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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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First time rifle. Help appreciated

  • 03-11-2015 10:38pm
    #1
    Mackas_view
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭


    Hi all. Ive been into guns for a long time and I'm finally in a position to own one so I've come here looking for advice from the seasoned shooters.

    The main uses of the rifle would be target shooting with some vermin and that thrown in. Mainly I want to focus on marksmanship so pinging targets, at as far a distance as possible eventually (obviously my first rifle won't be greater than .22). Then moving on to vermin etc.

    Can anyone recommend a good rifle for the purposes intended?or even better again a good package that would include rifle and scope at the minimum.

    Thanks in advance brothers.


Comments

  • #2
    Mackas_view
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭Mackas_view


    For example I was looking at this
    http://www.thegunstore.ie/eu/guns/cz-thumbhole-17hmr-package.html

    Also anyone giving feedback please take into account price of ammo etc. I'm well aware of prices of gun cabinets and that. As I say I'm not new to guns or shooting. I just need a bit of advice


  • #3
    Mackas_view
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭Mackas_view


    http://www.thegunstore.ie/eu/guns/ruger-22-hornet.html


  • #4
    Luckysasha
    Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Luckysasha


    I recently bought my first rifle a Cz 455 .22lr. It came with a scope for €650. Have a look at sports den.ie they have a similar one. I have to say after only a couple of weeks I'm fairly accurate at targets 100 yards out. So this might be worth a look. Bear in mind you will need a safe for a rifle this will set you back about €170. Also €80 for the license plus you will have to do the firearms competency course which is about €50 or so depending on where you do it. All in all your probably talking a grand to get started.


  • #5
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Mackas_view wrote: »
    The main uses of the rifle would be target shooting with some vermin and that thrown in. Mainly I want to focus on marksmanship so pinging targets, at as far a distance as possible eventually (obviously my first rifle won't be greater than .22). Then moving on to vermin etc.
    If you want to start on something no greater than a .22 then it's either the .22lr or the .17 hmr. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

    I done a comparison here on the two.

    One is limited to 100 yards (effectively) and the other 200 yards (effectively). You can push both further but performance may suffer. To go further you need to go to higher caliber.
    or even better again a good package that would include rifle and scope at the minimum.
    Most every dealer will have a suitable rifle in stock. Some will do deals, as said above, to include scope, etc. There is also the for sale section here. Do a search and you might find something that suits.
    Mackas_view wrote: »
    Also anyone giving feedback please take into account price of ammo etc.
    As per my comparison above the .22lr is the cheapest in terms of feeding ammo. You suffer from range and effectiveness, but a great fun gun with a host of uses.

    The hmr is more expensive at an average of €17 per 50. The Hornett will run you more, is a less wanted caliber, and has a poor resale status at the moment. So i'd advice you to steer clear of them. The hmr can do everything the Hornet can do, if more popular and cheaper to feed. So if you want something with more "kick" then look to the hmr.
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  • #6
    Mackas_view
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭Mackas_view


    Luckysasha wrote: »
    I recently bought my first rifle a Cz 455 .22lr. It came with a scope for €650. Have a look at sports den.ie they have a similar one. I have to say after only a couple of weeks I'm fairly accurate at targets 100 yards out. So this might be worth a look. Bear in mind you will need a safe for a rifle this will set you back about €170. Also €80 for the license plus you will have to do the firearms competency course which is about €50 or so depending on where you do it. All in all your probably talking a grand to get started.

    Thanks how much is 50 rounds costing you ? Also how much research did you do into buying a rifle before you bought this one? Lastly why did you decide to buy this particular one?

    Thanks for the reply 😊


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  • #7
    Baker.22
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Baker.22


    The main uses of the rifle would be target shooting with some vermin and that thrown in. Mainly I want to focus on marksmanship so pinging targets, at as far a distance as possible eventually (obviously my first rifle won't be greater than .22). Then moving on to vermin etc.

    Can anyone recommend a good rifle for the purposes intended?or even better again a good package that would include rifle and scope at the minimum.

    Thanks in advance brothers.[/quote]

    Is TARGET shooting your expected main use for this rifle ?????
    If so the .22 is your only option as there is no Target shooting for .17 that I am aware of.
    There are 2 main versions, Gallery rifle and Benchrest. Both of these use very different firearms in .22
    You should visit a Range to find out more about each discipline, like Harbour House or Hilltop, what part of Ireland are you based in ?


  • #8
    Luckysasha
    Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Luckysasha


    Mackas_view wrote: »
    Thanks how much is 50 rounds costing you ? Also how much research did you do into buying a rifle before you bought this one? Lastly why did you decide to buy this particular one?

    Thanks for the reply 😊

    Roughly speaking 50 rounds works outs about €9 depending where you buy etc. At the moment I'm shooting subsonics with a moderator they are costing me €16 per 100 rounds. I see a lot of gun shops will let you buy ammo online so shop around.
    The best way to make up your mind is go and talk to your local gun dealer. Explain what you want the gun for and like the one I went to if he has a range ask to try them out. I tried a couple of different .22 rifles and just like the comfort of the Cz 455 .22lr with the wooden stock. He had a synthetic version but it just didn't appeal to me but hey everyone is different


  • #9
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Just to add if you are using it for mainly target shooting but want to move to vermin you need to put it on application that you intend to use the rifle for both.


  • #10
    thebeerbaron
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭thebeerbaron


    Tell them they can keep the parker hale moderator!


  • #11
    Steve012
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Steve012


    Browning buck mark sporter is a very accurate "dead on" straight out of the box.
    Worth a look at!! Excellent rifle! :D

    http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=004B&cid=021&tid=026


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  • #12
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    Would a first time gun owner be able to get an M&P 15-22 22.LR? Or does it look too mean for the super to sign off on?


  • #13
    Steve012
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Steve012


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Would a first time gun owner be able to get an M&P 15-22 22.LR? Or does it look too mean for the super to sign off on?

    I'd love one and was in the process of getting one!, but my club told me not to even go for it, (Cause of mean looks!) There are lad's in Ireland that have got them licensed though!

    Maybe some of the lads here can determine for you if its possible to get one.
    I think the boys in my club said it was just looks alone that it "could" get refused.
    I didn't want to have to put down on new FA forms that I was refused a firearm, so I didn't bother..


  • #14
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Steve012 wrote: »
    Browning buck mark sporter is a very accurate "dead on" straight out of the box.
    Worth a look at!! Excellent rifle! :D

    http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=004B&cid=021&tid=026
    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Would a first time gun owner be able to get an M&P 15-22 22.LR? Or does it look too mean for the super to sign off on?

    I'm open to correction but I reckon both guns are restricted. The buckmark would be restricted as the magazine is behind the trigger mechanism which means it could be classed as a bullpup design.

    Based on the look of the thing, the M&P 15-22 would probably be classed as restricted too.

    There isn't anybody here on boards that could tell you if you can get one or not, that's up to your Chief Super. That doesn't mean that you can't licence either rifle. It just means that you would have to argue your case for one to a Chief Super.

    If you want to do target shooting and vermin control, then have a look at a Ruger 10/22. It's a .22 rifle that is suited to many types of target shooting. They are very versatile and can be easily upgraded if you have the money.

    There's no one gun that is suitable for all types of target shooting so it all depends on the type of target shooting that you want to do.

    By the way, if you want to do target shooting, you'll have to join a range if you want to stay on the right side of the law.


  • #15
    Steve012
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Steve012


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm open to correction but I reckon both guns are restricted. The buckmark would be restricted as the magazine is behind the trigger mechanism which means it could be classed as a bullpup design.

    Based on the look of the thing, the M&P 15-22 would probably be classed as restricted too.

    There isn't anybody here on boards that could tell you if you can get one or not, that's up to your Chief Super. That doesn't mean that you can't licence either rifle. It just means that you would have to argue your case for one to a Chief Super.

    If you want to do target shooting and vermin control, then have a look at a Ruger 10/22. It's a .22 rifle that is suited to many types of target shooting. They are very versatile and can be easily upgraded if you have the money.

    There's no one gun that is suitable for all types of target shooting so it all depends on the type of target shooting that you want to do.

    By the way, if you want to do target shooting, you'll have to join a range if you want to stay on the right side of the law.

    The Buck mark is a bullpup, I had a chat with my FO, and because many other were licensed in my club, there wasn't a problem.
    But your right Bcorp, it kinda should be classed as restricted.. I crossed my fingers when applying for that firearm.


  • #16
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Steve012 wrote: »
    The Buck mark is a bullpup, I had a chat with my FO, and because many other were licensed in my club, there wasn't a problem.
    But your right Bcorp, it kinda should be classed as restricted.. I crossed my fingers when applying for that firearm.

    I'm not being smart but don't take your FO's word on whether something is restricted or not or whether you are in the clear because many others are licenced in your club.. Only a Super/Chief Super can decide if it's restricted, the FO has no say in the matter.

    If you are granted an unrestricted licence for a buckmark, you aren't in the clear. If the Super/Chief Super decides that it's restricted at a later date, you could be in trouble even though the Gardai have given you a licence for it. They could say that you applied for the wrong category of licence. And even though they gave you the licence, it's you that is in trouble as it's your responsibility to apply for the correct licence.


  • #17
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The BuckMark is restricted, no grey area there. The M&P is unrestricted, but the "idon'tlikethelookofthat" could come into play. However legally speaking as long as it's only a ten round mag (limited to that ONLY) its nrestricted. Anything more than 10 and its restricted.
    Steve012 wrote: »
    The Buck mark is a bullpup, I had a chat with my FO, and because many other were licensed in my club, there wasn't a problem.
    But your right Bcorp, it kinda should be classed as restricted.. I crossed my fingers when applying for that firearm.
    There is no "kinda". It is restricted. If you have,l as Battlecorp said:
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    If you are granted an unrestricted licence for a buckmark, you aren't in the clear.
    , an unrestricted license for a Buckmark your license is moot and you are in possession of an unlicensed firearm. If this is the case, get the gun into a dealers, and get back down to the Garda station and get the right license.

    Remember that the firearms act says the licensee is responsible for knowing what license they need so even if the Super issued you an unrestricted license its you that'll get it in the neck.
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  • #18
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    Restricted firearms on an unrestricted licence happens quite often.
    A few years ago a lad turned up at my club with a camo pattern s/a .223 (I think it was a Remington) which was on an unrestricted licence. He was somewhat peeved after being told it was a restricted gun.
    I know at least one dealer that steadfastly tells customers the Buckmark rifle is unrestricted -'Sure the Buckmark pistol is not restricted, How would the rifle version be restricted?' (His argument, not mine) But then, he is trying to sell them I suppose.


  • #19
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    But as i've said numerous times it's the licensee's responsibility.

    Look at my own application. My rifle is called the VTR same as Remmys bolt action so the CS thought it was unrestricted. I had to make sure he knew it was restricted and not sent down to the Super who would either issue a "moot" license or send it back up to the CS.
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  • #20
    Steve012
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Steve012


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm not being smart but don't take your FO's word on whether something is restricted or not or whether you are in the clear because many others are licenced in your club.. Only a Super/Chief Super can decide if it's restricted, the FO has no say in the matter.

    If you are granted an unrestricted licence for a buckmark, you aren't in the clear. If the Super/Chief Super decides that it's restricted at a later date, you could be in trouble even though the Gardai have given you a licence for it. They could say that you applied for the wrong category of licence. And even though they gave you the licence, it's you that is in trouble as it's your responsibility to apply for the correct licence.

    That's quite unfortunate for me so.. best ring FO, I have already gotten it renewed last year.

    I said bullpup to him at the time, a few times, The first time I said it he said "what is that" ? Yep.. Ship you not..

    I'm sure there are a truck load of buck mark's licensed un res, they were selling them like hot cakes at my club..


  • #21
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Steve012 wrote: »
    That's quite unfortunate for me so.. best ring FO, I have already gotten it renewed last year.

    I said bullpup to him at the time, a few times, The first time I said it he said "what is that" ? Yep.. Ship you not..

    I'm sure there are a truck load of buck mark's licensed un res, they were selling them like hot cakes at my club..

    The licence for the Buckmark isn't worth the paper it's printed on if it was applied for as an unrestricted licence, no matter what your FO says.


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  • #22
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Pretty much what Battlecorp said.

    The "licenses" that anyone has for this as an unrestricted firearm is immediately moot due to the firearm being a restricted one. So everytime you, or anyone else with one brings out their rifle they are in every way unlicensed, in possession of an unlicensed firearm and frankly breaking the law.

    Yes i wish An Gardaí knew as much about firearms as most of us do, but they're covered. The problem, as i see it, is not so much An Gardaí or even the applicants it's the dealers. For each lad to have a gun with the wrong license it means the dealers selling them are handing out restricted firearms to people with unrestricted licenses. It's, legally, no different than selling me .243 ammo because i've a shotgun license.

    Will only be a matter of time before someone cops this and makes it their mission to correct it. by someone i mean a Super or Chief Super.
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  • #23
    Steve012
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Steve012


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The licence for the Buckmark isn't worth the paper it's printed on if it was applied for as an unrestricted licence, no matter what your FO says.

    It has been something that I've been thinking about for a while, It is like you guys say down to the person who owns the firearm!

    Will have a meet with my FO, hopefully I can still hang onto it, if they put it through as restricted.


  • #24
    NicholasF
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭NicholasF


    Mackas_view wrote: »
    Hi all. Ive been into guns for a long time and I'm finally in a position to own one so I've come here looking for advice from the seasoned shooters.

    Hello Mackas
    If I were you I would get something good from the get go, if you are going go, to all the trouble, then get it right from the out set.
    I would say the best in .22 Rifles are
    Anschutz
    Sako
    CZ
    in that order

    Within these manufactures you will have some which have different configurations .ie
    Hunter class
    Target Rifle
    and a combination of both
    Some will have 5 shot magazine, others can be single shot.

    From what I have read you have an interest in Field sport, so I would get the Hunter Style .22 Rifle.Usually has a 5 shot magazine, they are quite accurate, I shot a 10 shot 8.5 mm group at 100m and averaged 11mm out of 20 groups

    You may get a second hand Anschutz up for sale at a good price, they rarely lose there quality. A good price would be about E500 to E1000 with out Scope

    With the Scope
    I would look for
    Leupold
    Pentax
    Burris
    Tasco
    There are probably a few more, they may be up to speed.
    Try getting one with Target turrets.
    Standard Duplex reticle
    You may end up paying E200 to E500 for it.
    Again I would get a good one

    Have a look at the Leupold website and get an understanding of the different language they use when describing the scope and configurations

    You can get lucky and pick up a good one on the market, but you have to be knowledgeable

    If you need anything else just ask, I will happily explain
    Nicholas


  • #25
    Mackas_view
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭Mackas_view


    NicholasF wrote: »
    Hello Mackas
    If I were you I would get something good from the get go, if you are going go, to all the trouble, then get it right from the out set.
    I would say the best in .22 Rifles are
    Anschutz
    Sako
    CZ
    in that order

    Within these manufactures you will have some which have different configurations .ie
    Hunter class
    Target Rifle
    and a combination of both
    Some will have 5 shot magazine, others can be single shot.

    From what I have read you have an interest in Field sport, so I would get the Hunter Style .22 Rifle.Usually has a 5 shot magazine, they are quite accurate, I shot a 10 shot 8.5 mm group at 100m and averaged 11mm out of 20 groups

    You may get a second hand Anschutz up for sale at a good price, they rarely lose there quality. A good price would be about E500 to E1000 with out Scope

    With the Scope
    I would look for
    Leupold
    Pentax
    Burris
    Tasco
    There are probably a few more, they may be up to speed.
    Try getting one with Target turrets.
    Standard Duplex reticle
    You may end up paying E200 to E500 for it.
    Again I would get a good one

    Have a look at the Leupold website and get an understanding of the different language they use when describing the scope and configurations

    You can get lucky and pick up a good one on the market, but you have to be knowledgeable

    If you need anything else just ask, I will happily explain
    Nicholas

    Sorry for the late reply Nicholas. Thank you very much for your post it's the best advice I have received so far. I have a meeting with my FO before Christmas so I have to get my licence first before I can buy. I'll let you know how I get on and thanks again


  • #26
    NicholasF
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭NicholasF


    Its all about controlled thought and not.
    Enjoy Shooting your .22
    Nicholas


  • #27
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    they are quite accurate, I shot a 10 shot 8.5 mm group at 100m and averaged 11mm out of 20 groups
    That's very impressive Nicholas, but perhaps Mackas would be better served by having a less demanding goal to start with.

    Like, say, the test range record at Eley of 12.4mm at 50m? I mean, granted, it might take him a while to get to the standard Eley set using a heavy-barrelled hand-assembled Bleiker in a bench vice rest, but he could work on down from there to your group size over time using the lighter mass-produced barrel.


  • #28
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Mackas_view wrote: »
    Sorry for the late reply Nicholas. Thank you very much for your post it's the best advice I have received so far. I have a meeting with my FO before Christmas so I have to get my licence first before I can buy. I'll let you know how I get on and thanks again

    Apologies if I'm taking you up wrong but I'm not sure you fully understand the process for getting a gun. You don't get a licence and then pick out a gun.

    You must pick out your gun first, and then apply for the licence.

    The usual process is to find a gun you like, pay a deposit, get a letter from the person selling the gun to you, apply for the licence, get the licence, pay balance of the gun, collect the gun, then off to the range or hunting with you. I've simplified it slightly but that's pretty much the way it works.

    You said in your opening post that you wanted the gun for target shooting as well as vermin control. There are many types of target shooting disciplines. What kind of target shooting do you want to do? Bolt action rifles are excellent for precision shooting such as benchrest, prone, and 25m precision. But if you want to do gallery rifle competitions, you'll need a semi-automatic rifle. In gallery rifle, the Ruger 10/22 is king (with upgrades of course).

    The big decision here is what type of target shooting you want to do. Then you go find a gun that is suitable for that. Any gun can be used for vermin control.

    I'm not trying to push you one way or another but a semi automatic .22 can be used in gallery rifle target shooting and vermin control whereas a bolt action is good for vermin control but you are more limited when it comes to target shooting.

    By the way, are you in a target shooting club because you must be a member of a range to do target shooting? It is illegal to stick up a target in a field and ping away at it.


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