Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

1…264265267269270…334

Comments

  • #7982
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,702 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    So are antibiotics designed to to attack the infected cells in the host then?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #7983
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    J C wrote: »
    NS is capable of getting rid of various characteristics ... what it's not able to do, is to produce the genetic information for new characteristics ... so birds can lose the ability to fly and bacteria can lose the abilty to metabolise antibiotics.

    Wait - I thought you said God gave the Kiwi wings because it looked good? Now that you realise the absurdity of your response, you're trying to change it. The Kiwi is the result of natural selection in action.

    So - Will you now accept that the Kiwi is a flightless bird, because it evolved to become that way?


  • #7984
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Enjoy ... this is as real as it gets!!!



  • #7985
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,702 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    30 seconds in and they're making a lot of references to 'mistakes' with regards to evolution. Sounds like the same misinformation you've been peddling on-thread.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #7986
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    30 seconds in and they're making a lot of references to 'mistakes' with regards to evolution. Sounds like the same misinformation you've been peddling on-thread.
    ... sounds more like the stuff that you guys have been believing in has 'gone up in smoke'!!!



  • Advertisement
  • #7987
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    koth wrote: »
    So are antibiotics designed to to attack the infected cells in the host then?

    Well, no. Antibiotics only really affect cells, but they aren't at all picky. If a cell possesses the kind of chemical pathway that an antibiotic can f*ck up, then the antibiotic will f*ck it right up. The most commonly used ones are relatively harmless to humans, but mess up bacterial or fungal cells. There are plenty more that are really dangerous to human cells. Some of those are used in cancer treatment. Some require taking other medicine to counteract the nasty side effects. Antibiotics are essentially poisons that are less effective against some creatures.

    There's virtually nothing available to medicine that's effective against viral infections, you have only your own body to thank for getting rid of those with some cleverly evolved defences; swelling makes movement in that area difficult, infected areas often do mass cell suicides in a scorched earth kind of defence (that's where the white colouration and most of the pain in a sore throat comes from. Your body does not f*ck about with infection), white blood cells create swarms of antigens that disable "sick" cells by sticking to the new proteins showing up in the cell membrane and disabling them or tagging them for suicide, or immobilising bacteria or viruses in a sort of sticky mass of themselves, leaving them easy prey for the white cells that eat and dissolve foreign bodies.

    All your body's own work. It is able to recognise things that shouldn't be there and come up with a highly effective defence. It evolves to adapt to new infections. Which creates a selective pressure for bacteria and viruses different enough to slip past the new defences. Which in turn creates selective pressure on the body. A never-ending arms race of sorts. There's no malice, just cause and effect.

    That terrifies people like J C.


  • #7988
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Also, lol @ J C's latest attempts.


  • #7989
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    J C wrote: »
    Enjoy ... this is as real as it gets!!!


    Top comment on that video:
    And why are you using a video from the 70's to combat evolution? You don't think this is dated?

    Also, did you happen to notice that ratings are disabled and comments need to be approved? It's always the same with you guys. Afraid.


  • #7990
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Sarky wrote: »
    Antibiotics do buggerall to viruses. They're just bits of DNA or RNA in a protein shell. They're mostly not affected by antibiotics because they don't metabolise, they're not even alive in most senses of the word. Until they get into a cell, whereupon they hijack a cell's machinery to replicate themselves in a variety of interesting ways.

    Generally they insert their own DNA into the host's chromosome (it's quite easy to see that parts of the human genome contain bits and pieces that are obviously viral in nature) and force that region to be translated over and over again, producing protein shells and replicated viral DNA/RNA to put inside them.

    The process is error prone like everything else (More so in the case of RNA viruses, as their genomes don't have the double helix structure to provide extra stability), and often a virus will copy too much or too little, and the new viruses can contain bits and pieces of host DNA/RNA. Their lack of repair enzymes allows for plenty of mutation and variability as errors go uncorrected, especially given the number of viruses even one host cell can produce before it dies from exhaustion or bursts open after producing too many viruses or any number of other factors. They're orders of magnitude above even bacteria for replication numbers. Evolution is extremely obvious in viruses for these reasons. Well, viruses themselves are extremely hard to see, being only a few nanometres in length, but we can measure their effects on cells and we can easily examine their genomes.

    This is mostly 1st or 2nd year undergrad biology stuff, and the fact that J C doesn't seem to know about the intricacies of basic microbiology like this either means that his "conventional scientific qualification" has nothing to do with the topics covered here (rendering it useless for trying to add weight to his claims), or that he has no qualification at all. Given his lack of honesty about pretty much everything else, I'd suspect the latter, but he could always put such speculation to rest by growing a pair and telling us.
    Sarky wrote: »
    Well, no. Antibiotics only really affect cells, but they aren't at all picky. If a cell possesses the kind of chemical pathway that an antibiotic can f*ck up, then the antibiotic will f*ck it right up. The most commonly used ones are relatively harmless to humans, but mess up bacterial or fungal cells. There are plenty more that are really dangerous to human cells. Some of those are used in cancer treatment. Some require taking other medicine to counteract the nasty side effects. Antibiotics are essentially poisons that are less effective against some creatures.

    There's virtually nothing available to medicine that's effective against viral infections, you have only your own body to thank for getting rid of those with some cleverly evolved defences; swelling makes movement in that area difficult, infected areas often do mass cell suicides in a scorched earth kind of defence (that's where the white colouration and most of the pain in a sore throat comes from. Your body does not f*ck about with infection), white blood cells create swarms of antigens that disable "sick" cells by sticking to the new proteins showing up in the cell membrane and disabling them or tagging them for suicide, or immobilising bacteria or viruses in a sort of sticky mass of themselves, leaving them easy prey for the white cells that eat and dissolve foreign bodies.

    All your body's own work. It is able to recognise things that shouldn't be there and come up with a highly effective defence. It evolves to adapt to new infections. Which creates a selective pressure for bacteria and viruses different enough to slip past the new defences. Which in turn creates selective pressure on the body. A never-ending arms race of sorts. There's no malice, just cause and effect.

    That terrifies people like J C.


    /takes hat off

    Most interesting post's I've read in a while.


  • #7991
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    J C wrote: »
    Enjoy ... this is as real as it gets!!!


    So you're just going to ignore our points and link to moronic videos then?


  • Advertisement
  • #7992
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    joseph brand wrote: »
    /takes hat off
    Most interesting post's I've read in a while.
    Take shoes off.


  • #7993
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,702 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    joseph brand wrote: »
    /takes hat off

    Most interesting post's I've read in a while.
    +1

    That's the main reason I still read this thread. When actual science makes an appearance on this thread, it's usually a fascinating read.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #7994
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    dead one wrote: »
    Take shoes off.

    You mean in a "F*ck you George W. Bush" kind of way, or a "I have no idea what I'm doing" kind of way?

    Neither option is particularly good.


  • #7995
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by Sarky
    Antibiotics do buggerall to viruses. They're just bits of DNA or RNA in a protein shell. They're mostly not affected by antibiotics because they don't metabolise, they're not even alive in most senses of the word. Until they get into a cell, whereupon they hijack a cell's machinery to replicate themselves in a variety of interesting ways.
    We were talking about the development of AB resistance in bacteria ... as the information losing and circular 'evolution' phenomenon that it is.

    Generally they insert their own DNA into the host's chromosome (it's quite easy to see that parts of the human genome contain bits and pieces that are obviously viral in nature) and force that region to be translated over and over again, producing protein shells and replicated viral DNA/RNA to put inside them.
    That's how they work allright.

    The process is error prone like everything else (More so in the case of RNA viruses, as their genomes don't have the double helix structure to provide extra stability), and often a virus will copy too much or too little, and the new viruses can contain bits and pieces of host DNA/RNA. Their lack of repair enzymes allows for plenty of mutation and variability as errors go uncorrected, especially given the number of viruses even one host cell can produce before it dies from exhaustion or bursts open after producing too many viruses or any number of other factors. They're orders of magnitude above even bacteria for replication numbers. Evolution is extremely obvious in viruses for these reasons. Well, viruses themselves are extremely hard to see, being only a few nanometres in length, but we can measure their effects on cells and we can easily examine their genomes.
    .... and after all this supposedly rapid 'evolution' they remain parasitic obligates a few nanometres long ... and still requiring host cells for their reproduction ... not much sign of anything going rapidly anywhere there ... except round in circles

    This is mostly 1st or 2nd year undergrad biology stuff, and the fact that J C doesn't seem to know about the intricacies of basic microbiology like this either means that his "conventional scientific qualification" has nothing to do with the topics covered here (rendering it useless for trying to add weight to his claims), or that he has no qualification at all. Given his lack of honesty about pretty much everything else, I'd suspect the latter, but he could always put such speculation to rest by growing a pair and telling us.
    What are you talking about? What do I supposedly not know?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sarky
    Well, no. Antibiotics only really affect cells, but they aren't at all picky. If a cell possesses the kind of chemical pathway that an antibiotic can f*ck up, then the antibiotic will f*ck it right up. The most commonly used ones are relatively harmless to humans, but mess up bacterial or fungal cells. There are plenty more that are really dangerous to human cells. Some of those are used in cancer treatment. Some require taking other medicine to counteract the nasty side effects. Antibiotics are essentially poisons that are less effective against some creatures.
    ... and your point is???

    There's virtually nothing available to medicine that's effective against viral infections, you have only your own body to thank for getting rid of those with some cleverly evolved defences; swelling makes movement in that area difficult, infected areas often do mass cell suicides in a scorched earth kind of defence (that's where the white colouration and most of the pain in a sore throat comes from. Your body does not f*ck about with infection), white blood cells create swarms of antigens that disable "sick" cells by sticking to the new proteins showing up in the cell membrane and disabling them or tagging them for suicide, or immobilising bacteria or viruses in a sort of sticky mass of themselves, leaving them easy prey for the white cells that eat and dissolve foreign bodies.
    ... and all of this controlled by gargantuan quantities of CFSI ... where just one 'wrong move' could kill you.

    All your body's own work. It is able to recognise things that shouldn't be there and come up with a highly effective defence. It evolves to adapt to new infections. Which creates a selective pressure for bacteria and viruses different enough to slip past the new defences. Which in turn creates selective pressure on the body. A never-ending arms race of sorts. There's no malice, just cause and effect.
    An automatic system that's intelligently designed ... to fight moving and ever changing targets ... that would leave the 'Star Wars' defense systems 'at the starting blocks '... and all of it operating at microscopic levels of resolution.

    That terrifies people like J C.
    I find it an awe inspiring proof of our wonderful God ... no fear ... just pure love.

    joseph brand wrote: »
    /takes hat off.
    ... to cover the nakedness of Evolution ... I suppose!!!!:):D:eek:


  • #7996
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    J C wrote: »
    ... to cover the nakedness of Evolution ... I suppose!!!!:):D:eek:

    You're writing words, but in my head I'm just reading them as a loud, irritating humming noise.


  • #7997
    sephir0th
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭sephir0th


    J.C your comments are like a virus within that interesting information - except your comments never, ever evolve.


  • #7998
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    You're writing words, but in my head I'm just reading them as a loud, irritating humming noise.
    ... that's just your denial of CFSI kicking in.:)


  • #7999
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    sephir0th wrote: »
    J.C your comments are like a virus within that interesting information - except your comments never, ever evolve.
    ... the truth doesn't need to evolve.


  • #8000
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    J C wrote: »
    ... that's just your denial of CFSI kicking in.:)

    My denial of bullshit psuedoscience? Yeah, sounds about right.
    J C wrote: »
    ... the truth doesn't need to evolve.

    No, it doesn't. It just needs people to accept it. You should try that sometime.


  • #8001
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    My denial of bullshit psuedoscience?
    ... so are you now denying Evolution????;)



  • Advertisement
  • #8002
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    sephir0th wrote: »
    your comments never, ever evolve.
    I've made the point every now and then on this and the Other Thread(*), and I'm with koth above: I've learned a lot about evolutionary biology via great posts like Sarky's two recent ones as well as hundreds of others by other first-rate posters -- a sincere thanks to everybody who's contributed. JC's posts, on the other hand, haven't changed in the slightest. What I believe is his/her first one was seven years and four days ago, here, and other than the evolution of the trivially discreditable IFSC nonsense, I don't see any evidence of JC having learned a thing.

    That's a great pity.
    J C wrote: »
    ... the truth doesn't need to evolve.
    Religious learning never evolves -- how many centuries has it been since religion produced anything worthwhile? -- but science certainly does as real researchers make real advances.

    (*) shocked to see it was closed down last November and the follow-on thread never caught on.


  • #8003
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    J C wrote: »
    ... so are you now denying Evolution????;)

    Would you stop with that childish nonsense. For someone who claims to be a Christian (which you clearly aren't), you're quick to continuously misrepresent comments to try and have a cheap pop at people.

    How about trying to have an honest discussion for once, and stop being obtuse?


  • #8004
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    J C wrote: »
    ... so are you now denying Evolution????;)


    Oh I see what they did there. They took the title of Dawkin's book and changed the gord god to evolution. That's cute :)


  • #8005
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Oh I see what they did there. They took the title of Dawkin's book and changed the gord god to evolution. That's cute :)
    So Creationists do change ... after all!!!!:)


  • #8006
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Would you stop with that childish nonsense. For someone who claims to be a Christian (which you clearly aren't), you're quick to continuously misrepresent comments to try and have a cheap pop at people.

    How about trying to have an honest discussion for once, and stop being obtuse?
    I wasn't misrepresenting ... I was presenting how your comments sound from your perspective!!!!:)

    Ye are the guys with the 'cheap shots' ... and the foul language descriptions.


  • #8007
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    J C wrote: »
    ... the truth doesn't need to evolve.

    So is the Bible completely accurate, and are all of it's teachings still true? In particular - Leviticus 25:44-46 (Slavery) and Exodus 21:7-11 (Child slavery).


  • #8008
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    J C wrote: »
    I wasn't misrepresenting ... I was presenting how your comments sound from your perspective!!!!:)

    No, you weren't. Stop being deceitful. For someone who claims to be Christian, you're not a very honest or moral person.


  • #8009
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    I've made the point every now and then on this and the Other Thread(*), and I'm with koth above: I've learned a lot about evolutionary biology via great posts like Sarky's two recent ones as well as hundreds of others by other first-rate posters -- a sincere thanks to everybody who's contributed. JC's posts, on the other hand, haven't changed in the slightest. What I believe is his/her first one was seven years and four days ago, here, and other than the evolution of the trivially discreditable IFSC nonsense, I don't see any evidence of JC having learned a thing.
    ... we're growing old together, Robin.:)
    robindch wrote: »
    That's a great pity.Religious learning never evolves -- how many centuries has it been since religion produced anything worthwhile? -- but science certainly does as real researchers make real advances.
    Both religion and science (and indeed Atheism) have produced many wonderful things ... and many horrific ones as well.
    They're all part of the amazing tapestry that is Human history.

    Ye guys accuse me of being 'uni-dimensional' in my belief in Creation ... but here's the thing ... I freely recognise the achievements of both Creationists and Evolutionists ... it is ye guys who are the real 'stick in the muds' seeing no good in Creationists ... and no problem with Evolution.
    You deny that it is possible to scientifically evaluate the Creation theory while accepting that it is possible to scientifically evaluate the Abiogenesis-Evolution theory. I accept that we can evaluate both origins ideas ... and this shows you guys to be the real 'uni-dimensional' ones, wedded to your worldiew, come what may ... while I was once an Evolutionist ... and now I'm a Creationist ... because that is where the evidence has lead me.


  • #8010
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    J C wrote: »
    So Creationists do change ... after all!!!!:)

    Could nearly say they evolve.


  • Advertisement
  • #8011
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    dlofnep wrote: »
    No, you weren't. Stop being deceitful. For someone who claims to be Christian, you're not a very honest or moral person.
    A moralising Atheist ... just like your Theist brethern ... but with different sins!!!:)


    ... and it is a valid ... and honest question to ask anybody shouting about 'pseudo-science' ... if they are talking about the greatest pseudo-science of them all ... M2M Evolution!!!:)


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement