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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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    #3002
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    westtip wrote: »
    Does it really annoy - oh dear. Check out a few quotes from West on Track about how many users would use the southern branch line and how many jobs it would create, would those quotes annoy you? The quote you have attributed to me actually comes from the Mayo Advertiser article; the claim for 5,000 jobs incidently is based I think on an entire network of greenways being built around the country - not just the Sligo Mayo Greenway - the sum parts of the whole make the whole; The figure I think was based on the economic papers put in the public domain about the value of greenways to local economies by Sustrans. I ask you to venture to the sustrans website and do some research of your own. It might annoy you even more.:D

    BTW hurrah and congratulations to Derek Wheeler - who started this thread after the original thread was closed down, we have now reached post, 3,000.

    3,000 posts well done Derek on re-starting the infamous WRC thread.

    What annoys me is politcians and campaigners coming out with 5000 jobs here and 3500 jobs there and this plan will create 10000 jobs kind of stuff. As if they can just create jobs at the drop of a hat when clearly they can't. They stifle jobs by their incompetence if anything.

    And yes west on track are the exact same - open the railway and there will be thousands of jobs created, waffle, waffle and spoof.

    Another one is the task force. As soon as a town loses a big employer the governement establishes a jobs task force. Why not establish task forces anyway if they are so effective at creating jobs?

    Greenways will at best create some seasonal jobs and the added benefit is they might underpin some jobs already in place.


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    #3003
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    rainbowdash wrote: »
    Do you honestly believe there as many on the Newport Achill route today as there were on a Sunday in July?

    24/7 types would be up on mountains anyway and living in tents, not taking up beds in hotels and sitting in the pub half the time spending money.

    Yes it will bring in jobs but certainly not 5000 and whatever jobs are brought in are seasonal.

    What part of this will be a local amenity used 365 days a year by local people don't you get?

    Yes accepted the sligo mayo greenway won't bring in 5000 jobs but read the post about the network creating jobs (and yes granted some will be seasonal).

    No there are not as many using the Achill route today as in July. of course not, the fact that there are though still people using it still in December January and Febuary and booking into B&Bs hotels and renting bikes even in the off season adds even more economic weight for the need for greenways. Face facts the Western Rail corridor will not generate jobs and will not be used, so why not put the route to a better use now.


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    #3004
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    corktina wrote: »

    The kind of tourist that would use a Greenway would be all-weather 24/7/365 types in the main not day trippers on a sunday in August.

    Corky not sure I agree with you non this one do you mean these kind of 24/7/365 hardcore tourists like the ones in this clip -- Greenways are about families!!

    This small video clip sums up what the sligo mayo greenway campaign is all about...I urge everyone to click through and give it at least 30 seconds viewing and then think...mmmm I wonder if that could happen here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfDFwDAZnBk

    the second video is more of a promo video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Ov1w7ALZsIc&feature=endscreen

    This is what we shoudl be be aspiring too.


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    #3005
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    westtip wrote: »
    What part of this will be a local amenity used 365 days a year by local people don't you get?


    I get all of that bit.
    westtip wrote: »

    Yes accepted the sligo mayo greenway won't bring in 5000 jobs but read the post about the network creating jobs (and yes granted some will be seasonal).

    Somebody else claimed the greenway would be used by 24/7/365 types - I disagree.

    westtip wrote: »

    Face facts the Western Rail corridor will not generate jobs and will not be used, so why not put the route to a better use now.

    Of course a railway will not create jobs, the same as a new bus route in my area won't create jobs. At least not the way Irish Rail operate. But a well priced package rail / sail / B+B from London or Dublin to Westport then 40K walking trails to Achill - that might create jobs.


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    #3006
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    anything that brings in tourists will bring in money and that will bring in jobs (5000 a bit OTT I agree :-)


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    #3007
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    rainbowdash wrote: »

    Of course a railway will not create jobs, the same as a new bus route in my area won't create jobs. At least not the way Irish Rail operate. But a well priced package rail / sail / B+B from London or Dublin to Westport then 40K walking trails to Achill - that might create jobs.

    Indeed but they won't be coming to the west of Ireland to experience the rail experience of a lifetime from Claremorris to Athenry. They might fly into Knock - rent a bike in Charlestown and spend a few days on a network of greenways which happen to be very near to Knock airport.


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    #3008
    sligotrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭sligotrain


    westtip wrote: »

    Indeed but they won't be coming to the west of Ireland to experience the rail experience of a lifetime from Claremorris to Athenry. They might fly into Knock - rent a bike in Charlestown and spend a few days on a network of greenways which happen to be very near to Knock airport.

    Surely the time has come to either rename this thread as "What if there was a cycle track in Mayo" or spin off cycle track speculation into a seperate thread?

    It is ridiculous that the potential for railway services on a railway line cannot be discussed here but a one man fantasy about ripping up a railway line to use as a cycle track with ridiculous levels of hyperbole about it can.


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    #3009
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    it is less of a fantasy than dreaming of re-opening it, after the abject failure of the southern section, which also was the section with the most potential....and don't get me started on the "Cork to Derry" delusions!


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    #3010
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    corktina wrote: »
    it is less of a fantasy than dreaming of re-opening it, after the abject failure of the southern section, which also was the section with the most potential....and don't get me started on the "Cork to Derry" delusions!

    I actually think they reopened the wrong section. I think that reopening Tuam to Athenry would have been more useful as it could form the basis of a commuter rail service to Galway.


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    #3011
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I actually think they reopened the wrong section. I think that reopening Tuam to Athenry would have been more useful as it could form the basis of a commuter rail service to Galway.

    you could well be right... theres very little between Ennis and Athenry, even Gort is only a Village.


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    #3012
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,075 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    sligotrain wrote: »
    Surely the time has come to either rename this thread as "What if there was a cycle track in Mayo" or spin off cycle track speculation into a seperate thread?

    It is ridiculous that the potential for railway services on a railway line cannot be discussed here but a one man fantasy about ripping up a railway line to use as a cycle track with ridiculous levels of hyperbole about it can.

    May I remind you of this.
    On the 3rd Anniversary of this thread, may I remind you to grow up and stop trying to make the discussion personal. If you have any info regarding the cycle path campaign, then spit it out. Or rather back up your assertion about it being a one man anti railway campaign. As they say in the real world, piss or get off the pot. Over to you. Lets hear it.

    You ignored it. Have another go because in my opinion you are starting to sound like a troll offering up some dangerous bait. How many decent posters have got the boot from here by reacting to such nonsense.


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    #3013
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I actually think they reopened the wrong section. I think that reopening Tuam to Athenry would have been more useful as it could form the basis of a commuter rail service to Galway.

    Extract from the McCann Report May 2005 this report was the blueprint that advocated strategy re the Western Rail corridor:
    Section 1
    Athenry to Ennis – 36 miles in length: total capital cost of €74.7m (€2.1m per mile)


    This section would appear to be one of the more viable as things stand and I am recommending that this section be re-opened in the short-term.

    The main argument I see in favour of restoring this section is that it would create a rail link between the four largest cities outside Dublin; Galway, Limerick, Waterford and Cork and thus implement a major objective of the National Spatial Strategy, that of creating greater linkages between these four cities.


    West on Track fully signed up to the McCann report and supported its strategy of four phases. Phase one (ennis Athenry) was always seen as the shoe in for success. It failed so what next open another section and see that fail?

    By the ways lets remind ourselves of what McCann said of the Claremorris Collooney section - West On Track don't dust this one down and quote it too much:
    Section 5
    Claremorris to Collooney: 46.25 miles; capital cost of €197.4m at an average cost of €4.3m per mile


    It is clear that this section would be extremely expensive to restore. It accounts for 54% of the restoration costs of the entire line. Expenditure of this order would be very difficult to justify and I have to say that the case for its restoration, as things stand, is weak except on the grounds of balanced regional development.

    This section is characterised by low population densities with few towns of reasonable size.

    The one strategic argument in its favour is that it would connect by rail the Sligo gateway with the other gateways and hubs on the western and southern seaboards. How Sligo develops, in terms of population, employment and economic activity, will be of relevance to any future decisions on this section. Accordingly, the case for restoring this section could change over time and I am making two specific recommendations here.

    Firstly, the section should be preserved in its entirety by clearing, fencing, etc and Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo County Councils should make the necessary arrangements as soon as possible.

    Secondly, the viability of restoring this section of line should be reviewed in three years to see whether the objective conditions for line restoration have changed.

    Re the last sentence I think we can all agree that since 2005, 7 years later objecitve conditions have clearly changed somewhat.


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    #3014
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    May I remind you of this.



    You ignored it. Have another go because in my opinion you are starting to sound like a troll offering up some dangerous bait. How many decent posters have got the boot from here by reacting to such nonsense.

    It's a disgrace, Joe, breaking the consensus. How will we get friendly journalists and politicians on board with The Project when not everyone left on the thread is of exactly the same opinion?


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    #3015
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    westtip wrote: »
    Phase one (ennis Athenry) was always seen as the shoe in for success. It failed so what next open another section and see that fail?

    I am not suggesting any expansion of the WRC. My observation was that they arguably went for the wrong option (possibly for political reasons).

    Tuam to Athenry was the cheapest in absolute cost terms and would have provided a platform for commuter services in the Galway region.

    As you may recall, Limerick to Ennis managed perfectly well without the extension to Athenry in terms of attracting passengers by providing a frequent commuter link to Limerick. Tuam could have done the same, except in a Galway context, especially if Oranmore was opened.


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    #3016
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Tuam to Athenry is never likely to reopen.


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    #3017
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,075 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I am not suggesting any expansion of the WRC. My observation was that they arguably went for the wrong option (possibly for political reasons).

    Tuam to Athenry was the cheapest in absolute cost terms and would have provided a platform for commuter services in the Galway region.

    As you may recall, Limerick to Ennis managed perfectly well without the extension to Athenry in terms of attracting passengers by providing a frequent commuter link to Limerick. Tuam could have done the same, except in a Galway context, especially if Oranmore was opened.

    I agree. The future for rail reopenings was always Commuter based. But the entire WRC saga was never about success. It was merely about social justice and seriously misguided social justice at that.


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    #3018
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Hungerford wrote: »
    I am not suggesting any expansion of the WRC. My observation was that they arguably went for the wrong option (possibly for political reasons).

    Tuam to Athenry was the cheapest in absolute cost terms and would have provided a platform for commuter services in the Galway region.

    As you may recall, Limerick to Ennis managed perfectly well without the extension to Athenry in terms of attracting passengers by providing a frequent commuter link to Limerick. Tuam could have done the same, except in a Galway context, especially if Oranmore was opened.

    Fair comment in fact the Claremorris contingent of WOT would probably have preferred Tuam first then Claremorris because the campaign was always very much about making Claremorris the Clapham Junction of the west of ireland - but as just posted above, by another poster, Tuam Athenry is now never likely to happen - so the rest north of Tuam is also history. The recent Swinford declaration has made it clear what the people prefer; the original "phase four" (LOL) will never ever happen.


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    #3019
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    sligotrain wrote: »
    but a one man fantasy about ripping up a railway line to use as a cycle track .

    2,400 friends on Facebook.

    1,300 people in Swinford support the idea.

    Numerous posters on this thread support the idea.

    Numerous letters in the national press have supported the idea of greenways nationally.

    Hotels and businesses all along the route have supported the idea

    Oh and some bloke called Enda kenny emailed us last year to say he likes the idea

    check out the quotes page on www.sligomayogreenway.com

    One man ..... and his band....of thousands thinking along the same lines.

    Oh and i forgot to mention the Tuam Greenway project - check out their support on facebook...

    La di da.:D


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    #3020
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    Hungerford wrote: »

    Tuam to Athenry was the cheapest in absolute cost terms and would have provided a platform for commuter services in the Galway region.

    Then why didn't WoT ask for it to be phase one?


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    #3021
    MayoForSam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭MayoForSam


    Tuam-Galway as a rail commuter link would never have worked - it would not have been a direct service (probably have to change in Athenry), most people work in the industrial estates (a long way from the train station) and there's already a decent and frequent bus service with various pickup points to suit people and that services the Galway industrial estates (and even that's improved since the Claregalway bus lanes were put in).

    I'm from Swinford originally, the town is crying out for some type of development to bring visitors into the town, a relatively low investment to create a greenway along the decrepit railway line is the only thing that makes any sense.


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    #3022
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Tuam-Athenry-Galway would have caused platform occupancy issues and given the location of the overbridge east of the station there's nowhere to notch in a bay. Add the single track section west of Athenry and only two usable platforms in Ceannt and that's the ball game.


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    #3023
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    For the First time on Record a Government Minister says it out loud.

    Today's Irish Times Page 8 interview of Leo Varadkar by Frank McDonald:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1217/1224327924838.html

    This is the one sentence that says it all:
    Asked about the Western Rail Corridor, he said it was not even going to be extended to Tuam

    Page 8 Irish Times today.

    Well there you go folks I don't think the issue of Claremorris Collooney being a greenway is such a big issue now do you....


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    #3024
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    See following link
    http://www.dublincycling.ie/node/822

    Possibility of getting EU money for Greenways.

    See also
    http://www.ecf.com/projects/eurovelo-2/


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    #3025
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    "new Ennis-Athenry link was not losing as much as other rail services such as Limerick Junction-Waterford and Manulla Junction-Ballina and these were being looked at by “number-crunchers” "


    writing on the wall... ?


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    #3026
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    corktina wrote: »
    "new Ennis-Athenry link was not losing as much as other rail services such as Limerick Junction-Waterford and Manulla Junction-Ballina and these were being looked at by “number-crunchers”

    How can the losses on Manulla Junction to Ballina be that severe? The line has CTC throughout and Ballina has become a Mecca for what remains of IE's freight division.


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    #3027
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Hungerford wrote: »
    How can the losses on Manulla Junction to Ballina be that severe? The line has CTC throughout and Ballina has become a Mecca for what remains of IE's freight division.

    i thought that too. Diversionary tactics?


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    #3028
    LivelineDipso
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LivelineDipso


    corktina wrote: »
    "new Ennis-Athenry link was not losing as much as other rail services such as Limerick Junction-Waterford and Manulla Junction-Ballina and these were being looked at by “number-crunchers” "


    writing on the wall... ?


    How much money does closing a rail line compare to the salary of one of the hundreds of IE managers and executives?


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    #3029
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    hmm...theres no point downsizing the network if the whole company isn'y
    going to be similarly trimmed I agree.


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    #3030
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Hungerford wrote: »
    How can the losses on Manulla Junction to Ballina be that severe? The line has CTC throughout and Ballina has become a Mecca for what remains of IE's freight division.
    Because IE insist on making the line pay for itself as passenger only, presumably because they don't have long term contracts with the forwarders. The reactivation of the pocket wagons only points up that DFDS did previously suspend the service. Also, the fact that freight is currently profitable on an operating basis may not provide for the cost of heavy overhauls and/or replacement of the locomotives being flogged around the network - clearly the government will have zero interest in capital for freight assets.


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    #3031
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    what_traffic wrote: »
    See following link
    http://www.dublincycling.ie/node/822

    Possibility of getting EU money for Greenways.

    See also
    http://www.ecf.com/projects/eurovelo-2/

    email sent to Jim higgins thanks for posting this one up. Varadkar has set the cat amongst the proverbials with his interview I see. No doubt the Western Media will be on his back soon...:D


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