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Gardai now wearing personal video recording devices !

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Comments

  • #62
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Has there been any evidence posted yet of Gardai using personal cameras and recording people while on duty? Because if not then the little rant above seems a little OTT to me.

    No evidence at all - just a number of suggestions on this thread that it would be great for Gardai to use personal cameras - hence my answers.


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RainyDay wrote: »
    How will I know that I've been recorded? How will the Supt know? How long will the Garda retain copies of the videos for dealing with enquires? How will the Garda keep these copies secure?

    Not be be sounding smart or anything, but you could ask the Garda who is wearing it when they get a free moment. Or ask a supervisor if they at the scene.

    Regarding CCTV, video recordings etc, my personal view is if somebody wants to record me in public or on a private premises I don't care. I also don't care how long it is kept for.

    As long as people aren't using it for voyeuristic purposes or for criminal intent then I don't see what the problem is.


  • #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RainyDay wrote: »
    No evidence at all - just a number of suggestions on this thread that it would be great for Gardai to use personal cameras - hence my answers.

    I would be in favor of wearing a body worn camera issued by the job. Wouldn't be going spending my own cash on one.


  • #65
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    If a police officer arrests someone on a crowded street they will be recorded by as many phones that are inclined.

    If the garda asks the public for the footage most would send it. So if you act in a way worthy of filming, you will be filmed. The footage probably uploaded before the cuffs are taken off you.

    Not to mention commercially installed. CCTV.

    In short if you have some major issue with being on camera best you stay indoors.


  • #66
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    RainyDay wrote: »
    No evidence at all - just a number of suggestions on this thread that it would be great for Gardai to use personal cameras - hence my answers.

    If that was meant to reference me, I think you will find I am in favour of wearing the cameras regardless of where they come from. Something is better than nothing. But, as has already been said by someone else, I will not be spending my own money on it.


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  • #67
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    Zambia wrote: »
    If a police officer arrests someone on a crowded street they will be recorded by as many phones that are inclined.

    If the garda asks the public for the footage most would send it. So if you act in a way worthy of filming, you will be filmed. The footage probably uploaded before the cuffs are taken off you.

    Not to mention commercially installed. CCTV.

    In short if you have some major issue with being on camera best you stay indoors.

    The kind of conversations I might be having with a Gard are probably not the kind of videos I want sitting on somebodys personal device.

    I don't get why people don't understand the data protection problems. If somebody is recording me on a camera phone or CCTV then fire away if I'm in public. If somebody is recording me on a camera phone and we're in private I'll tell them to turn the thing off.
    If I'm being recorded from a camera strapped to a Gards jacket I'd prefer if that video was protected by legislation and proper security policies.

    Commercially installed CCTV is protected by legislation.


  • #68
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    foreign wrote: »
    Not be be sounding smart or anything, but you could ask the Garda who is wearing it when they get a free moment. Or ask a supervisor if they at the scene.
    And likewise, not to be sound smart, but would I know that the Garda could be wearing a recording device in the first place? Or should every Garda be asked before/after every engagement as to whether they are recording?


  • #69
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    timetogo wrote: »
    The kind of conversations I might be having with a Gard are probably not the kind of videos I want sitting on somebodys personal device.

    I don't get why people don't understand the data protection problems. If somebody is recording me on a camera phone or CCTV then fire away if I'm in public. If somebody is recording me on a camera phone and we're in private I'll tell them to turn the thing off.
    If I'm being recorded from a camera strapped to a Gards jacket I'd prefer if that video was protected by legislation and proper security policies.

    Commercially installed CCTV is protected by legislation.

    The example in the op was of a protest underway. The gardai would not be recording 24 7 the whole shift.

    Asking the content of the gardai to be curtailed when all and sundry are not is a little silly to be fair.

    I reckon the gardai have policy's in place in relation to the recording written or otherwise of data that could address your concerns.


  • #70
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    Zambia wrote: »
    The example in the op was of a protest underway. The gardai would not be recording 24 7 the whole shift.

    Asking the content of the gardai to be curtailed when all and sundry are not is a little silly to be fair.

    I reckon the gardai have policy's in place in relation to the recording written or otherwise of data that could address your concerns.

    Are you assuming that the guard will only record during incidents and that there are policies.
    Because if you are that's not worth the paper its written on.

    Loads of bad publicity or security incidents have occurred because people assumed their employees would be using good sense.


  • #71
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    timetogo wrote: »
    Are you assuming that the guard will only record during incidents and that there are policies.
    Because if you are that's not worth the paper its written in.

    Loads of bad publicity or security incidents have occurred because people assumed their employees would be using good sense.

    What exactly are you afraid of the garda recording?


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  • #72
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    Zambia wrote: »
    What exactly are you afraid of the garda recording?

    Ffs. I'm not. I'm afraid of Gards using personal devices with no policies and training.

    E.g. I report something to a Gard who records it by mistake on an eBay camera that he loses later on that day to be found by anyone and the files copied off it. It's not likely but it's not impossible. I'd imagine a camera on a jacket could fall off easily in a scuffle.

    On a proper device it'd be encrypted and record everything and then logged at the station. I'm fine with that.


  • #73
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    If it became standard issue,a standard disclaimer on the car and even on the jacket(small :-)) would probably suffice..
    Would there be a difference in court acceptance depending on how a recording was used... Ie. As evidence to support or make a prosecution ,or offered for a gardas (or anyone else's ) defence ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #74
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    timetogo wrote: »
    Ffs. I'm not. I'm afraid of Gards using personal devices with no policies and training.

    E.g. I report something to a Gard who records it by mistake on an eBay camera that he loses later on that day to be found by anyone and the files copied off it. It's not likely but it's not impossible. I'd imagine a camera on a jacket could fall off easily in a scuffle.

    On a proper device it'd be encrypted and record everything and then logged at the station. I'm fine with that.

    It just seems to me you are introducing legal handcuffs on the Garda using cameras to protect themselves. While not considering the rest of the population.


  • #75
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Has there been any evidence posted yet of Gardai using personal cameras and recording people while on duty? Because if not then the little rant above seems a little OTT to me.
    RainyDay wrote: »
    No evidence at all - just a number of suggestions on this thread that it would be great for Gardai to use personal cameras - hence my answers.

    There was actually a video I saw where a member appeared to be using an iPhone to film water meter protesters.


  • #76
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,400 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    donvito99 wrote: »
    There was actually a video I saw where a member appeared to be using an iPhone to film water meter protesters.

    Was it his own or one provided for him though?


  • #77
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Zambia wrote: »
    It just seems to me you are introducing legal handcuffs on the Garda using cameras to protect themselves. While not considering the rest of the population.

    How can any of the sensible controls suggested here be described as 'handcuffs'? Is it really too much to ask that there be a clear, legal policy about retention and usage of material recorded?


  • #78
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Gardaí purchase and wear these of their own accord because the level of false complaints against them is so high. It helps to be able to put another side to the story when the Ombudsman comes knocking. You wouldn't know it from that video but a few seconds before it there had been a big struggle after protesters tried to charge through the Gardaí.

    Incidentally, if anyone can recommend a good one I'd appreciate a PM

    Your wrong, Gardai have been issued the mini cctv camera to attach to their outer jackets in case of false allegations / vexatious complaints made by the water protestors who are recording the GARDAI.

    One member in 6 will have one issued who have to attend the protests, they are Garda issue and they do not have to buy them. I have been informed by a member that this is the case.

    A member has confirmed this to me. Its a public place so no need to have any signage that CCTV is being used for gathering of evidence/ recording etc

    Its a well known fact that the group E***** have been trying to cause breach of the peace when IRISH Water staff are trying to install the meters at various locations in the Dublin area. The same individuals are turning up when they are not even resident in the estates where installation is taking place.


  • #79
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I assume it wouldn't be really difficult for the Government to legislate that gards and other emergency personnel and their vehicles should be allowed be equipped with cameras on all areas ...
    Might be a few terms and conditions .. But could be worked out with data protection commissioner ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #80
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Seems I was wrong and they are being issued at some protests. I wonder will it be expanded at all.


  • #81
    Paulzx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Markcheese wrote: »
    I assume it wouldn't be really difficult for the Government to legislate that gards and other emergency personnel and .

    Why would they need to legislate? Plenty of ambulances already carry them. If Dublin Bus can have cctv cameras fitted that record both inside and outside the bus and use the footage as they have in the past why would it be any different for any emergency service?


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  • #82
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Paulzx wrote: »
    Why would they need to legislate? Plenty of ambulances already carry them. If Dublin Bus can have cctv cameras fitted that record both inside and outside the bus and use the footage as they have in the past why would it be any different for any emergency service?

    To be fair, you could ask the same question about recording calls to Garda stations. People lost their heads over what should be standard procedure.


  • #83
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I find the protesters video's seem to be edited to show only what they want to be shown.
    Still makes them look like idiots.


  • #84
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    laurenhiggins wrote: »
    Is there not a law saying that it couldn't be used in court because the person is unaware of getting recorded.
    If you're in the public area, you're fair game. I say this as someone who sometimes photos people in public places whilst photographing something else.
    Paulzx wrote: »
    Why would they need to legislate? Plenty of ambulances already carry them. If Dublin Bus can have cctv cameras fitted that record both inside and outside the bus and use the footage as they have in the past why would it be any different for any emergency service?
    IMO several cameras should be placed on ambulances and fire engine to help ID the scrotes who attack them whilst they're helping people.


  • #85
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    You shouldn't care if your being filmed if you are doing nothing wrong.


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