Rats fleeing a sinking ship

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:10pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Firstly, I don't have a problem with my community, nor any community that I have ever lived in, apart from the recent job crisis. That not a community issue as such, it's a national issue.

That doesn't make any sense.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Do you have a job?

Self employed for many years now, and working harder than ever at it. You're looking for work, why not apply for the job which needs no qualifications, has a great remuneration package, you can retire really quickly, and has plenty of perks? The interview process is a bit tricky, but other than that its great - become a TD or councillor! There's nothing stopping you, and as an added bonus you can fix the country in the process.

bleg · 31-03-2010 10:12pm

I'm not willing to pay for the greed and mistakes of previous generations that I have had absolutely nothing to do with (only got the vote for the last GE, couldn't vote cause of exams). At the age of 22 I recently started working after university, for the greater part of my working life I will be paying off the debt of a previous generation. If I have children they will more than likely be adversely affected by debt inherited from 2 generations earlier.

I want to work towards paying for a better future, not paying off a decrepit past. Not going to happen in Ireland for a while.

Renegade_Archer · 31-03-2010 10:22pm

Let's see.

I went from living in Drogheda, driving a Seat Toledo up to IBM Mulhuddart every day, to living in Los Angeles, where it rains maybe 5 times a year, drive a Mazda MX5 1.5 miles to work, and make roughly 5 times as much as I did in Ireland.

Why would I want to "stay and fight", as you put it?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 10:26pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense.

]

Which part and why?

Self employed for many years now, and working harder than ever at it. You're looking for work, why not apply for the job which needs no qualifications, has a great remuneration package, you can retire really quickly, and has plenty of perks? The interview process is a bit tricky, but other than that its great - become a TD or councillor! There's nothing stopping you, and as an added bonus you can fix the country in the process.

So you have an income. Great now we are getting somewhere. Does the OP have a job? How can somebody with a job call me a rat for trying to search for a job elsewhere? That's a fcuking insult to say the least. Your opinion doesn't count as you are not in the same position as those who are unemployed. I have bigger problems than broken footpaths and lonely neighbours to sort out.

Why don't I apply to become a brain sergeon or a dentist? For the same reason I wouldn't become a TD, however much I would love to make a change. I simply do not have the skills, experience or education to do any of these jobs.

31-03-2010 10:27pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Just to let you know, 1% is not stagnant, that is growth. No matter what you say, it's not stagnant.

It's pretty simple really. You still haven't given any proof of any of your claims. You are just speculating. You say this is going to increase unemployment over all? I say it's going to increas employment, why? Because it gives people the proper skillset and experience to persue a paid job at the end of their 6 months intern...

Firstly Japan has been hovering from 0.25% GDP growth to 3% GDP growth for the last few years and is described as stagnant.

secondly you have no clue about economics. Its really basic supply and demand. Offer something cheap and people will consumer more of it. Offer workers cheap....i.e at NO COST to the business and the businesses will jump on it displacing real paid jobs, this country hasnt a f*cking hope if people think the WPP scheme is a good thing

31-03-2010 10:31pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

I say it's going to increas employment, why? Because it gives people the proper skillset and experience to persue a paid job at the end of their 6 months intern...

Tell me how it will create jobs? It does nothing, not a goddamn thing to tackle the root causes of unemployment here. The main reasons multinationals cite when relocating abroad are:

High Electricity costs
High Wage costs
High Insurance costs
High Rents

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:33pm

Renegade_Archer wrote: »

Let's see.

I went from living in Drogheda, driving a Seat Toledo up to IBM Mulhuddart every day, to living in Los Angeles, where it rains maybe 5 times a year, drive a Mazda MX5 1.5 miles to work, and make roughly 5 times as much as I did in Ireland.

Why would I want to "stay and fight", as you put it?

And if things turn sour stateside for you, you can always leave and go somewhere else, right?

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

So you have an income. Great now we are getting somewhere. Does the OP have a job? How can somebody with a job call me a rat for trying to search for a job elsewhere? That's a fcuking insult to say the least.

Sure, but I'm not the one saying it.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Your opinion doesn't count as you are not in the same position as those who are unemployed. I have bigger problems than broken footpaths and lonely neighbours to sort out.

You have no idea of what my position is.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Why don't I apply to become a brain sergeon or a dentist? For the same reason I wouldn't become a TD, however much I would love to make a change. I simply do not have the skills, experience or education to do any of these jobs.

The only skills you need to be a TD are being able to speak in public and win debates. Join the local toastmasters, you're 90% of the way there.

Renegade_Archer · 31-03-2010 10:42pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And if things turn sour stateside for you, you can always leave and go somewhere else, right?

Certainly - why anyone in the Republic would forgo a mostly free 3rd level education is beyond me. This is perhaps the only part of leaving I feel slightly guilty about - Ireland educated me, and then I left.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:45pm

Renegade_Archer wrote: »

Certainly - why anyone in the Republic would forgo a mostly free 3rd level education is beyond me. This is perhaps the only part of leaving I feel slightly guilty about - Ireland educated me, and then I left.

And the reason you have somewhere better to go is because someone, at some stage, decided to stay and fight to make it better.

If everyone just decided to leave, sooner or later they wouldn't have anyplace better to go. As I already said, I wouldn't hold it against anyone who felt it was in their best interests to leave the country, but try to understand the sentiments of those who work to make countries where you can drive around in a nice Mazda MX5.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 10:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Firstly Japan has been hovering from 0.25% GDP growth to 3% GDP growth for the last few years and is described as stagnant.

secondly you have no clue about economics. Its really basic supply and demand. Offer something cheap and people will consumer more of it. Offer workers cheap....i.e at NO COST to the business and the businesses will jump on it displacing real paid jobs, this country hasnt a f*cking hope if people think the WPP scheme is a good thing

Described by who? Because they haven't a fcuking clue of the meaning of the word.

Stagnant = no growth. Sure if "they" say it's true it must be... :rolleyes:

This country doesn't have a hope if people keep whining about any policies brought out to help people. I honestly couldn't give a fcuk what oyu think of the WPP, all I care about is that it can help me find a job, and that's all that matters. You assume that every company on the scheme is abusing the system. They are not. Again, avoid my questions...

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And if things turn sour stateside for you, you can always leave and go somewhere else, right?

Why not? What is this silly idea that people should be bound to one place? Why should anybody be bound to any one country? Pride? Fcuk pride... pride is not going to help my cause.

You have no idea of what my position is.

You have a job, that's all I need to know. You are debating from a position with little or no experience of emigration. How exactly can you have an opinion on the matter? How can you have the cheek to give people crap for moving abroad to improve their circumstances when you are not in that position? That kind of crap pisses me off. You shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that... why don't people mind their own business? I'll do what the fcuk I want... Simple as.

The only skills you need to be a TD are being able to speak in public and win debates. Join the local toastmasters, you're 90% of the way there.

...

Mister men · 31-03-2010 10:48pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

If I chose to go to another country to find work, I am considered a traitor? I am abandoning my country, community, family and friends? Fcuk that, I am not sitting on my hole waiting for work to land on my lap, nore am I going to sit around this kip to wait for the government to act on the job crisis and do their fcuking jobs. I'm out of here as soon as I possibly can. I just hope my plans work out.

Hope it works out for you. Did the same back in the early 90's when you could'nt find a job for love nor money and the worst mistake i ever made was returning to Ireland in 2002. I'm stuck here now with a ****ty low paid job and the only reason i'm still here is i want my 12 year old daughter to finish up her junior schooling. When she's done in June the three of us are out of this kip and off to the wife's family in Toronto. This country is finished and i feel sorry for anyone left behind to clean up the mess.

Renegade_Archer · 31-03-2010 10:51pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And the reason you have somewhere better to go is because someone, at some stage, decided to stay and fight to make it better.

If everyone just decided to leave, sooner or later they wouldn't have anyplace better to go. As I already said, I wouldn't hold it against anyone who felt it was in their best interests to leave the country, but try to understand the sentiments of those who work to make countries where you can drive around in a nice Mazda MX5.

I agree with you, but I honestly don't care. If I stayed in Ireland and continued banging away in IBM for feck all a year I don't think I would have improved Ireland's lot by any appreciable amount. However, I had a chance to improve my own lot by a very appreciable amount, so I went for it.

twinytwo · 31-03-2010 10:53pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I've already said marching is pointless.

true.. the last time there was any real change in this country it was through rebellion and im sad to say it would prob take that again. But then even if we got rid of the government who takes over?.. the muppets sitting on the other side of the dail?.

To really sort out the country you would have to start at the top and clean the whole lot out. Get rid of all the corruption etc

tipperaryboy · 31-03-2010 10:54pm

sure why not go ahead if there is a better future for you abroad.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:54pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

You have a job, that's all I need to know.

Thats unbelievably ignorant of you to be honest. You seriously think being on the dole is the lowest you can sink? What about the guy up to his eyes in hock to the banks, and his family about to be turfed out on the street? What about the self employed who can't claim social welfare at all (including myself)? What about the poor fella sitting in quiet desperation now the work has run out, in the same position? They'd swap lives with you in a heartbeat.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

You are debating from a position with little or no experience of emigration.

Again, you know nothing about my position.

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

That kind of crap pisses me off.

I think everything pisses you off to be honest, so I'll just leave it there.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 10:56pm

Renegade_Archer wrote: »

I agree with you, but I honestly don't care. If I stayed in Ireland and continued banging away in IBM for feck all a year I don't think I would have improved Ireland's lot by any appreciable amount. However, I had a chance to improve my own lot by a very appreciable amount, so I went for it.

And thats why I wouldn't hold it against anyone that wants to improve themselves. However, you did ask why would anyone (or even you) stay and fight, and I hope I've answered that question.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:03pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Thats unbelievably ignorant of you to be honest. You seriously think being on the dole is the lowest you can sink? What about the guy up to his eyes in hock to the banks, and his family about to be turfed out on the street? What about the self employed who can't claim social welfare at all (including myself)? What about the poor fella sitting in quiet desperation now the work has run out, in the same position? They'd swap lives with you in a heartbeat.

No need to call me ignorant. I am far from ignorant in this case. Where did I imply that the dole was the lowest anybody could sink? That's a very naive thought to say the least.

You have a job, I do not. I want to emigrate to find work and you are telling me that it's the wrong thing to do. That's the kind of crap that pisses me off. You are in no position to tell me what is the right or wrong thing to do.

I asked you what should I do and you link me to your group? I should join that? Is that going to get me a job in the near future? I don't think so. It's easy for you to say "oh stay here and collect your 196 a week, emigrating is wrong"...

It's selfish to want the educated to stay, because we just should...

Again, you know nothing about my position.

You have a job, which is what I am emigrating for. Therefore you cannot tell me what I am doing is wrong.

I think everything pisses you off to be honest, so I'll just leave it there.

Wrong... Not everything

Can you explain this for me?

and that nobody will by merit of mere birth deny the greater wellbeing of the nation for their own personal gain

Agent J · 31-03-2010 11:05pm

All hands abandon ship. Repeat all hands abandon ship!

Good luck to anyone who tries to make a better life for themselves abroad.
If i was in a position to, i would be doing the same.

Rented Mule · 31-03-2010 11:07pm

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 11:10pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

I want to emigrate to find work and you are telling me that it's the wrong thing to do.

There isn't enough facepalm on the internet...

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:10pm

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

It's a cowardice and ignorant insult aimed at people looking to improve their lives. I sense that people who don't want you to go abroad are jealous in some way, they want you to stay so their lives may improve? I don't know, it seems very selfish to me.

Fair play to ya by the way

rich1874 · 31-03-2010 11:11pm

Mister men wrote: »

Hope it works out for you. Did the same back in the early 90's when you could'nt find a job for love nor money and the worst mistake i ever made was returning to Ireland in 2002. I'm stuck here now with a ****ty low paid job and the only reason i'm still here is i want my 12 year old daughter to finish up her junior schooling. When she's done in June the three of us are out of this kip and off to the wife's family in Toronto. This country is finished and i feel sorry for anyone left behind to clean up the mess.

The country is finshed? When was this?, (looks out window), nope, country is actually still here. So get off your high horse. You don't have to feel sorry for me by the way, believe it or not the country will continue to function and will prosper again one day. I'm sure Toronto has had its dark economic days and will again so please don't think it's the salvation for mankind.
And i actually disagree with the OP wholeheartedly, people should feel no guilt in going wherever they want, but you don't have to feel sorry for people left behind. It's so melodramatic We won't die or anything.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:12pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

There isn't enough facepalm on the internet...

Try explaining yourself, would you? Instead of this rubbish you post. What you are doing now is just trolling...

Have you the ability to continue the debate? Comment on my recent points? Address my questions? Or are you going to continue with this type of posting?

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 11:20pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Try explaining yourself, would you? Instead of this rubbish you post. What you are doing now is just trolling...

Have you the ability to continue the debate? Comment on my recent points? Address my questions? Or are you going to continue with this type of posting?

Why did you take "seeking any work in Dublin" off your sig recently, just out of interest?

kodute · 31-03-2010 11:25pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Why did you take "seeking any work in Dublin" off your sig recently, just out of interest?

I don't have "seeking free Lamborghini" in my sig. Does that mean I don't want one?

I disagree with the OP, its time to march to get these clowns out.

The Master · 31-03-2010 11:26pm

Take it easy guys

You're starting to get personal now

If this keeps up bans will be handed out

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 31-03-2010 11:30pm

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Why did you take "seeking any work in Dublin" off your sig recently, just out of interest?

It was not effective, nothing came of it. It attracted the wrong kind of attention and gave people much needed ammunition for their failing arguements.

I decided today to replace it with an advert. If that's ok with you

Come on, can you answer what I asked in my last post? Cheers.

Tigger · 31-03-2010 11:31pm

on growth
if gdp in year one is 105 then its 100 if we have to take away 5%
if we ecperiance 3% growth then gdp in year 2 is 105 + 3% = 108.015
less 5% leaves 102.85 or therabouts
so year one is 100 an year 2 is 102.85 after adjustment
this should show that a reduction of 5% of gdp is also a reduction of 5% of growth not 5% in growth if 5% lerss of the growth figure

people need to stop scaremongering blaming each other and get on with it
if you wanna go then good luck if you wanna stay then good luck

if i decided to leave and someone called me a rat i rewally would think they were a fool

davyjose · 31-03-2010 11:33pm

Rented Mule wrote: »

I left Ireland for the States in August. Found work right away working in IT. Have a part time job that pays very well and just signed a contract on a $450,000 house.

My wife and kids will be following me over this summer.

Now I could have stayed, collected the dole, child allowance and anything else I could get my hands on .....or I could get off of my ass and make a life for me and my family.

So I am a 'rat' for making a better life for my family ?

Laughable.

Couldn't agree more.

Question is: is it still trolling when it's the opening post?

Amhran Nua · 31-03-2010 11:34pm

Hugo Curved Fibula wrote: »

Come on, can you answer what I asked in my last post? Cheers.

Already did, several times in the thread.

Rats fleeing a sinking ship

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