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Why are groups particularly for minorities considered OK?

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    #32
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »
    I believe that a better idea would be to have clubs that openly accept gay people, but encourage as much straight people as possible also to interact. It would be much better for the future treatment of homosexuality and help closed minded people to come to terms with how homosexuality doesn't change people. Perhaps the biggest problem is the actual name of such clubs. I as a straight man would personally feel unwelcome in a group specifically called Gay gooners, and not because I'm a Liverpool fan. XD


    I would hope, in 2015 that we don't have to resort to pubs having to specifically point out that they "openly accept gay people". Although I agree with your point that specific gay establishements serve to sort of "self-segregate" gays, I think there is still a need for them.


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    #33
    LFC CONNAUGHTON
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭LFC CONNAUGHTON


    OldNotWIse wrote:
    When I was in college I identified as homosexual/bisexual. I was young (19) and insecure. I still remember with fondness the time I spent and the friends I made in both gay and non-gay societies. We had a soc room and it was, like other posters have pointed out, a safe space. You might just go to have a cuppa and organise an event - but it was nice to feel like you could be yourself and not have to screen your words. Now, I am 31 and don't tend to give a shít what people think anyway so there is no need for me to involve myself with "gay friendly" groups but I can still see their merit.


    This really helped me to understand what I was asking. Thank you. I now know that these groups are helpful for those to go to and feel completely safe, until they are able to be just like you, and not care what others think. :)


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    #34
    LFC CONNAUGHTON
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭LFC CONNAUGHTON


    OldNotWIse wrote:
    I would hope, in 2015 that we don't have to resort to pubs having to specifically point out that they "openly accept gay people". Although I agree with your point that specific gay establishements serve to sort of "self-segregate" gays, I think there is still a need for them.


    Hopefully the time will come soon where there is no need for these clubs, but clearly according to some things I've heard that time isn't now.


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    #35
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,798 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »
    This really helped me to understand what I was asking. Thank you. I now know that these groups are helpful for those to go to and feel completely safe, until they are able to be just like you, and not care what others think. :)

    Yes but also some people choose to stay in that circle. I dont see that as a big problem either.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #36
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »
    Hopefully the time will come soon where there is no need for these clubs, but clearly according to some things I've heard that time isn't now.

    There is a much more interesting question provoked by the above and it is to inquire as to why it is hopeful?


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    #37
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,798 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    There is a much more interesting question provoked by the above and it is to inquire as to why it is hopeful?

    I agree. I wouldnt be hopeful of that at all and would be the complete opposite - hopeful that lgbt spaces would continue to exist.

    I dont believe that lgbt are segregationist or a bad thing. I really find the idea that people want them eradicated offensive. I understand not all lgbt people want them or need them or use them but at the same time lots of people do.

    This seems to come from an ideology or idea that equality equals sameness. To me it is not at all. Equality is about diversity. Equality in my view is about recognising and celebrating differences while treating people on an equal footing.

    If LFC C means he is hopeful that mainstream places would be less violent and more toletant and welcoming of diversity I would agree with that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #38
    BetterThanThou
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭BetterThanThou


    The entire purpose of groups for minorities are so people can go and meet other people of their group. I can go anywhere and meet a straight person. It's not to segregate a group away from people who aren't a member of that group, I'm sure most gay groups would happily welcome a straight member if they wanted to join, as all gay bars do. Gay people want to meet gay people, and gay bars aren't always the best option for that, some people don't drink and others want to do it while they're sober, that's why gay groups exist.


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    #39
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,798 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    BetterThanThou wrote: »
    The entire purpose of groups for minorities are so people can go and meet other people of their group. I can go anywhere and meet a straight person. It's not to segregate a group away from people who aren't a member of that group, I'm sure most gay groups would happily welcome a straight member if they wanted to join, as all gay bars do. Gay people want to meet gay people, and gay bars aren't always the best option for that, some people don't drink and others want to do it while they're sober, that's why gay groups exist.

    Exactly it serves a purpose of people socialising together with other people who understand them. I really dont understand this segregation argument at all or this idea that lgbt spaces are bad because it means lgbt people are not integrated with the rest of society. Whats the big deal? Some men like to socialise with other men. Some Irish people like to socialise with other Irish people, etc, etc.

    I would hope that people looking at this from the outside would look at it in a positive frame of mind rather than seeking to destroy it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #40
    LFC CONNAUGHTON
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭LFC CONNAUGHTON


    Joeytheparrot wrote:
    If LFC C means he is hopeful that mainstream places would be less violent and more toletant and welcoming of diversity I would agree with that.


    exactly what I meant. and for these places to be about a place you could go to meet with fellow LGBT people, not because you don't feel accepted in other places


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    #41
    LFC CONNAUGHTON
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭LFC CONNAUGHTON


    If these places were to be used to celebrate diversity it wound be great but unfortunately they must be used as somewhere LGBT people feel safe. They should feel safe and comfortable everywhere, not just in their own clubs etc.


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    #42
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »
    If these places were to be used to celebrate diversity it wound be great but unfortunately they must be used as somewhere LGBT people feel safe. They should feel safe and comfortable everywhere, not just in their own clubs etc.

    I think everyone agrees about the "should" part but there's no point in just being idealistic. There are times I don't feel safe just walking around in broad daylight because of my atypical gender presentation. That's life at the moment, but it's a hell of a lot better than it was for someone like me 50 years ago when all I could have hoped for was either being forced to wear dresses etc. or work in manual labour, practically "as a guy". I mean, I have to tone my preferred way of presenting to the world down for work, not actually because of anything from my bosses point of view, more from how other people will view me- and I'm in a pretty darn liberal sector! But progress is happening, it's just slow. And if you're not directly affected by it, it might be hard to see, but I can see a massive difference between now and say when I started college, 15 years ago.

    But it's nice to sometimes go not just somewhere where I'm "accepted" or "tolerated" but actually somewhere where people are like me, and think "hey, her bowtie is awesome!" or whatever it is. And that's not always gay clubs, by the way. Probably the most welcoming and celebratory scene I've ever experienced is the burlesque scene, which isn't gay, or straight, it's just... burlesque. I know that I get laughed at by some people in the gay community, I know that they look at me pityingly, like "oh god, look at the sad middle-aged butch with her short hair and mens clothes." Luckily now that I'm middle-aged I don't give 2 sh*ts what the 20 year olds think, but hey!


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    #43
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    There is a much more interesting question provoked by the above and it is to inquire as to why it is hopeful?

    It's hopeful that there is no need, as opposed to hopeful they cease to exist.


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    #44
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    It's hopeful that there is no need, as opposed to hopeful they cease to exist.

    Well hopefully there will be no fear based need. I still hope we live in a society mature enough to handle some out and proud diversity.


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    #45
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Well hopefully there will be no fear based need. I still hope we live in a society mature enough to handle some out and proud diversity.


    I agree! Maybe I took the post up wrong! :)


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    #46
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »
    To start off, I would just like to say that in no way am I a racist or a homophobic person or anything like that but I am simply asking this question out of curiosity. For example, say an LGBT club that called itself that is fine, but a club that advertises itself as a straight club would be considered non okay?

    90%+ of people are straight. You don't need a club... your everyday life is your 'straight club'


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