[Article] 6,000 learner drivers fined for breaking law

jhegarty · 02-02-2010 9:23pm

Can you point to even one case of this actually happening ?

Mimikyu · 02-02-2010 11:40pm

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corktina · 03-02-2010 9:16am

um in every case of someone who only has third party insurance I guess....

murphaph · 03-02-2010 9:19am

Dear oh dear. PAY A DRIVING INSTRUCTOR FOR LESSONS like most civilised countries in Europe! Do you use your car to get to work etc? If so, then you aren't "learning to drive" you are simply driving without a licence.

Cookie_Monster · 03-02-2010 9:21am

i have to agree the accompanied by a qualified driver is a bit useless to be honest.

It should be like most countries and have to be an instructor

Davidth88 · 03-02-2010 10:02am

Actually I think you need a bit of both.

You HAVE to have a number of lessons with a qualified driving instructor. But I think a few hours driving without an instructor is useful , like learning a musical instrument you need time to practice.

However we are talking about driving on roads with other people here , so you need someone with experience sitting next to you

Mimikyu · 03-02-2010 11:51am

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Ham'nd'egger · 03-02-2010 12:28pm

If you can justify the cost of buying, washing, maintaining, refueling, insuring, taxing etc in running a car, surely the cost of lessons in how to use a car is a small investment that holds to you over the years.

Put it like this, what exactly are you learning without them there than with them there?

Mimikyu · 03-02-2010 12:36pm

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Ham'nd'egger · 03-02-2010 1:09pm

Then go out and get more lessons. If the cost is such an issue then in all fairness you should not have bought a car until such time as you could legally take it out.

It's called a Learners Permit for a very good reason; to permit you to learn to drive. It's up to you to make use of it along with your legal driver beside you.

murphaph · 03-02-2010 4:27pm

It costs approximately €1,000 to €1,500 to get a german driving licence through the system here, which does not allow you to drive alone until you have passed the test and until you can pass the test, you may only drive in a driving school car with an instructor. If you lose your licence in Germany it is even harder to get it back as you have to undergo psychological testing (which you have to pay the state for) to determine if you are fit to sit back behind the wheel. Can you see why a german driver might respect that little pink piece of paper more than you now and why they might drive with more care and attention to hold onto it? (whereas you seem comfortable driving without a licence at all).

It would at least be legal and better than just you as an inexperienced driver being alone in charge of the vehicle. I favour this system also being outlawed and being replaced with a real one, like in Germany. The benefits of better drivers (fewer crashes, less need for stupid roadsigns telling people rules of the road that they should already know etc.) being the return on the extra cost.

Mimikyu · 03-02-2010 5:06pm

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the_syco · 03-02-2010 6:16pm

Pretty sure that cost includes qualified instructors. Until recently, anyone with a license could teach you, and most of them were crap teachers. been a good driver, and a good teacher are two totally different things. Also, german get taught how to drive at night, etc. We're not, nor are we taught in any conditions other than a dry road. Heck, if the road is wet here, your test is cancelled. I'd say there is a wet road test in Germany?

Ham'nd'egger · 03-02-2010 6:28pm

A provisional licence is not a licence. A driver with a full licence is in the car in a supervisory role, something you as an inexperienced and unqualified driver fail to accept and comprehend.

Cookie_Monster · 03-02-2010 6:57pm

You either hold a learner permit or an out of date provisional licence, neither of which entitle you to drive by yourself

Mimikyu · 03-02-2010 7:25pm

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congo_90 · 03-02-2010 7:35pm

To put jump in here I will say I partly agree with the accompanied driver rule such that having a more experienced driver there may be of assistance. The full licenced driver however is not in control of the vehicle so it's strictly for instruction.

Some prov licences are still that. not permits so useage of either term is fine imo.

What I will say is I rarely drove accompanied when on a provisional and it was no big deal. blah blah stupid law that does nothing for no-one. How can I. A fully licenced driver stop a permit holder crashing?

Mimikyu · 03-02-2010 7:40pm

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markpb · 03-02-2010 9:17pm

They're supposed to be there to teach you, to correct your mistakes and offer advice based on their (supposed) experience. If you think they need dual controls, perhaps you don't have much confidence in your driving

Instead, they should be reprimanding you if you tailgate, fail to make sufficient progress, indicate, etc. I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend - it would be better if it was restricted to driving instructors but everyone (yourself included) would complain about the terrible oppression and how expensive it is.

Mimikyu · 03-02-2010 10:16pm

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markpb · 03-02-2010 10:45pm

But isn't that a good enough function? The problem is that most people, once they've mastered the basic skills, consider themselves a competent driver and aren't aware of the faults they have developed. Having someone beside you watching you is vital to keeping you on the right track.

T-Square · 03-02-2010 10:53pm

It means just like it does in the shops,
up to 50% off, in other words, nothing is 50% off, and if you get 10% off you'll be doing well.

Like the poster above said, it'll be 20 in the poor box, and a little slap on the wrist for little Johnny who was only driving to work uninsured, no license, while banned.

Wishbone Ash · 04-02-2010 12:31am

The last Provisional Licences were issued on the 29th of October 2007. The maximum duration of a Provisional Licence is 2 years. The issuing of Learner Permits began on the 30th October 2007.

I'd be most interested to hear how you think some Provisional Licences are still valid? You should really get your facts right before commenting on a public forum.

Captain Morgan - many of us have done lessons and passed driving tests for categories of vehicles which we didn't own and therefore were only able to practise while doing lessons and therefore had to be accompanied. I didn't have a car, motorcycle, truck or bus at home in which I could practise on. What makes some people so special that they should be considered OK to drive unaccompanied?

murphaph · 04-02-2010 9:52am

Yes, that's the approximate cost for lessons, classroom lessons before even stepping into a car! Then the cost for the test istself and so on, but a German licence is itself valid for life-a new one with new picture does not cost anything.

Germans must also do lessons on the Autobahn and if there's one nearby they will be tested on it. There is an exemption for people that simply live too far from one, but not many can avail of that thanks to the dense motorway network!

annieobrien8 · 04-02-2010 11:55pm

markpb your comment made me laugh! Not at you but at the idea that accompanying drivers prevent a learner from developing bad habits. I know you're right but it doesn't happen in reality! People who've held full licences for 2 years or more tend to have forgotten all the proper driving rules like no coasting, no tailgating etc. By that stage they're driving with one hand on the wheel, they lane hop, they use mobile phones while driving... and some just sit back and relax for the journey!

There's also a downside to insisting on a person being accompanied. Learner drivers probably need to concentrate more while driving but having someone in the car encourages chatting and general distractions!

Cookie_Monster · 05-02-2010 9:22am

if chatting to someone distracts you then don't do it, it shouldn't distract you anyway. His post makes a very good point.

Accompanying drivers, if doind what they're supposed to while supervising, will stop many bad habits such a riding the clutch, encourage correct use of lights and indicators, make driver aware of correct gear for situation, explain road layouts or signs where driver may be confused, and many other things

annieobrien8 · 05-02-2010 9:54pm

I didn't say it distracts me, I'm just pointing out that chatting is a potential downside to that rule. People don't suddenly become mutes because they're sitting in a car.

And cookie monster you again are quoting the theory behind the requirement of an accompanying driver. It must be great to live in a world where everyone and everything carry out their functions as intended.

I know a lot of people who learned to drive in the last couple of years so I know how useful, or not, accompanying drivers are.

HydeRoad · 05-02-2010 10:12pm

Barely a quarter of all private cars on the road at any one time are being driven safely, to test standard, with the driver fully aware of what they are doing. At least half of all motorists are to some measure failing either to maintain test standard, or proper observation or concentration. And somewhere near a quarter are probably actively being driven in a dangerous manner, and should be put off the road with further education required.

Bearing this in mind, it is probably fruitless to demand learners to be accompanied at all times by qualified drivers, given that three quarters of those 'qualified' drivers are not up to the business of taking a learner driver to task over bad driving practice. In fact, they are probably in many or most cases, doing more harm than good.

However, some sanction on learner drivers must exist, and far too many learner drivers are taking one or two lessons just to gain confidence to move the car, and then going on to 'teach themselves' how to drive. It is the attitude of absolute entitlement that some learners perceive that marks them out as most likely to have a bad attitude when actually driving the car.

The learner's permit is just that, a permit to LEARN to drive, no more, and it is increasingly urgent that mandatory driving 'hours' under qualified ADI tuition be a requirement for a test APPLICATION. Preferably there would be some communal classroom hours too, in the matters of rules of the road, lane discipline, signalling, junctions, accident procedure, etc. Learner drivers really need to learn the 'attitude' before they ever learn anything else.

Cookie_Monster · 06-02-2010 1:33pm

TBH all of this discussion is redundant until the Gardai actually start enforcing the laws regarding learner drivers. If they activly enforced them and fined people the €1000 people would sotp taking the chance, but at the moment its like most of the laws and punishments in this country, enforced in an ad-hoc and when they feel like it manner

corktina · 06-02-2010 1:50pm

and the title of the thread is....oh yes, 6000 L drivers fined....:D

[Article] 6,000 learner drivers fined for breaking law

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