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changing my son's name to a double barrelled surname

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    I agree its far too indicative of the parents marital status, which doesnt seem fair imo. That's not what a child's name is about.

    + 1. Agree it labels a child at once - have to question the motives behind such a move.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Delancey wrote: »
    + 1. Agree it labels a child at once - have to question the motives behind such a move.

    My motive for doing it was practicality [raising a child alone], but I cant stand it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    :confused:
    deemark wrote: »
    I just want to interject here with a teacher's perspective. In secondary schools, double-barrelled names are not unusual, neither is students having a different name to their parents. However, it does 99% of the time denote that the parents are no longer together, which on one hand saves the student being asked awkward questions but on the other hand, it kind of labels them. Bullying wouldn't be an issue. When it comes to roll call, most teachers would call out the first part of the double barrel, not the whole thing.

    Common usage is the way to go. When he's older, he can decide himself.

    This could not possibly reflect the attitudes of teachers generally, could it?

    Firstly, making lazy assumptions about the parents' living situation based on the kid's surnames; Secondly, based on those lazy assumptions, making decisions on which questions should be put to which kids supposedly to avoid "awkwardness"; Thirdly, what possible reason -other than absolute sheer disinterest/ laziness - would a teacher have for not call a kid's full surname at roll time? A teacher who would do that is showing total disrespect for the pupil and parents.

    Other posts equating double barrell surnames = pretentiousness - why are people so worried about about the perceptions of others?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    I agree its far too indicative of the parents marital status, which doesnt seem fair imo. That's not what a child's name is about.

    You're right, its not fair. But if uninformed people want to jump to conclusions based on a child's surname, what can you do - give in to groupthink?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Delancey wrote: »
    + 1. Agree it labels a child at once - have to question the motives behind such a move.

    Says more about those applying the labels tbh.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    Double barrelled names are ridic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Well, double barrell surnames solve the problem of blended families no?

    For eg, lets say my surname is Smith and so is my daughters.

    I marry Mr. Jones and change my name to Jones. And we have kids and call them Jones. Poor child Number 1 is blatantly singled out as not being Mr. Jones child.

    Whereas if I call all the kids Smith Jones and use that name myself, then child Smith isn't quite so singled out as not being of that family.

    At least then there won't be confusion in school as to who her siblings are.
    What do you mean you're Xs sister? He's Jones, you're Smith......


    If i'd done things the traditional route and gotten married, had a baby then it wouldn't have entered my mind to keep my maiden name or double barrell my kids names. But I didn't and so it'd be the best option for my situation I think.

    Can't believe people would assume it meant anything. The few kids in my class with double barrell names were from happily married families where the mothers kept their maiden names. No biggie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,133 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'm Mr. Jones in that scenario ash23 (though we're not married). The best solution to the issue of naming in this situation is for Mr Jones to swallow his pride / reign in his ego and ask Ms. Smith to keep her maiden name and call their children Smith's in order for them to have the same name as their older sibling.

    Your solution still leads to eldest daughter being the "odd-one-out" in the family unit. Not a fair burden to put on any child imho.

    Double-barrel names, to me, indicate egotistical parents who are both too stubborn to relent on an argument over which name to give their offspring and as "a compromise" give the child a ridiculous sounding name in order for the adults to save face. Where both actively like double-barrel names and think of them as an ideal tells me that they'd fetch bouquets of water from a well ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    I totally agree with you Sleepy although, as you know I am from the US and in the US the double barrell is reserved for the married woman.It has nothing to do with fancy families or anything like that, its a sign you are married but you dont want to give up your maiden name. Kids never do this for as long as I can remember. You take your dads name and that's it except if you are Angelina Jolie or Emilio Estevez. Its an abberration to use your mother;s name and in the state Im from, the father has rights to petition for his name to be used EXCLUSIVELY, that is how steep the tradition is.

    If you remarry and your kids have different names, that is ok too. Sometimes a child as they get older might want to change the name to the step dads, and that is a big step and usually done in specific circumstances but wouldnt be the norm.

    Sleepy, that is a noble gesture you did, but you do realise that your grandkids etc will also carry your girlfriend's name, and I suppose you are confident enough that you wont break up and have another child down the line with another woman.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    This could not possibly reflect the attitudes of teachers generally, could it?

    Firstly, making lazy assumptions about the parents' living situation based on the kid's surnames; Secondly, based on those lazy assumptions, making decisions on which questions should be put to which kids supposedly to avoid "awkwardness"; Thirdly, what possible reason -other than absolute sheer disinterest/ laziness - would a teacher have for not call a kid's full surname at roll time? A teacher who would do that is showing total disrespect for the pupil and parents.

    I did not indicate ANY attitude, I was merely offering the perspective from another point of view.

    I am quite offended by your post to be honest; you're implying that teachers make lazy assumptions based on a kid's name. I, for one, make a point of being aware of any issues in a kid's background (but I'm sure someone is going to post saying that it's none of my business) and was pointing out that the double-barrelled name in my school usually denotes separated parents. Now, if making a mental note of something and checking up on it is making lazy assumptions.....

    As for awkward questions, since when is taking a kid's circumstances and feelings into consideration a bad thing for a teacher to do? It's been a long time since I could use the words 'mother' or 'father' in class, even asking some of my students to get a note signed by 'a parent' is dodgy territory. I usually go with 'whoever is at home'. Have you ever tried to teach "mo chlann" (my family) in Irish in a minefield like that?

    And as for your third point, you go with common usage. Many students have their second name on the roll, but never use it. Likewise, the full double-barrelled name usually doesn't appear on the student's copy or work.

    Now, my school is a DEIS school with a lot of family problems e.g. half of our students would come from one parent families and other teachers may have different experiences. This is my two cents' worth; didn't expect to be attacked for it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I'm Mr. Jones in that scenario ash23 (though we're not married). The best solution to the issue of naming in this situation is for Mr Jones to swallow his pride / reign in his ego and ask Ms. Smith to keep her maiden name and call their children Smith's in order for them to have the same name as their older sibling.

    Your solution still leads to eldest daughter being the "odd-one-out" in the family unit. Not a fair burden to put on any child imho.

    Double-barrel names, to me, indicate egotistical parents who are both too stubborn to relent on an argument over which name to give their offspring and as "a compromise" give the child a ridiculous sounding name in order for the adults to save face. Where both actively like double-barrel names and think of them as an ideal tells me that they'd fetch bouquets of water from a well ;)

    The situation you've described has been met with resistance in the past and I'd imagine would be again.I'm not sure most men are open to the idea of taking their wifes name. I'd love for a future partner to take my name and my daughters name but I don't think there are many men who would so it's a second best case scenario.

    My solution at least gives her some part of the "family" name as opposed to be totally outside the loop when it comes to the surname.

    Edited to add, I know many women who's children have their maiden name and the fathers name and where the mother has remarried, they changed the name by common usage to the mothers married name and fathers name so they would have a similar tie to the "new" family. The kids were given a choice as they are older but all wanted to have the married name as that was now their mothers name and would be their siblings name too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    deemark wrote: »
    I did not indicate ANY attitude, I was merely offering the perspective from another point of view.

    I am quite offended by your post to be honest; you're implying that teachers make lazy assumptions based on a kid's name. I, for one, make a point of being aware of any issues in a kid's background (but I'm sure someone is going to post saying that it's none of my business) and was pointing out that the double-barrelled name in my school usually denotes separated parents. Now, if making a mental note of something and checking up on it is making lazy assumptions.....

    As for awkward questions, since when is taking a kid's circumstances and feelings into consideration a bad thing for a teacher to do? It's been a long time since I could use the words 'mother' or 'father' in class, even asking some of my students to get a note signed by 'a parent' is dodgy territory. I usually go with 'whoever is at home'. Have you ever tried to teach "mo chlann" (my family) in Irish in a minefield like that?

    And as for your third point, you go with common usage. Many students have their second name on the roll, but never use it. Likewise, the full double-barrelled name usually doesn't appear on the student's copy or work.

    Now, my school is a DEIS school with a lot of family problems e.g. half of our students would come from one parent families and other teachers may have different experiences. This is my two cents' worth; didn't expect to be attacked for it.

    I was offended - and alarmed - by your post.

    You originally posted that 99% of kids with double barrelled names denotes parents are not together, and teachers base their approach to asking "awkward" questions on this premise (even your use of "awkward" suggests a stigma of some sort which I dont understand either). That is a lazy and exclusionary approach and I would have a major problem if any teacher of my kids did this.

    The roll call - if the kids dont use their full names, thats different; but if they do and their parents do, are you saying that teachers think they know better and disregard this and leave out half the kid's name :confused:


    If you had made clear in your earlier post that the kids in the school you teach in have "a lot of family problems" (a statement of fact presumably based on something more than the 99% generalisation in your first post) then that might have provided some context. You didnt however mention this and made various statements in relation to secondary schools as a whole.

    As you say other teachers may have different experiences. I certainly hope so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    You originally posted that 99% of kids with double barrelled names denotes parents are not together, and teachers base their approach to asking "awkward" questions on this premise (even your use of "awkward" suggests a stigma of some sort which I dont understand either). That is a lazy and exclusionary approach and I would have a major problem if any teacher of my kids did this.

    The roll call - if the kids dont use their full names, thats different; but if they do and their parents do, are you saying that teachers think they know better and disregard this and leave out half the kid's name :confused:

    If you had made clear in your earlier post that the kids in the school you teach in have "a lot of family problems" (a statement of fact presumably based on something more than the 99% generalisation in your first post) then that might have provided some context. You didnt however mention this and made various statements in relation to secondary schools as a whole.

    As you say other teachers may have different experiences. I certainly hope so.

    Well, I don't have the figures to hand funnily enough, but you'll have to take my word for it. Being a DEIS school often speaks for itself. I have been teaching there a while and care and know about my students. That is precisely why I would worry about the OP giving her child a double-barrelled name. It often denotes separated parents and for the teachers who don't have the time to look up the files of every one of the 200 students they might be teaching, it could be an indication for them to do so. This is fine if the parent wants to flag it with the school.

    Let me explain "awkward" - I don't mean to imply stigma, I am referring to problems arising in class e.g. a student bursting into tears when quizzed about where his homework is and why it isn't in the house he usually lives in; a student threatening a teacher when she refused to hand back a mobile phone that had gone off in class because his dad who he hadn't seen in a year was trying to ring him or a student not writing anything for "mé féin agus mo mhuintir" (my family and I). Now, that's awkward.

    My point is - it can and does label a student (in my school, as having separated parents, in other schools as being posh).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    deemark- Is it possible, even if your child has a double barrell formally to register them soley with ONE name, so that this doesnt happen or would you have to change the name formally too. I really do not want what you are describing to happen and I have another year before school starts to sort this out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    I agree its far too indicative of the parents marital status, which doesnt seem fair imo. That's not what a child's name is about.

    It's no more indicative of the parents marital status than when the child has the mothers maiden surname.
    My daughter has my name. Anyone who knows me knows I'm single. Her having my name would indicate her father isn't on the scene, which he isn't. If she had a double barrelled name at least it would indicate he was in her life in some form.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    ash23 wrote: »
    It's no more indicative of the parents marital status and when the child has the mothers maiden surname.
    My daughter has my name. Anyone who knows me knows I'm single. Her having my name would indicate her father isn't on the scene, which he isn't. If she had a double barrelled name at least it would indicate he was in her life in some form.

    Im very torn about it myself. My one does have a double barrell. And one of the barrells is MIA. I cant stand it Im tempted to even drop my name but ds has already shown a preference. Corrects people who call him by the full double barrell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    deemark- Is it possible, even if your child has a double barrell formally to register them soley with ONE name, so that this doesnt happen or would you have to change the name formally too. I really do not want what you are describing to happen and I have another year before school starts to sort this out.

    There would be no need to change it formally, just put down the name you want used in school. There is room on the system we use for "known as" e.g. Bernard, known as Bernie. State exam results and official documents will probably match the birth cert, but for common usage, you could just drop the extra name. Depending on where you are, there could be lots of kids in the class with double-barrells.

    Really didn't mean to cause a row, freak anyone out or make anyone in my profession sound judgemental; I was just posting what was common experience in schools I have taught in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Im very torn about it myself. My one does have a double barrell. And one of the barrells is MIA. I cant stand it Im tempted to even drop my name but ds has already shown a preference. Corrects people who call him by the full double barrell.

    That's personal preference though. You personally might not like double barrell. But others don't mind it. Some prefer to do it and use both until the child decides.....it's a very personal choice, much the same as the first name someone gives a child. There are names I wouldn't dream of calling my child but others love them and vice versa.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    ash23 wrote: »
    That's personal preference though. You personally might not like double barrell. But others don't mind it. Some prefer to do it and use both until the child decides.....it's a very personal choice, much the same as the first name someone gives a child. There are names I wouldn't dream of calling my child but others love them and vice versa.

    If I move back to the US I'd have to drop one, it just wouldnt work. There is no gap between official and unofficial but I'll cross that bridge I guess when I come to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭ceegee


    I totally agree with you Sleepy although, as you know I am from the US and in the US the double barrell is reserved for the married woman.It has nothing to do with fancy families or anything like that, its a sign you are married but you dont want to give up your maiden name. Kids never do this for as long as I can remember. You take your dads name and that's it except if you are Angelina Jolie or Emilio Estevez. Its an abberration to use your mother;s name and in the state Im from, the father has rights to petition for his name to be used EXCLUSIVELY, that is how steep the tradition is.

    If you remarry and your kids have different names, that is ok too. Sometimes a child as they get older might want to change the name to the step dads, and that is a big step and usually done in specific circumstances but wouldnt be the norm.

    Sleepy, that is a noble gesture you did, but you do realise that your grandkids etc will also carry your girlfriend's name, and I suppose you are confident enough that you wont break up and have another child down the line with another woman.

    Apologies for the offtopic post but Emilio did take his dads name, while his brother uses his dads stage name. If we think double barrell names create problems imagine being in hollywood where you could have two parents with screen names added in for confusion


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ppink


    I got an invite to a pony club reunion once and it took me ages to stop laughing at it. It was sent by I assume the board of the club and all their names were at the bottom of it. There were I would say 9 or 10 names on it.......every single one of them double barelled:D.
    It made me laugh and wonder how the kids will manage...will they go treble or quadruple barelled when they marry?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭convert


    I think it really depends on the individual's situation. It's necessary for them to deal with the situation in the manner which will provide the best solution for their particular circumstances. If that means that the child would have a double-barelled surname, then so be it.

    I remember when I was a kid in the early 90s, it was extremly unusual to come across a kid with a different surname to their mother, and if it did arise, we'd always ask lots of questions as to why that was the case. The kids never seemed to be bothered by it, and just explained things as they were. They were never singled out for it, nor was there any issue made of it by the kids, because it was explained to us by the child involved. I think the adults make more of an issue out of it than kids do.

    I don't intend on changing my name when I get married, so my OH and I will just have to decide on the best solution to this scenario for our particular situation. It shouldn't matter what other people think. It's a personal decision, and once it's made for the correct reasons then there shouldn't be a problem with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    ted1 wrote: »
    Not a fan of double barrel names, I think its selfish. Do do.you expect their kids to have treble barrel. Or even quadruple barrel names

    my son has double barrle name .never beem marreyd and iv brort him up sinse baby how can i drop one surname


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭purplepug


    I have my surname on my sons birth cert as a middle name with his dads being the last name. As I am sole guardian at the moment I thought it a right decision for him to drop the fathers surname and use mine. I was advised, as I was guardian, to apply for passport with letters from play school and doctors stating common usage of my surname as his. So I did that, and have his passport as proof of his name. There is a line stating his "original" name that appears on birth cert. but now I have a recognized document all is well. Peoples circumstances change, so people need to judge less. My girls who carry their fathers surname(different from my sons) have expressed an interest in changing their surname to mine, so we all hve the same, I think they feel it important for the family unit. Their dad passed away before they were two, they are now 9. So as I said, circumstances change :) waffle over lol


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 38 TeresaDarling


    We were warned by the registrar in 2005 about the hyphen between the names so I left it out, thankfully, maybe the registrar can spot couple who will last and couples who won't

    Ours is a bit of a mad situation name wise my son was very upset about his parents having different names so I kept my married name for his sake (and I hate my maiden name)

    He was 6 when I had my daughter and got very upset at her not having the same name as us, so she is called by my married name too but has her dads name minus the hyphen on her birth cert

    For me I don't care once my kids are happy, my daughter is now 6 and uses her dads name sometimes but always my name at school because it is the same as her brothers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,865 ✭✭✭✭January


    Old thread, closed.


This discussion has been closed.
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