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**Jernal** · 06-06-2012, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonics2k

Et tu?

No, this is Eto'o.

**robindch** · 07-06-2012, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonics2k

Et tu?

Brutal response.

rugbyman · 10-06-2012, 14:33

posted this a few momets ago in another Dawkins thread

better here me thinks

settle a discussion
.
my friend ,who is a theist, went to Mr Dawkins talk in Dublin recently. she says she definitely heard him saying " there is no god", I countered that a man of his ability would be unlikely to say that.(since no one can prove that)

On a quick google I hear him quoted elsewhere as being 6.9 out of 7 cetain there is no god,(which is what I would have expected)

Purely to settle this discussion between my friend and I,
A, does anyone who was there agree she could have heard him say that("there is no god")

B, does anyone on here who knows a lot about him think he would ever have come out with such a statement

Regards ,Rugbyman

Gbear · 10-06-2012, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugbyman

posted this a few momets ago in another Dawkins thread

better here me thinks

settle a discussion
.
my friend ,who is a theist, went to Mr Dawkins talk in Dublin recently. she says she definitely heard him saying " there is no god", I countered that a man of his ability would be unlikely to say that.(since no one can prove that)

On a quick google I hear him quoted elsewhere as being 6.9 out of 7 cetain there is no god,(which is what I would have expected)

Purely to settle this discussion between my friend and I,
A, does anyone who was there agree she could have heard him say that("there is no god")

B, does anyone on here who knows a lot about him think he would ever have come out with such a statement

Regards ,Rugbyman

It is possible that he made a mistake, or was using short hand to save time.

He's already been so clear about where he stands (6.9 out of 7 like you said) that it doesn't actually matter unless you're being deliberately obtuse and trying to play point scoring games.

**robindch** · 10-06-2012, 14:50

I don't have the quotes to hand, but his view is that he's almost fully certain that none of the variations on the christian deity -- protestant, catholic, orthodox, etc, etc -- exist, but to the best of my knowledge, he's never claimed that, for certain, they do not exist. That said, I seem to remember him saying that, as far as he's concerned, he lives as though they do not exist. And that's close enough that perhaps that's what your friend is remembering?

For beliefs that fall into the much more general category of "deist" (ie, there could be some kind of god or gods, but something not matching the description of the various christian deities), as you say, he's "pretty sure" they don't exist either and I'm sure the figure of 6.9 out of 7 is accurate, whatever it means.

Bear in mind also that your friend may well have been listening or reading something that's been taken out of context or simply made up. There does exist a small, but vibrant, cottage industry amongst the religious which is actively involved in openly misrepresenting their adversaries.

Gumbi · 10-06-2012, 23:44

The answers above sound reasonable. He may very well have made that statement, though, but meant it to be a shorthand way of saying "there is a high likelihood that God does not exist". It's like saying "unicorns don't exist".

zenbuffy · 14-06-2012, 11:43

I suppose that saying "there is a high likelihood that God does not exist" gets a bit cumbersome after a while. If you spend all of your time loading your sentences with caveats, you never get around to the point...

zenbuffy · 14-06-2012, 11:44

Oh, and it was nice to meet some A&A people at the talk and in the pub afterwards!

Gumbi · 14-06-2012, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbuffy

I suppose that saying "there is a high likelihood that God does not exist" gets a bit cumbersome after a while. If you spend all of your time loading your sentences with caveats, you never get around to the point...

Exactly.

**robindch** · 14-06-2012, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbuffy

I suppose that saying "there is a high likelihood that God does not exist" gets a bit cumbersome after a while. If you spend all of your time loading your sentences with caveats, you never get around to the point...

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people are so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell.

**Galvasean** · 14-06-2012, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by robindch

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people are so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell.

Wise words. I've lost count of the amount of times when discussing biology related matters where I would say something along the lines of, "Creature X is the probable ancestor of creature Y" only for some tool to say, "Aha! So you aren't totally certain!" as if being scientifically cautious and avoiding dogmatic statements was some sort of a bad thing.

**Jernal** · 15-06-2012, 13:15

To be honest I don't care. I find if you start using likelihood qualifiers in just about every statement people start to get the point. Obviously it's not going to work on strangers you meet for the first time but I think it's better to include the uncertainties. It makes the person you're disagreeing with look like they're clutching for straws and it also helps avoid you coming across as a dogmatist which happens to be the stereotype that most people look out for. Surprise their expectations and you usually give them something to think about even if they don't say it to your face.

Ush1 · 10-08-2012, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calibos

Late Late Show loon was at the last one in the RDS. Had never heard of him or seen him before but when myself and my brother sat down, I said to my brother that if anyone was going to be the Dawkins Heckler du Jour, it was going to be this guy in the row in front. I dunno, its not like he was scruffy or unkempt looking or Loony looking but there must have been something I was subconciously picking up on. (Maybe nervous fidgetting or something).

Sure enough, he was the guy who had to be escorted out. Twas only when I got home and researched that I read it was Late Late show heckler guy.

That said, while I was cringing at his outbursts, I felt for the poor mental case when he was heckled and laughed at by the audience on that occasion. and thought to myself, "Ah come on lads, lets not be the Atheist stereotype that we hate being accused of FFS!!"

Haha, that's gas.

The guy I'm on about is the con man John May who wrote "The Origins of Specious Nonsense" claiming natural selection was all a lie and that God did it.

He stood up to ask a question and just gave a fawning comment about it's about time the catholic church was gone from Ireland.

I was hoping for him to challenge Dawkins and have Dawkins rip him to shreds.

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10-06-2012, 14:33	#78
rugbyman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,233 Adverts \| Friends	posted this a few momets ago in another Dawkins thread better here me thinks settle a discussion . my friend ,who is a theist, went to Mr Dawkins talk in Dublin recently. she says she definitely heard him saying " there is no god", I countered that a man of his ability would be unlikely to say that.(since no one can prove that) On a quick google I hear him quoted elsewhere as being 6.9 out of 7 cetain there is no god,(which is what I would have expected) Purely to settle this discussion between my friend and I, A, does anyone who was there agree she could have heard him say that("there is no god") B, does anyone on here who knows a lot about him think he would ever have come out with such a statement Regards ,Rugbyman

10-06-2012, 14:50	#80
robindch Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 15,335 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Atheism & Agnosticism, Irish Skeptics	I don't have the quotes to hand, but his view is that he's almost fully certain that none of the variations on the christian deity -- protestant, catholic, orthodox, etc, etc -- exist, but to the best of my knowledge, he's never claimed that, for certain, they do not exist. That said, I seem to remember him saying that, as far as he's concerned, he lives as though they do not exist. And that's close enough that perhaps that's what your friend is remembering? For beliefs that fall into the much more general category of "deist" (ie, there could be some kind of god or gods, but something not matching the description of the various christian deities), as you say, he's "pretty sure" they don't exist either and I'm sure the figure of 6.9 out of 7 is accurate, whatever it means. Bear in mind also that your friend may well have been listening or reading something that's been taken out of context or simply made up. There does exist a small, but vibrant, cottage industry amongst the religious which is actively involved in openly misrepresenting their adversaries.

10-06-2012, 23:44	#81
Gumbi Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,758 Adverts \| Friends	The answers above sound reasonable. He may very well have made that statement, though, but meant it to be a shorthand way of saying "there is a high likelihood that God does not exist". It's like saying "unicorns don't exist".

14-06-2012, 11:43	#82
zenbuffy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 67 Adverts \| Friends	I suppose that saying "there is a high likelihood that God does not exist" gets a bit cumbersome after a while. If you spend all of your time loading your sentences with caveats, you never get around to the point...

14-06-2012, 11:44	#83
zenbuffy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 67 Adverts \| Friends	Oh, and it was nice to meet some A&A people at the talk and in the pub afterwards!

15-06-2012, 13:15	#87
Jernal Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pale Blue Dot. Posts: 10,391 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Atheism & Agnosticism	To be honest I don't care. I find if you start using likelihood qualifiers in just about every statement people start to get the point. Obviously it's not going to work on strangers you meet for the first time but I think it's better to include the uncertainties. It makes the person you're disagreeing with look like they're clutching for straws and it also helps avoid you coming across as a dogmatist which happens to be the stereotype that most people look out for. Surprise their expectations and you usually give them something to think about even if they don't say it to your face.