Attitudes towards unemployment in Ireland

Sheensie · 02-04-2011 10:07pm #1

Hi all. I'm currently doing some research for an article I'm writing about attitudes towards unemployment in this country.

I'm hoping to get a wide perspective on this from both employed and unemployed people. If you're unemployed, how do you feel you are viewed by your peers, family, society and perspective employers? On the other hand, if you are lucky enough to have a job, how do you feel towards those who are unemployed? Is there still an attitude that those who want to find work will do so, or has society become more empathetic as the dole queues have lengthened?

If you are interested in giving me your perspective on this in detail, from either side of the fence, I'd love to chat to you - please PM me and I'll give you my contact details and further information.

Regardless of the fact that I'm researching an article here, I think that this is a timely topic and one that merits a thread on Boards as a forum for debate.

Thanks.

gandalf · 03-04-2011 11:10am

Sheensie wrote: »

Regardless of the fact that I'm researching an article here, I think that this is a timely topic and one that merits a thread on Boards as a forum for debate.

Well if you feel it merits a thread on boards then the engagement should be on boards and not via PM shouldn't it?

Sheensie · 03-04-2011 4:49pm

gandalf wrote: »

Well if you feel it merits a thread on boards then the engagement should be on boards and not via PM shouldn't it?

Yes, engagement via boards would be fantastic but if anyone would like to share their personal experiences of unemployment for the purpose of the article I am writing then I would like them to have the option of talking to me in confidence.

jimmurt · 03-04-2011 7:33pm

Hi I'm employed.

Why do you think employed people should count themselves lucky to be employed (the rate is around 15% isn't it). I find some people are unlucky to be umemployed. Add qualifications and experience and some people should definitly not consider themselves lucky to be unemployed.

The majority of people I know that are on the dole are looking for work and hate being unemployed. Having said that, I also know a fair amount of piss takers who won't work and probably never will unless they come across something handy that pays well.

I have relations who are claiming JSA while they are waiting to go back to college. In a way I don't blame them for taking advantage of Ireland's generous social welfare system but it's hard to take when I read my payslip each month and see the amount of PAYE, PRSI and USC I'm after paying.

dan_d · 03-04-2011 8:55pm

I'm unemployed.

I...don't really care how people view me. As in, it's embarassing for 2 seconds when I find myself saying "well actually I'm unemployed", but I get over it.
I find it to be a draining, frustrating experience though - it's like being on the other side of a really, really high fence, watching everyone else living their lives and going to work, and feeling like you can just never get back through that fence - you can't find the location of the gate to walk through.

I find that most people I know of my own age (28) know at least some unemployed people, and so don't pass too much comment on it. There are a number of teacher and public servants among my aquaintances however, and it annoys the hell out of me when they start talking about how underpaid they are. It's not because "oh I'm unemployed, poor me". It's because I'm hunting for a job and in my industry, (engineering) 30k-35k is considered a decent wage at the moment, regardless of your level - it's really difficult to hear a teacher or public servant you know are on 45k+, and telling you how badly off they are. I didn't earn that when I was employed and working 50hour weeks.

I also hate hearing people making statements like "ALL those on the dole are the same". The way the country is right now, I genuinely can't believe there are people out there who can still think that. That there are people who still think every single person claiming the dole is a complete waster, scamming the system and living a fine life. When in fact a huge proportion are professional or hard-working people who have fallen on bad times, through no fault of their own, and would give anything to have a job. It's something that's often said around here "all the welfare scammers..." and annoys me SO much, because it's completely wrong, and shows an unbelievable level of ignorance on the part of those who say it.

So yeah. I really hate it and in many ways I find it's embarassing, but I suppose those who actually know me know how much I want a job and how hard I'm trying and I guess that's all that matters.

mrbig73 · 03-04-2011 9:10pm

I was unemployed for 8 months, but got no assistance whatsoever! as in no dole, no job seekers, nothing!

For me it did become embarassing as time went on. Alot of it was in my head, but I got to the stage where i didnt like meeting people i knew because I hated saying taht I was out of work! Most of the time people are ok about it, but its the sense of pity that is tough. theres only so many times that you can hear "something will come up".

As you might read in a topic I started, I have 2 offers now which is an amazing feeling. If I stay in Dublin, I am going to offer free interview and CV advice to people, as I learnt so much during my 8 months. But it does consume every waking minute so people must also keep living their lives.

gandalf · 03-04-2011 9:51pm

Just got employed after being 6 months unemployed. It was a frustrating experience because even though I am in an industry that is hiring it was next to near impossible to get an interview. Was I embarrassed by being unemployed, no to be honest I wasn't. My job went due to no fault of my own, I was actively looking for work and I did a course while I was unemployed. To be honest I am now more embarrassed when people ask me in my new place of employment where did I come from saying that I was unemployed.

A lot of former colleagues were also unemployed over the last couple of years and for them the average time being out of work was around 3-6 months.

From being on the dole queue for six months it is obvious that the vast majority on there want to get work and are actively trying to get work. However it is also obvious that there are a minority who are either caught in a trap of relying on hand outs from the state and there needs to be a way of incentivising them into getting back into employment partly by offering employers incentives but also by stepping the payments back over time as well.

Did me and my family suffer during my unemployment, not really. We lost out on luxuries, we had to economise. I was lucky with regard to the fact I had insurance on my mortgage and had a decent amount of savings to fall back on which have been eaten into and the knowledge that my wife was always going back to work when her maternity leave finished. What has it taught me. To ensure we keep saving because it is better to have savings to fall back on than worry unnecessarily during harsh times. It has also thought me that during times like that it is more important to maintain a positive mental attitude.

boobar · 03-04-2011 10:37pm

Hi, I am in employment.

My wife is also employed. We both feel very fortunate to have work and reasonable incomes. However, I feel that I studied hard and trained hard.

My view is that the vast majority of people who are unemployed want to work. I don't view social welfare payments as hand-outs. I don't get involved in slating people because they are receiving social welfare payments because I think it is unfair to do so.

I have family and friends in the construction industry who have become unemployed and I think this is a very difficult problem to solve. I don't think it as simple as "just retrain".

I hope this helps with your research in some way.

alanm54 · 04-08-2011 12:58pm

O yes, I am one of the lucky people who have taken advantage of the governments plan to suck 100's of billion out of the economy. i.e the finacial disaster. 6 months ago after being at home as the primary carer for our first little girl, my wife and I seperated. And i had to give up a very good job due to stress. 6 months on and I am homeless and find myself having to live on the social. Whle I have seen families make their lives around getting money from the system, most people are on the dole as a necessity. Your friends who are working feel embarressed to talk about holidays, cars, what they did, where they went last night. To the point they try to aviod seeing you. When you meet someone and chat them up, you expect to be rejected as you have no work,money. The social syetem is not in place to help you out of the mess and back to work. Rather to allow you just to survive but not to get out of the mess. The image of a very big/high wall which you look over seeing the world living and you kept on the side lines wondering how do I get to live again is a very good one. You stop living on the dole, you stop thinking about what you will do, your dreams are put on hold. The platitudes of something will come up, your at the bottom the only way is up come out. My god for those who want help to work, everything should be done to help them, for those who have made a life style choice well, in my view give them a chance and if they dont take it, reduce their entitlements.

RATM · 04-08-2011 1:24pm

As a recruiter I do see a stigma from many clients in receiving CV's of people who are unemployed. There is a school of thought that asks why another employer does not want them and even if they get to interview stage they are always at a disadvantage over those who are already in jobs. Sad but true.

alanm54 · 04-08-2011 1:44pm

These days everyone knows someone, is related to someone, lives near someone who is unemployed or has been unemployed. It has touched the whole of society. Your statement is true about employers but they have all of the above as well.

Thats why on my CV I always say presently employed, and play it by ear. Hey any chance you could take a look at my CV and give me some advice. I have to get myself work to enable me to get to see my beautiful daughter who my wife is taking to the UK.

<email removed>

starlit · 04-08-2011 2:13pm

RATM wrote: »

As a recruiter I do see a stigma from many clients in receiving CV's of people who are unemployed. There is a school of thought that asks why another employer does not want them and even if they get to interview stage they are always at a disadvantage over those who are already in jobs. Sad but true.

It's quiet unfair that recruiters think like that when receiving CV's of those unemployed for what ever reason. It's not a nice attitude or approach to have, each candidate should be seen as an equal. There are a number of reasons and factors that contribute to them not being employed. The recession is no excuse and having a degree isn't a ticket into a job we get that but for those who have work experience compared to those who haven't or very little then that's understandable. For those who have years of work experience whether in a certain field or a variety of fields its still not good good enough? Why is that? Is it their CV or lack of experience/skills/qualities or too much or just dips in one area and not others or has too much variety as in a jack of all trades, which of those are more employable? Is it down to not just experience but skills/qualifications? What is the deciding factor is it that they aren't suited to the role/company? Is it a personality thing?

Its not just one reason why people are unemployed, no matter how much work- experiences qualifications and skills, qualities and type of person they are still isn't good enough for some employers! It might affect some that there is only one or a few reasons they are unemployed but some have a lot going for them compared to others then again its the mindless attitude that some recruiters have when it comes to hiring people they must meet a certain criteria. Sometimes they could already have chosen their candidate and try to measure other candidates up against that person not just measure against what the role requirements dictates. If neither party is open, honest and both have a narrow minded attitude then who wins in that situation? Its often one sided and neither does much to help each other. Recruitment is like 'sales' you market the skills of a client, get commission but mostly just getting a list of random people on a database who has such and such but still don't meet the requirements of the job is that fair that they have the required skills but still don't meet the requirements of the job? Its a case of cat and mouse really.

Obviously tailoring the CV to suit the role you are applying for will help greatly but getting the interviews in important and its an experience, the days are gone when one or two interviews might secure you a job the chances now a days is that you can be at least be trying to do 10 or more interviews before securing employment! Sending well over a 100 CV's is still no guarantee of an interview/job. Its the employer willing to take you on you have to impress them and show that you are the right candidate then its up to them, it still an employers market not so much and employees market like it was a few years ago where you could pick and choose and change careers some people have to try something different to gain employment and seems to be the only way!

starlit · 04-08-2011 2:27pm

alanm54 wrote: »

These days everyone knows someone, is related to someone, lives near someone who is unemployed or has been unemployed. It has touched the whole of society. Your statement is true about employers but they have all of the above as well.

Thats why on my CV I always say presently employed, and play it by ear. Hey any chance you could take a look at my CV and give me some advice. I have to get myself work to enable me to get to see my beautiful daughter who my wife is taking to the UK.

That is very true. It's not just a case of what you know its who you know but even word of mouth or being recommended or referral from someone still isn't enough. You have to present yourself - 'I'm the right candidate pick me!'

Adding a profile to your CV, projects you have done, mention at least five employers from your employment history if you can. Show what you learnt, did, duties and skills developed. Your education and qualifications, just list with name of school, qualification, award and year. Employment history first then your education/qualifications history. Listing your skills and qualities is good, add in the projects you did from college/work, referees on request be fine but adding a line of hobbies would do but not necessary, achievements are more important than hobbies I think.

Adding what you have done to fill your time while unemployed such as a course doesn't necessary have to be academical could be a hobby related or learning a new thing like a language or gardening/cooking or something, a back to work kind of course, reading certain books related to your field to keep up to date you might mention what you do to keep up to date in your field unless you wish to change your field then I suggest retraining or just updating your skills a bit etc. Layout is very important and how its presented. To the point and not too many paragraphs, simple English, good grammar and how it comes across, show you have direction/goals and what you are about. Proofread. You may need to try something different an another area of work that you could be good at or what you have done from previous college/work experience that might help in another field. If you could go to the UK and try and find work there?

Lux23 · 04-08-2011 2:28pm

After a year out of work I have started to avoid some of my friends expecially former colleagues just because I feel crap about myself.

alanm54 · 04-08-2011 2:49pm

I find its your friends that try to avoid you, because they feel guilty. Its not being nasty its just they feel sorry for you and they dont know how to help.

Mance Rayder · 04-08-2011 3:07pm

I know how it feels to have to endure snide remarks and comments. Ive worked from 18 - the age of 24 then became unemployed due to downsizing. Life on the dole is hell, it is degrading, depressing, and you feel like crap. Thank God i went back to college. I am still a student and technically unemployed but I feel a hell of a lot better about myself not being on JA. In just more 2 years I should have a pretty good qualification and my foot in the door to a career in IT.

Mance Rayder · 04-08-2011 3:08pm

alanm54 wrote: »

I find its your friends that try to avoid you, because they feel guilty. Its not being nasty its just they feel sorry for you and they dont know how to help.

I would not consider those people to be real friends.

Attitudes towards unemployment in Ireland

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