your posted video i get the impression that your claiming the Isralis are harvesting Haitian body parts.

    How long do you think them harvested parts are gonna last in that heat and not even packed in Ice?


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    #95
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Perhaps you would have a better explanation for the corneas?

    At the Peoples’ Health Assembly in December 2000 in Dhaka, Bangladesh, Dr. Bertell revealed to a shocked and incredulous audience that ‘the latest weapons in the arsenal of the US military is Planet Earth itself ... and weather will be one of the worst destructive weapons by the year 2025’.

    Dr. Bertell was referring to how engineered earthquakes and tornadoes could wreak havoc on populations and nations.

    According to her book, electromagnetic weapons ‘have the ability to transmit explosive and other effects such as earthquake induction across intercontinental distances to any selected target site on the globe with force levels equivalent to major nuclear explosions’.
    According to Dr. Bertell, ‘changes in the earth’s atmosphere bring about corresponding changes in the Earth’s weather and climate’.

    Another method is the use of very low frequency electromagnetic waves in weather modification experiments. These waves can pass through solid earth and oceans and have been used by the military to probe the upper atmosphere and the inner structure of the earth.

    These pulsed, extremely low frequency (ELF) waves, for instance, can be used to convey mechanical effects and vibrations at great distances through the Earth. They can manipulate the weather, creating storms and torrential rains over an area.

    These waves have the potential to generate earth movements. ‘It has the capability to cause disturbance of volcanoes and tectonic plates, which in turn, have an effect on the weather,’ she states.

    For example, earthquakes are known to interact with the ionosphere (the atmosphere 50-373 miles above the earth’s surface). In fact, many of the earthquakes that occurred in recent years were preceded by certain unexplained phenomena, says Dr. Bertell.
    http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/hawa2.htm

    Dr bertrell bio: http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_bio.html


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    #96
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Let's get this back on topic and quit with the anti-Israeli tone and remarks, please.


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    #97
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Haitian police have arrested 10 US nationals on suspicion of trying to illegally take 33 children abroad.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8489738.stm


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    #98
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Haitian police have arrested 10 US nationals on suspicion of trying to illegally take 33 children abroad.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8489738.stm

    just what exactly do 10 american child trafficing criminals have to do with the earthquake itself or the title of this thread?


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    #99
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Angry Troll wrote: »
    just what exactly do 10 american child trafficing criminals have to do with the earthquake itself or the title of this thread?

    "man-made" quake >>>> orphans >>>> orphan abduction


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    #100
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    You still havent proven how its a Man made earthquake.


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    #101
    Somnus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Somnus


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    There have been claims of oil reserves on the island by credible sources

    Who are these credible sources?
    mysterious wrote: »
    In other words, if your going to sit and point blank ignore the foundation and reasonings as to why this all happened, of course you will find it redicolous. It just means anything outside your perception will automatically seem that way, because your following the norm.

    What then are the foundations and reasonings to this happening? Other than natural tectonic activity?


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    #102
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    Dr.Poca wrote: »
    Who are these credible sources?



    What then are the foundations and reasonings to this happening? Other than natural tectonic activity?



    yep, two good questions here...anyone have answers? and i mean real answers, not just a link to some weird freak talking nonsense on youtube...


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    #103
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    Dr.Poca wrote: »
    Who are these credible sources?

    Read this article in full, its got quotes from government, scientists, geologists etc

    http://globalresearch.ca?index.php?context=va&aid=17287


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    #104
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Dr.Poca wrote: »
    Who are these credible sources?

    Read this article in full, its got quotes from government, scientists, geologists etc

    http://globalresearch.ca?index.php?context=va&aid=17287


    Do you have a non biased link ?


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    #105
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    "man-made" quake >>>> orphans >>>> orphan abduction

    So someone has destroyed a nation, and killed over a hundred thousand people, in order to kidnap a relative handful of orphans???

    Do you geniunely believe this to be a credible theory?


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    #106
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    Truthrevolution wrote: »
    Dr.Poca wrote: »
    Who are these credible sources?

    Read this article in full, its got quotes from government, scientists, geologists etc

    http://globalresearch.ca?index.php?context=va&aid=17287


    well, of course “globalresearch” is everything but a scientifically reliable or in any way credible site...and they write "haiti, and the larger island of hispaniola of which it is a part, has the geological fate that it straddles one of the world’s most active geological zones,…" …so where does "man-made" come in for the quake?
    and as for haiti having oil...entirely possible, yet i would have to do some real research into that for the details…and what difference would it make anyway?
    but as somebody here put it, this is a conspiracy thread…so i reckon we have to put up with people claiming preposterous theories…and realism and common sense have no place in this discussion...


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    #107
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Ezili's HLLN underlines these two papers on Haiti's oil resources and the works of Dr. Ginette and Daniel Mathurin in order to provide a view one will not find in the mainstream media nor anywhere else as to the economic and strategic reasons the US has constructed its fifth largest embassy in the world - fifth only besides the US embassy in China, Iraq, Afghanistan and Germany - in tiny Haiti, post the 2004 Haiti Bush regime change.

    The facts outlined in the Dunn Plantation and Georges Michel papers, considered together, reasonably unveil part of the hidden reasons UN Special Envoy to Haiti, Bill Clinton, is giving the UN occupation a facelift so that its troops stay in Haiti for the duration.

    Haiti full of oil (french radio trans)
    Scientists and Ginette Daniel Mathurin indicate that under Haitian soil is rich in oil and fuel fossible have already been listed by foreign specialists and Haiti. "We have identified 20 sites Oil, 'Daniel Mathurin stating that 5 of them are considered of great importance by specialists and politicians.

    The Central Plateau, including the region of Thomonde, the plain of the cul-de-sac and the bay of Port-au-Prince are full of hydrocarbons, "he said adding that the oil reserves of Haiti are more important than those of Venezuela . "An Olympic pool compared to a glass of water that is the comparison to illustrate the importance of oil Haitian compared with those of Venezuela," he explains.

    Venezuela is one of the world's largest producers of oil.

    Daniel Mathurin investigations revealed that several previous governments have made it possible to verify the existence of these important oilfields. He recalls that a document of the Fanmi Lavalas party to power in 2004, had specified the numerous sites of oil in Haiti.

    According to Daniel and Ginette Mathurin, the Lake District, with cities like Thomazeau and Cornillon, contains important oilfields.

    Asked about the non-operation of those sites, Ginette Mathurin said that these deposits are declared strategic reserves of the United States of America. While citing his imcompréhension of such a situation, remember that the Caribbean is seen as the back yard of the United States.

    But Daniel Mathurin And Ginette indicate that the American government had in 2005 authorized the use of strategic reserves of the United States. The door should be used by politicians to launch Haitian négiciations with American companies in the context of the exploitation of these deposits adds Daniel Mathurin.

    The specialists contend that the government of Jean Claude Duvalier had verified the existence of a major oil field in the Bay of Port-au-Prince shortly before his downfall.

    http://www.margueritelaurent.com/pressclips/oil_sites.html#fortliberte


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    #108
    Truthrevolution
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Truthrevolution


    Angry Troll wrote: »
    Truthrevolution wrote: »


    well, of course “globalresearch” is everything but a scientifically reliable or in any way credible site...and they write "haiti, and the larger island of hispaniola of which it is a part, has the geological fate that it straddles one of the world’s most active geological zones,…" …so where does "man-made" come in for the quake?
    and as for haiti having oil...entirely possible, yet i would have to do some real research into that for the details…and what difference would it make anyway?
    but as somebody here put it, this is a conspiracy thread…so i reckon we have to put up with people claiming preposterous theories…and realism and common sense have no place in this discussion...

    Why is it not a credible or reliable site, cause its not part of the mainstream media network???
    As for the earthquake, theres no real evidence back it up so yea its still a conspiracy theory.But you also have to realise that once upon a time the "weapons of mass destruction" lie was also a conspiracy theory.........


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    #109
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    MoyVilla9 wrote: »
    The publication of the story came just days after Chavez himself accused the U.S. of using the earthquake as an excuse to "invade and militarily occupy Haiti," a nation so poor that its entire economy is based on foreign aid — particularly from the U.S.

    why would you want to invade a country like that?
    mysterious wrote: »
    Well ice melting into water would seem redicolous to us if we lived on planet that never freezes.

    In other words, if your going to sit and point blank ignore the foundation and reasonings as to why this all happened, of course you will find it redicolous. It just means anything outside your perception will automatically seem that way, because your following the norm.

    Which is why I asked for you to look into it. But again you won't. That is your personal choice, but don't announce something to others as redicolous just because your not open to it.

    This is whats disucussed here on this forum, maybe one wouold ask what are you trying to do here if you wont add to the dicussion or be open to the conspiracy?

    The burden on proof is on you, you're insisting that this was caused by a secret weapon, when the much more simpler and logical explanation is that it was a natural disaster. It's hilarious that you're painting him as the crazy one.


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    #110
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Angry Troll wrote: »

    well, of course “globalresearch” is everything but a scientifically reliable or in any way credible site.

    please clarify. If you have any reason to believe so.


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    #111
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    please clarify. If you have any reason to believe so.


    too many activists and non-scientific folks publishing there...too much ideological nonsense...surely also some good stuff here and there, yet all in all not a site i would see as a reliable source for serious discussion…
    of course some folks believe anything some activist posts somewhere or claims in a youtube video if it fits their own ideas…as is of course in the nature of any conspiracy theory…maybe i just keep forgetting this thread is about a conspiracy theory, albeit a particularly preposterous and distasteful one, and not really about science or facts…


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    #112
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    phantom_lord wrote: »
    why would you want to invade a country like that?

    Oil, Uranium, Zyconium
    Scientists Daniel and Ginette Mathurin indicate that under Haitian soil is rich in oil and fuel fossible which were collected by Haitian and foreign experts. "We have identified 20 sites Oil, launches Daniel Mathurin stating that 5 of them are considered very important by practitioners and policies.

    The Central Plateau, including the region of Thomond, the plain of the cul-de-sac and the bay of Port-au-Prince are filled with oil, he said, adding that Haiti's oil reserves are larger than those of Venezuela . An Olympic pool compared to a glass of water that is the comparison to show the importance of oil Haitian compared to those of Venezuela, "he explains.

    Venezuela is one of the world's largest producers of oil.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.metropolehaiti.com/metropole/full_une_fr.php%3Fid%3D13439&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=ISO-8859-1

    Gold and Iridium
    SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic, November 17, 2009 .- The former president of the Dominican Petroleum Refinery (REFIDOMSA), Leopoldo Espaillat Nanita, considered one of the solutions of the Haitian State to pay its foreign debt and solve socio-economic issues that overwhelms Haitians found in deposits of gold and other minerals that owns the territory of the neighboring country.

    Espaillat Nanita revealed that according to geological studies and research conducted on Haitian soil, indicating that the nation shares with the Dominican Republic gold deposit, untapped world's largest and a little known and rare mineral that is vital for building of spacecraft and other appliances extraterrestrial iridium. These two resources are sufficient to alleviate the "poor" reality of those born in Haiti.
    The architect also claimed that these resources are poorly understood because of a multinational conspiracy that aims to extract their natural wealth Haitians, especially those derived from minerals that abound in the neighboring state.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.espacinsular.org/spip.php%3Farticle8942&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=ISO-8859-1



    phantom_lord wrote: »
    The burden on proof is on you, you're insisting that this was caused by a secret weapon, when the much more simpler and logical explanation is that it was a natural disaster. It's hilarious that you're painting him as the crazy one.

    How exactly do you expect him to prove it was cause by a secret weapon?


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    #113
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    How exactly do you expect him to prove it was cause by a secret weapon?

    Proof might be asking a bit much, but surely there is a valid question to be asked as to what suggests that an earthquake in an earthquake-prone area was somehow abnormal.

    In the absence of some sort of abnormality - something to give even the slightest hint that this earthquale was atypical - then the conspiracy theory we end up with is effectively this:

    A typical earthquake in an earthquake-prone area might have been atypical....not because of any evidence to support this, but because someone might stannd to gain from it, if other claims are also true.


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    #114
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    How exactly do you expect him to prove it was cause by a secret weapon?

    I'm just trying to understand why he believes in it so strongly? cause i don't see any reason to.


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    #115
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    goes without saying in science as in any serious discussion that any such theory will have to be verified somehow before we can seriously start discussing it…and in this case here i see no proof or any indication whatsoever that this quake could have been man-made…in fact it is not possible for it to be man-made, purely scientifically…after all this is just a conspiracy theory and as such based on somebody’s fantasy…


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    #116
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Angry Troll wrote: »
    but as somebody here put it, this is a conspiracy thread…so i reckon we have to put up with people claiming preposterous theories…and realism and common sense have no place in this discussion...
    Angry Troll wrote: »
    of course some folks believe anything some activist posts somewhere or claims in a youtube video if it fits their own ideas…as is of course in the nature of any conspiracy theory…maybe i just keep forgetting this thread is about a conspiracy theory, albeit a particularly preposterous and distasteful one, and not really about science or facts…
    Angry Troll wrote: »
    …after all this is just a conspiracy theory and as such based on somebody’s fantasy…

    Okay. I'm sure everybody understands how you feel now.


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    #117
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    bonkey wrote: »
    Proof might be asking a bit much, but surely there is a valid question to be asked as to what suggests that an earthquake in an earthquake-prone area was somehow abnormal.

    In the absence of some sort of abnormality - something to give even the slightest hint that this earthquale was atypical - then the conspiracy theory we end up with is effectively this:

    A typical earthquake in an earthquake-prone area might have been atypical....not because of any evidence to support this, but because someone might stannd to gain from it, if other claims are also true.

    I can only speak for myself but I believe it was a natural disaster while not ruling it out as an absolute impossibility. All I am trying to do is explore this slim possibility for discussions sake. I'm not interested in proving anything one way or the other because it would be impossible to do either way rendering it a waste of time.

    Would the US kill innocent civilians to further their own greed?
    Absolutely yes. History has proved this. They dropped a nuke, and very recently they fabricated intelligence to fight in an illegal war that killed a million innocents.

    Could they have caused the earthquake in Haiti?
    Who's to say what top secret exotic weapons are at their disposal today? None of us can answer that. Therefore none of us are in a position to accurately say whether it is possible or not.


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    #118
    Angry Troll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭Angry Troll


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Okay. I'm sure everybody understands how you feel now.


    haha yeah, think i have made that one clear enough indeed…was just under the impression some folks here really believe the quake could have been man-made…the sort of idea that easily spawns dangerous ideologies and hatred once taken as fact…


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    #119
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Angry Troll - please read the opening post of this thread, and the charter


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    #120
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I can only speak for myself but I believe it was a natural disaster while not ruling it out as an absolute impossibility. All I am trying to do is explore this slim possibility for discussions sake. I'm not interested in proving anything one way or the other because it would be impossible to do either way rendering it a waste of time.
    Posting as mod - any further discussion should be taken to the Feedback thread, so we don't go too far off-topic

    I think it would be fair to understand the term "burden of proof" to mean more than that anyone shouldering such a burden must prove something or retract it....that (as outlined in the charter) a claim has some evidence to support it, even if it can't be proven outright.
    Would the US kill innocent civilians to further their own greed?
    Absolutely yes. History has proved this. They dropped a nuke, and very recently they fabricated intelligence to fight in an illegal war that killed a million innocents.
    There are no shortage of nations and groups would will kill innocent civilians to further their own greed. Such argument, at best, would allow that if there were evidence of the disaster being caused, then the US should not be ruled out from amongst the suspects on this basis.
    Could they have caused the earthquake in Haiti?
    Who's to say what top secret exotic weapons are at their disposal today? None of us can answer that. Therefore none of us are in a position to accurately say whether it is possible or not.

    This argument can be made about a virtual infinity of ideas. In effect, what it says is that if we can't prove something to be impossible, who are we to say that its not what might have happened.

    If someone started posting that the earthquake was caused by dark magic, to further the aims of a secret cabal of evil wizards who's ultimate goal was to gain control of Davy Jones' Locker....I'm pretty confident that someone other than me would be unhappy with people pulling the **** and making a mockery of the forum. The post, however, could be defended using exactly the same argument that you have just done....as could any amount of mockery.

    This is why, ultimately, that the charter mentions that this is not the Creative Writing forum...it is not a place for flights of fancy supported by no evidence whatsoever.

    Thus, it is ultimately not unreasonable to expect anyone making allegations in a thread like this to be able to offer some sort of evidence, as opposed to just making wild claims and ignoring the burden of proof entirely


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    #121
    rccaulfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭rccaulfield


    What a sad limited world sum of you conspiracy hypothesis people live in! Get out in the real world its way more intersting! Hate to break it to yis but we live on a cooling planet where this type of thing happens in certain regions.


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