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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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  • Options
    #5252
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Sure why would anyone have a problem with that? Road tax going to - shock - roads, etc? But I'm sure even YOU will agree that this is not the case - no matter how you dress it up.

    There's no such thing here as road tax.


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    #5253
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    And - as has pointed to to you ad nauseum - this tax has been introduced because of the bailing out of failed business entities who owe each other a private debt. This has fcuk all to do with equity or the rest of Europe.

    It's to do with an ongoing shortfall in tax revenues - bank bailout or no bank bailout. That the rest of the world generally see the benefits of property taxes is a pretty clear indication that it has some merit.


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    #5254
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Buford Tannen wrote: »
    So what is you're vested intrest in this charge?A quick look through you're history shows that you are on her her every day morning,noon and night.

    Gosh - another conspiracy! Enda's agents are everywhere!

    Have you considered the possibility that some of us just see the need to sort out the revenue income gap, and the logic of a property tax as part of a sustainable new model?


  • Options
    #5255
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    dvpower wrote: »
    I've had a look online and I don't know what u-turn on the household charge issue you're referring to.
    Can you share please?

    When can I expect the household charge to be formally abandoned?

    A number of councils around the country have passed motions calling on the goverment to abolish the household tax, more recently in tramore, even a fine gael counciler had the following to say.
    Cllr Anne Marie Power said she is also against the charge, describing it as “rushed and ill conceived”. She said she didn’t believe the public would accept it as it is unfair and added, “The promise of money going into the community is nonsense, it will go to the proverbial black hole to pay the bond holders and the ministers

    http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/mhgbidsnmh/


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    #5256
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    alastair wrote: »
    Gosh - another conspiracy! Enda's agents are everywhere!

    Have you considered the possibility that some of us just see the need to sort out the revenue income gap, and the logic of a property tax as part of a sustainable new model?

    The no posters do have a habit of checking the history behind yes posters. Maybe paranoia, I do not know.


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    #5257
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gurramok wrote: »
    The no posters do have a habit of checking the history behind yes posters. Maybe paranoia, I do not know.
    Hoping to find a 'I was at the Ard Fheis and Enda said to me...' anecdote. :)


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    #5258
    greenpilot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Hi Folks,

    Here is some interesting reading for those of you with the spinetostand up to this charge. For those of you who have nothing better to do except spend all your waking hours on this thread supporting this tax....dont bother..... go buy a paper and check out the small ads....we in the real world, ie Rural Ireland, wont be paying...or indeed, paying attention!...85% OF PEOPLE LEFT TO PAY.....Stand your ground people.
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/household-charge/


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    #5259
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    greenpilot wrote: »
    Hi Folks,

    Here is some interesting reading for those of you with the spinetostand up to this charge. For those of you who have nothing better to do except spend all your waking hours on this thread supporting this tax....dont bother..... go buy a paper and check out the small ads....we in the real world, ie Rural Ireland, wont be paying...or indeed, paying attention!...85% OF PEOPLE LEFT TO PAY.....Stand your ground people.
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/household-charge/

    Funny how the interviewer kept showing repeated views of the not paying interviewees. A bit biased there.


  • Options
    #5260
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    gurramok wrote: »
    Funny how the interviewer kept showing repeated views of the not paying interviewees.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Maybe paranoia, I do not know.

    lol.


  • Options
    #5261
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    mikom wrote: »
    lol.

    Nope, real stuff.


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    #5262
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    None of this is required. They fine a selection of people - €2500 plus outstanding tax, plus interest, plus late payment fees, plus costs.
    Others fall into line.

    And lets just say for arguments sake......

    This batch of 'selected people' who've all stood together thus far, refused to register, refused to pay.

    Ok, so they find themselves in court, judge fines them, and they refuse to pay?

    What then for the court?

    Herd them up like the Nazis did with the Jews, and imprison them?


    Likewise with the next batch of non conformers, and the batch after that, and the batch after that?

    I don't think you blue shirts are in the real world, you really haven't grasped the publics determination on this one at all, at all!


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    #5263
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ghandee wrote: »
    And lets just say for arguments sake......

    This batch of 'selected people' who've all stood together thus far, refused to register, refused to pay.

    Ok, so they find themselves in court, judge fines them, and they refuse to pay?

    What then for the court?

    Herd them up like the Nazis did with the Jews, and imprison them?


    Likewise with the next batch of non conformers, and the batch after that, and the batch after that?

    I don't think you blue shirts are in the real world, you really haven't grasped the publics determination on this one at all, at all!
    Yes. It'll be just like the Nazis and the Jews all over again.:rolleyes:

    Is there something wrong with you?


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    #5264
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    gurramok wrote: »
    Funny how the interviewer kept showing repeated views of the not paying interviewees. A bit biased there.

    I wouldn't consider it that funny tbh.

    I've yet to speak to anyone that's said they're paying it either.

    There is 85% non compliance after all......:cool:


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    #5265
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Ghandee wrote: »
    And lets just say for arguments sake......

    This batch of 'selected people' who've all stood together thus far, refused to register, refused to pay.

    Ok, so they find themselves in court, judge fines them, and they refuse to pay?

    What then for the court?

    Herd them up like the Nazis did with the Jews, and imprison them?


    Yep, gonna get them to don striped PJ's with a five pointed star on it to represent Endas five point plan.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Nope, real stuff.

    The current figures disagree.
    14 days to go.


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    #5266
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    And - as has pointed to to you ad nauseum - this tax has been introduced because of the bailing out of failed business entities who owe each other a private debt. This has fcuk all to do with equity or the rest of Europe.

    Nothing to do with the budget deficit then?


  • Options
    #5267
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    Yes. It'll be just like the Nazis and the Jews all over again.:rolleyes:

    Is there something wrong with you?

    Can you just answer the basic question?

    What if the select few that get fined refuse to pay said fine?

    Then the next batch in front of the court, the batch after that, and the batch after that?


    None pay the fine imposed on them by the court?

    Then what?


    Answer the question dv, stop side stepping.


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    #5268
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    dvpower wrote: »
    Yes. It'll be just like the Nazis and the Jews all over again.:rolleyes:

    Is there something wrong with you?


    So then.....have you gone off and googled Ministers Quinn and Hogan and their embarrasing climb downs and u-turns??



    Or are you purposely ignoring the issue of people power,public anger and the subsiquesnt FG/Labour climb downs and u-turns so far??

    Or are you just an Enda fan whos in complete denial??


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    #5269
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    mikom wrote: »
    The current figures disagree.
    14 days to go.

    So far. Jumping the gun there Mr Comedian.


  • Options
    #5270
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    gurramok wrote: »
    So far. Jumping the gun there Mr Comedian.

    You think more than half a million people will pay in fourteen days.....
    (which will still only be 50%<)


    Lol

    I'm gonna open a beer.........


  • Options
    #5271
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Ghandee wrote: »
    You think more than half a million people will pay in fourteen days.....
    (which will still only be 50%<)


    Lol

    I'm gonna open a beer.........

    Enjoy the beer.

    If they don't, do you prefer a hike in income tax?


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    #5272
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    gurramok wrote: »
    Enjoy the beer.

    If they don't, do you prefer a hike in income tax?

    Its coming from peoples income anyway, to pay the new tax.


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    #5273
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    gurramok wrote: »
    Enjoy the beer.

    I will thanks, i'm drinking Tyskie, great Polish beer (5.6%) I highly recommend it....
    gurramok wrote: »
    If they don't, do you prefer a hike in income tax?



    income tax will target all people who use all public services, even the ones in council houses who earn a wage, and people in rented accommodation.

    I still don't believe this money will go to public services btw, but you asked me a question and I've answered.


  • Options
    #5274
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Can you just answer the basic question?

    What if the select few that get fined refuse to pay said fine?

    Then the next batch in front of the court, the batch after that, and the batch after that?


    None pay the fine imposed on them by the court?

    Then what?


    Answer the question dv, stop side stepping.

    The process of prosecuting and fining tax defaulters would be pretty much the same as for any other tax. No need for anything dramatic. If you honestly believe that there will be a mass campaign of people opting to go off to the clinker rather than pay their taxes, then you'd be mistaken.


  • Options
    #5275
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Ghandee wrote: »
    income tax will target all people who use all public services, even the ones in council houses who earn a wage, and people in rented accommodation.

    I still don't believe this money will go to public services btw, but you asked me a question and I've answered.

    Increasing income taxes would undermine any chance of a recovery on the jobs market, and shift money into the black economy. A property tax has the benefit of targeting those with equity, and of offering limited scope for evasion. The revenues would go into the same pot that provides for loan repayments, bank bailouts, and the usual gamut of public services - its just another tax.


  • Options
    #5276
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Can you just answer the basic question?

    What if the select few that get fined refuse to pay said fine?

    Then the next batch in front of the court, the batch after that, and the batch after that?


    None pay the fine imposed on them by the court?

    Then what?


    Answer the question dv, stop side stepping.
    I don't envisage widespread hardcore resistance so I can only speculate.

    If there did happen to be this type of scenario and the courts were in danger of being clogged up, I think the Government might consider legislation to pass collection of this to the Revenue Commissioners, with the powers that the Revenue have. This could open the possibility of using attachment orders, where the money would simply be taken out of your bank account or taken directly from your salary. The Revenue currently have the power to make an attachment order on the authorisation of a Principal Officer in the Collector General's office, without any court order. Its quite an inexpensive process.

    There would be plenty of options - this is just one.


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    #5277
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    alastair wrote: »
    Increasing income taxes would undermine any chance of a recovery on the jobs market, and shift money into the black economy. A property tax has the benefit of targeting those with equity, and of offering limited scope for evasion. The revenues would go into the same pot that provides for loan repayments, bank bailouts, and the usual gamut of public services - its just another tax.

    What if the equity targeted is negative equity?

    Will the govt start to send those people money, or still target them in an effort to pay up?


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    #5278
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dvpower wrote: »
    I don't envisage widespread hardcore resistance so I can only speculate.

    If there did happen to be this type of scenario and the courts were in danger of being clogged up, I think the Government might consider legislation to pass collection of this to the Revenue Commissioners, with the powers that the Revenue have. This could open the possibility of using attachment orders, where the money would simply be taken out of your bank account or taken directly from your salary. The Revenue currently have the power to make an attachment order on the authorisation of a Principal Officer in the Collector General's office, without any court order. Its quite an inexpensive process.

    There would be plenty of options - this is just one.


    Well......

    If they go down that route, i'm untouchable!


  • Options
    #5279
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Its coming from peoples income anyway, to pay the new tax.

    Eh, how? Though your main argument was that it was a flat charge?
    Ghandee wrote: »
    I will thanks, i'm drinking Tyskie, great Polish beer (5.6%) I highly recommend it....

    Indeed, i want you typing correctly after a few later :D:)
    Ghandee wrote: »
    income tax will target all people who use all public services, even the ones in council houses who earn a wage, and people in rented accommodation.

    I still don't believe this money will go to public services btw, but you asked me a question and I've answered.

    Ok, I see your position. You distrust their declaration that the money will go to council services.


  • Options
    #5280
    zumi
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭zumi


    dvpower wrote: »
    I don't envisage widespread hardcore resistance so I can only speculate.

    If there did happen to be this type of scenario and the courts were in danger of being clogged up, I think the Government might consider legislation to pass collection of this to the Revenue Commissioners, with the powers that the Revenue have. This could open the possibility of using attachment orders, where the money would simply be taken out of your bank account or taken directly from your salary. The Revenue currently have the power to make an attachment order on the authorisation of a Principal Officer in the Collector General's office, without any court order. Its quite an inexpensive process.

    There would be plenty of options - this is just one.

    They can pass all the legislation and laws they like, I will never pay house tax. They can put all the attachment orders they like and send every sherriff in the country. I'll gladly go to jail, and there will be plenty more like me. I pay plenty of tax as it is and the last thing the Government needs is more money to waste.


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    #5281
    The_Thing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    mikom wrote: »
    Yep, gonna get them to don striped PJ's with a five pointed star on it to represent Endas five point plan.

    :D


This discussion has been closed.
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