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New ISSF Rules

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Sparks wrote: »
    The petition is up to 227 signatures this morning since yesterday with shooters at every level from collegiate to national to international to olmypians all signing up.

    Up to 550 signatures at the moment. Quite a lot of ticked-off shooters talking about this on the net in various places.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Well clear of 800 now (and signed). The finals are the real killer for me. There are a lot of really good points being made about the kit and the actual ambiguity of the rules themselves, but the finals are what turn it from sport to spectacle (or farce, depending on whether you're an athlete). I could see there being an increase in interest in niche areas of the ISSF programme where the shooting is the same but there's no finals. Anyone for 300m? As Jen McIntosh said elsewhere, sport is about the best person there winning. If that doesn't happen, it's not a sport anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Kryten


    Resetting scores back to zero for the finals is not fair. In fact, just do away with the final and leave it as highest score wins.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Kryten wrote: »
    Resetting scores back to zero for the finals is not fair. In fact, just do away with the final and leave it as highest score wins.

    For most disciplines that'd be fair. Only one I wouldn't like it for is 50m prone (assuming the rest are decided on inner ten count) but I'd take that long before the current abominable proposition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    From [url=http:// www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=1742]the ISSF website (with permission)[/url]:
    The ISSF Administrative Council approved many changes to the 2009-2012 Rules during its most recent meeting in London in April 2012. The final editing of the rules, the formal approval of detailed rules for Finals in all Olympic Events and decisions regarding a few rules issues are not yet finished. The ISSF Administrative Council will meet again in November 2012 to approve the complete 2013-2016 ISSF Rules package with those additional rules.

    The ISSF has, however, received many requests from National Federations, coaches, athletes and industry about rule changes that will apply in 2013. Since the ISSF Council has already approved most of the 2013 rules changes, we are pleased to publish the enclosed Summary of Approved Changes in the 2013-2016 ISSF Rules. If you have any questions about any of these rule changes, please forward them directly to ISSF Headquarters.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Posted elsewhere by Jen McIntosh (shot for TeamGB in the London Games), posted with permission:
    Ok, so some of what I'm about to say may upset some people but it's my opinion, based on my experiences so I don't expect everyone to like it or agree with it. Say what you will but the following are my thoughts on the matter. (I'm also not going to comment on Pistol/Shotgun since I know nothing about them).

    1. Range scoreboards/internet service. Awesome idea. Definitely a way of bringing the sport into the 21st century... but I think it says a lot about the people in charge that it's taken them this long to think this up.

    2. Sighting time. I actually think this could be made to work and I can see the logic behind it. My only question is how they're going to make it work in 3P. I would not object to them splitting it so that you had prep/sighting time and then x amount of time to shoot each position (kind of like how the guys do it). Although I like being able to just get on with my match, I can see that the way the men's 3P is currently shot makes it easier to follow for spectators.

    3. Ties. Glad they got rid of the shoot off. It was just an added complication to an already complicated sport. Although it was fun and added an extra element, they're right - it's difficult to schedule and therefore difficult to prepare for as an athlete.

    4. Rifle rules. Thankfully, these are just a summary so we can't expect to understand exactly what they're on about because they're pretty much gibberish at the moment. But depending on the interpretation there could be some major (and expensive) problems in this. Vibration reduction system. At best, people will have to get rid of some accessories. At worst, almost every air rifle and a number of the stocks currently on the market are illegal. Could be very expensive. Air rifle pistol grip. Once again, the ISSF are proven to be run solely by old men. I had to ask myself if any of them have every actually looked at a woman when I read this rule. We have these things called breasts and while I'm very attached to mine, they do have a tendency to just get in the way. And I'm not that well endowed. I hate to think of the problems larger chested women are going to have if this rule comes in to play - it's not like they're detachable. Chest rests. Well, there's an easy way round this. Old wooden stocks anyone? Pathetic attempt to meddle and hasn't been thought through at all. Clothing stiffness and thickness testing (minimum area measurement). This rule is going to suck if you're really small... great for getting juniors involved. Not. Normal walking test. Define normal. Morons. Shoe sole contour. So new boots for everyone. Manufacturers will be pleased. My bank balance won't be. Shooting jacket left side panel (for right handed shooter). So that's a new jacket to add to my new boots and new air rifle... except that with my figure, there's no way on this planet that I'm going to be able to get a jacket to fit me if there isn't a seam there. Once again, proof that the ISSF bigwigs have never seen a woman. We have these things called hips. Along with breasts, they make tailoring shooting jackets for us a bit of a challenge. Take out those seams and it's going to become damn near impossible. Time limits. Personally, I think that's great but that's because I shoot fast so I fully appreciate that other people might struggle with the new time limits... which, from a selfish point of view is awesome Overall, I feel like the changes to the rifle rules are the ISSF just tinkering because they can. There's no real need for any of it and as I've pointed out, it's going to cause major issues for women in particular as well as causing massive financial issues for everyone involved. Nobody benefits - not even manufacturers or dealers because they are going to be left with a whole load of stock that they're not going to be able to shift.

    5. New finals rules. Now this could take a while. Firstly, I disagree completely with their reasoning. "Olympic sports today must become more dynamic, attract more fans, engage the public with more drama and provide great shows for youth, spectators, television and the media". I'm wondering if any members of the ISSF were actually at the London Olympic Games (I know they were, because I saw them... maybe they walked around with their eyes closed). In case they hadn't noticed, it was sold out. The venue was full. So there's clearly the potential there. Yes, media coverage could have been better. But I don't think it's got anything to do with the format of the matches. The broadcasters just don't have the knowledge or the experience to be able to show shooting in the best way. ISSF TV is going in the right direction but it's still missing something (maybe a commentator who knows what she's actually talking about). Now, I don't normally watch ISSF TV - most of the time, I don't need to see the finals again because I was in the range watching them live in the first place. But after I made the final in Munich, I decided to watch my final back again (the whole thing was a bit of a blur to me and my boyfriend had said that the commentary was good). So I sat down to watch it and low and behold, who was commentating but my good friend Petra Zublasing. Her commentary was brilliant. There was so much personality to it - she talked about the personalities of the shooters, their strengths and weaknesses (she was quite disparaging about my standing as well, if I remember correctly), their history (or lack of in my case). And that's when I realised what was missing. Personality. Because our sport is so introverted and so self-contained, to the outsider there's no personality in it. But there is. And that's why it's fun to watch finals if you're a shooter. Because you know the history and the personalities. And if you had a commentator who could pass that knowledge on to the spectators, it would become a lot more interesting.

    But I've gone a bit off topic... the new finals format is unfair. Some people may think it's a great idea because it gives more opportunity to shooters who didn't do quite so well in the qualification. And as a shooter who has been in that position, I can understand the appeal. I'd have got bronze in Munich under the new rules. Sure, there was some element of skill involved in that, but I finished 2 points behind 3rd - not the 0.2 points I would have been ahead under the new rules. The best three shooters on the day won the medals. That's what it's all about. You're not good enough to win a medal by shooting a good qualification? You don't deserve a medal. Under the new rules, Nicco wouldn't even have medalled in London - despite shooting a score 8 points better than the guy in 2nd and 12 points better than the guy in 8th. Sport is about the best person winning. There's no two ways about that. And what the ISSF haven't realised, in the obsession with trying to attract media attention, is that they're making it even harder for grassroots sports. This new format of final demands to be shot on electronic targets which many clubs (and even some countries) don't have the facilities for. Much as we may like for there to be electronics in every club/range in the world, that just isn't the case and this rule would make the sport even less accessible to new shooters. Also, at domestic level, the gap between first and eighth can but much greater than the one or two points that you see at World Cups. But is it really fair that at a national championships, someone can go in ten, twenty or even thirty points in front and that count for nothing?

    http://www.petitiono...F/petition.html

    I have signed this petition and I think it makes an interesting point.

    "We as the shooters and coaches around the world, appreciate the effort of the ISSF in order to make shooting a better sport but at the same time we believe that such important decisions should not be taken without the agreement of the majority of shooters and coaches."

    This is our sport and as such we should have a say in how it's run. I encourage anyone and everyone to sign this petition - or at least, to read the rather eloquent points made my Nicco and Rajmond. Ours is one of the oldest sports in the modern Olympics... let us try and keep the essence of it in tact


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭MiGiD


    I have to agree with Jen's comments on the stupid vague seam rule. Really not written with girls in mind (or boys with an atypical shape). And while I haven't measured how far out my pistol grip goes I'm pretty sure I have to be close to the limit. To quote Jen "We have these things called breasts and while I'm very attached to mine, they do have a tendency to just get in the way."

    I must say if all the rules are passed as they are currently written (which they hopefully won't) I am not going to continue in rifle shooting. Simple. I can't afford the lump sum to get a new suit, rifle and boots. Just not going to happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 shooter_10.9


    Shooting Friends,

    Many of you may know that the ISSF have been working hard to improve our sport of shooting, and I really appreciate their efforts in trying to achieve this.
    However, with all due to respect to some of their decisions, I have some strong concerns over some of the rules that are proposed to be implemented in the period 2013-2016, a copy of which can be found on the ISSF website here.
    Some of you may not appreciate what I am about to say, but please do understand that these are only my opinions which I feel I can share with other shooters, coaches or parents of young shooters out there, without any disrespect to anyone in particular.
    These rules are just a summary so it is pretty hard to make any sense of them. But from my interpretation there could be some major, expensive changes required. I will only be talking about the rifle rules, since I shoot rifle, and more importantly, know almost nothing about pistol or shotgun.
    I will talk about the financial implications of these rules and the effect they will have on the young, aspiring junior shooters aiming to reach the top of the sport.


    Rifle Rules

    1) Vibration Reduction Systems. The installation of any type of vibration reduction system in or on the rifle is prohibited.
    Further details will be needed on this rule, as nothing is clear and understandable as it currently stands. From whatever sense I have made of this rule, it has the potential of making almost all the air rifles of the modern day illegal. All modern air rifles incorporate the “absorber” or “stabilizer” systems. So, if this rule comes into play, almost all the competitive shooter in the world will need a new rifle to replace their currently “illegal” one.

    2) Chest Rests. Any attachments (Brustanlagen) projecting forward from the lower portion of the butt plate are prohibited.
    To further add to the pain inflicted by the above rule, ISSF are now banning the use of chest rests. This adds to our misery, as again, many air rifles would have to be altered/replaced to make them legal by removing the chest rests.

    3) Shoe Sole Contour. The sole must follow the external curvature of the shoe and may not extend more than 5.0 mm beyond the external dimensions of the shoe at any point. Toe extensions or heels that are cut square or flat are not permitted.
    This is another rule which possibly eliminates almost all brands of boots, labeling them as “illegal”. Great! So now we’ve not only got to get a new air rifle, but a new pair of boots too.

    4) Shooting Jacket Left Side Panel (right handed shooter). The construction of the side panel of the jacket may not have any seam that lies under the support arm in the standing position.
    Why? Without a seam how are we going to get the jackets to fit our shooters?
    Fair enough this rule may not be having much of an effect on men, but it is almost sure to cause problems for almost all the female shooters.
    This is a funny rule, which only suggests to me that the ISSF rule-makers have probably never come across a woman in their life. Sounds strange don’t you think, considering there are two rifle events dedicated to the ladies in the Olympics?
    Surely they do not understand that women are physically different to men in several ways, and, well, they fit their jackets different to the men. So how are we going to fit the jackets to the ladies?
    Buying a new jacket that would not fit you as well is probably the answer the ISSF would give.
    This is appalling and honestly there is only one word which comes to mind – discrimination!

    So, we’ve got a new air rifle, a jacket (maybe trousers) and a pair of boots. Who is happy? The manufacturers are of course. But our bank balances, definitely not! In fact, even the manufacturers and dealers would not be too happy about these changes, as they would have a lot of “illegal” stock that no one would buy any longer.



    Juniors

    Now, I believe that young, fresh blood and soul injects life into a sport. Why wouldn’t it? Juniors are the future of any sport. But have ISSF given this a thought? These rule changes may have an adverse effect on the young shooters. I have no idea how ISSF feel, but I feel they are doing a brilliant job at discouraging young shooters from participating.

    Who would spend another few grand re-equipping themselves when they know that in the next 4 years they will have to do the same, all over again???
    I am a junior and am having second thoughts about continuing the sport if the rule changes bring with them such financial problems - thank you ISSF!
    I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

    ‘Inspire a generation’ was the motto of the London Games, and I’m sure ISSF would feel they are doing just that. I’m sorry, but I beg to differ!

    Good shooting!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    Any developments on this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Thirdfox wrote: »
    Any developments on this?

    From elsewhere:
    RobinC wrote:
    My wife and I have just returned from shooting in Germany and Austria (this morning!)and including time spent at MEC for coaching. These proposals have been about over there last week and have caused a bit of a bombshell. There is a lot of opposition, and almost no one there seems to understand the meaning or interpretation, one rule even mixes English and German language!
    The drafting is poor and ambigious, the vibration reducing system is a complete mystery, it says "rifle" but does not define what type, if air they believe it will ban all recoiless rifles including the old ones such as the FWB 300 and the Original 75 and would be un enforcable with out dismantling to verify! The people I saw believed it referred to smallbore rifles, and Maik Eckhart told me that Anschutz had seen the drafts and were not concerned so they think its smallbore.
    The German federation has seen the drafts and has stated that if the rules become official they will not use them for domestic events and championships for at least a year.
    My personal view is that they will make no difference to the small number of elite, but will drive the club shooter further away from national championships.
    Robin
    KennyB wrote:
    I spoke to Dave Goodfellow about the Vibration Control section and he said he was as surprised as anyone when he read about it - it hadn't been discussed in committee and seems to come straight from Willi Grill.


    RobinC wrote:
    for those that have not seen it, there is a communique from the ISSF to national bodies worded that these proposals have been agreed by the excecutive committee, etc, and it is being distributed to those national bodies so they may prepare how they comply with them!!!!!

    So as far as the ISSF is concerned these are the new rules!!!!

    I have just returned to the UK from a shooting trip in Germany and of all I met including two major gun manufacturers, a major accessory manufacturer,shooters and prominent people in German shooting none who had been consulted or knew about these proposalss until they appeared on the internet last week. All disagree with most of these proposals. I was told that the German federation has said that it will not enforce these proposals in their domestic competion next year.

    If this proposal is allowed to become rules it will do nothing to improve the sport for the elite or for TV but will aid the decline in lower levels of club and national shooting.
    The petition is only against the finals procedure, to protect our sport we must all object and swamp the ISSF e mails with objections, just leave the rules as they are and enforce them correctly.
    Robin


    There are other discussions happening all over the place, offline and online, but my French, German and Polish are nonexistant so I'm having trouble following some of them :D
    From what I can tell, the translations of the summaries for other countries are poor if not incomplete, and nowhere does anyone have a good handle on what's meant by items like the Vibration Reduction System. There are comments here and there that the athletes committee, coaches committee and other committees were unable to get to discuss these changes despite trying; I've heard from somewhere that Debevec resigned over that, but I've not seen it confirmed anywhere.

    ISSF appear to have decided that the rules they've drafted won't be discussed but are final and will be complied with. In the past, that attitude has led to some pretty high-level ructions; the European Shooting Confederation itself was very vocal in condemning them last time this came up (over banning shooting trousers a few years ago).

    In short, dumbass idea looks to be rammed through by a committee whose thinking smells a lot like full-on siege mentality. Not good news so far. :(


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    The ESC (European Shooting Confederation) are now looking for comments (not just from NGBs but from individual shooters too) and are responding to them, unlike ISSF:

    18_9_2012_b.png

    ps. I've sent them the link to this thread, so behave :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Received by email:
    Thank you for your inquiry regarding the new ISSF rule prohibiting "vibration reduction systems."

    The ISSF is still working on the final wording of this rule, but the ISSF intent is to prohibit the use of any device or system that would artificially reduce, slow or control the movements or oscillations of a rifle or pistol before the shot is fired. This rule is intended to preclude the application of anti-vibration technology now used in photography, for example, to rifle or pistol shooting This rule will not affect passive means of controlling gun movements such as barrel weights and it will not affect any existing technology that stabilizes the rifle or pistol after the shot is fired. It should also be noted that ISSF Pistol and Rifle Rules already prohibit the use of compensators, muzzle brakes or other similar devices that could control how the rifle or pistol recoils during the shot.

    On this basis, the compensators on air rifles and pistol are not activated until the shot is fired and would remain legal. Barrel tuning and bedding systems have nothing to do with rifle movements before the shot and would not be affected. Passive systems like barrel weights are specifically excluded. Barrel ports on rapid fire pistol have been illegal for several years and this new regulation would not change that.

    With best regards,
    Gary Anderson
    ISSF Vice President


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    Only three people responded?

    I had no idea that these comments would be published publicly...

    Well, I stand by my comments - though I should note that my ranking has dropped since that letter was sent!

    edit: I am somewhat angry that they gave no indication that these letters would be publicly available on their call for submissions. If they could have even emailed me beforehand to confirm whether I would object to making public my comments or not it would be a much more considerate way of doing things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I'd say a lot more than three people responded (I know I did, for one) but I guess they only published a subset of the letters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    Well - what's done is done.

    I wonder why they chose my comment though? Maybe they think my comment addressed a different issue/consideration (cost to participants, especially at uni/local level) as opposed to the other ones that talked about the finals formats.

    Let's see what happens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    By email just now:
    Here is the final version of the rule:
    8.4.1.6 Movement or Oscillation Reduction Systems. Any device, mechanism or system that actively reduces, slows or minimizes pistol oscillations or movements before the shot is released is prohibited.

    This new rule will not prohibit any feature on current rifles and pistols as they are now designed and produced because this new rule is concerned with systems that might be used to control pistol movements BEFORE the shot.
    With best regards,
    Gary Anderson


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    So it's now pistols only? I mean, I presume that's (yet another) oversight, but come on! It's not like they've not had time to actually make this clear and comprehensive!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I think that's actually the rule from the pistol section IWM :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    Any other changes?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I dunno thirdfox, that was the entire content of the email. I did follow up:
    Thanks for the reply Mr.Anderson; that rule does look workable (though for the record, without the word "actively", the phrase "before the shot is released" would not have prevented static weights from being banned; but I'm sure this point was raised earlier).
    I've passed this on to other Irish ISSF shooters.
    Is there a timetable for when the other rules will be finalised and released? Will there be a period of time for comment and review?
    With regards,

    And got this response:
    The 2013 ISSF Rules will be presented to the ISSF Administrative Council for final approval on 13 November. Within a couple of weeks after that, the new rules should be posted on the ISSF website where a complete edition of the rules will be available.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    From the ISSF Website, with permission:
    REPORT ABOUT ISSF EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE AND ISSF ADMINISTRATIVE COUNCIL MEETING

    On 12 and 13 November 2012 the ISSF Executive Committee and the ISSF Administrative Council met for their second meetings this year in Acapulco, MEX. These meetings dealt with the completion of the Technical Rules for the next Olympic Cycle 2013 to 2016. During these very important meetings the detailed rules for the Finals in all Olympic Events as of 1 January 2013 were discussed and finalized. Many discussions with athletes and coaches regarding the new rules helped to develop excellent solutions and some compromises that will help the shooting sport move forward in reaching one of his goals in becoming a more spectator and media friendly sport. We are very pleased that all decisions to approve the new technical and Finals rules were unanimous. This once again shows that the shooting sport is united and works for the benefit of the sport and the Olympic Movement.

    The new rules will be published in the next days on the ISSF website and ISSF looks forward to using the new rules in all 2013 Championships.

    ...continues

    Hmmmm. That's a few miles more upbeat than the general reception amongst most shooters would have allowed for, I would warrant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭MiGiD


    National Federations now have the new rules and they're to be published on the ISSF website this week


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Mr.Flibble


    Sparks wrote: »
    Hmmmm. That's a few miles more upbeat than the general reception amongst most shooters would have allowed for, I would warrant.


    I think "unanimous" must lose or gain something in translation from the Mexican.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Mr.Flibble wrote: »
    I think "unanimous" must lose or gain something in translation from the Mexican.

    Feckin' Babelfish...


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    From the ISSF website, with permission:
    NEW ISSF 2013-2016 RULES: COMPETITIONS WILL START FROM ZERO, AND END IN A DUEL

    After more than two years of work by ISSF bodies, the ISSF Administrative Council unanimously approved the new ISSF rules on 13 November 2012, that open a new chapter for the Shooting Sport Olympic events.

    The new rules feature many important changes designed to increase Shooting’s appeal to youth and make it more spectator and media friendly, as well as to keep competitions fair and equal.

    New Shooting Finals start from zero, feature eliminations, and end up in a duel
    Major changes include new Finals for all Olympic events. The new rules contain new Finals formats for all Olympic events where all finalists start from zero. This means that qualification’s score will not be carried into the final anymore, making the scoring system immediately understandable for the spectators.Furthermore, all Finals feature eliminations, and end with duels between the two best athletes to decide the gold and silver medals. This step was taken to engage a worldwide public by attracting spectators and fans through an appealing and easily understandable competition format. Detailed rules for all new Finals are included in the 2013 Rules which are already published on the ISSF website. These new Finals will be used in all 2013 ISSF Championships. The new ISSF Rules also include small increases in difficulty in Skeet and Double Trap, the separation of sighting and match firing in 10m and 50m rifle and pistol events, a new position order for 50m Rifle 3 Positions events and a provisional test of decimal scoring for 10m Air Rifle and 50m Prone Rifle events. The Final for the 50m Rifle 3 Positions events is now a 3 Positions Final, not a one-position Final like it use to be, and will include changing times from one position to the other. New skill elements like reverse doubles on stations 3 and 5 in Skeet and making rapid position changes in 3-position rifle Finals will add interest. Both 25m Pistol Finals will use hit-miss scoring to encourage more spontaneous spectator reactions.

    The entire ISSF family participated in the development of new Rules
    The ISSF tried to involve the entire ISSF family in developing the 2013 ISSF Rules. ISSF Section Committees not only made initial proposals, but they were given multiple opportunities to review rules drafts. The Athletes and Coaches Committees not only contributed ideas, but were involved in evaluating the rules. Elite athletes and national coaches were especially active in developing the new Finals Rules. In some cases, difficult compromises had to be worked out to meet the diverse aims of these vital ISSF constituent groups. The ISSF is especially pleased that so many National Federations, industry members, athletes, coaches and even shooting fans were able to participate in making the 2013 ISSF Rules and help make the new rules stronger and more effective.

    ...

    Decimal Scoring for 10m Air Rifle and 50m Prone Rifle.
    With so many highly skilled athletes competing in these events today, it has become even more important to have qualification competitions that truly advance the best athletes to the Finals. Making it to the final is frequently a matter of one shot that scores a 10.0 or a 9.9; the difference between making or not making a Final can be less than one-fourth of a millimeter on that one shot. Decimal scoring virtually eliminates the decisive role that one close shot can play in deciding finalists and provides a far more accurate way to decide the best shooters in the qualification. The ISSF plans to use decimal scoring in the 10m Air Rifle Men, 10m Air Rifle Women and 50m Prone Rifle Men events in the 2013 World Cups. This will be evaluated at the end of the 2013 Championship season and decisions will then be made on whether to use decimal scoring for those events on a permanent basis or to use decimal scoring for all 10m and 50m elimination and qualification competitions. Decimal scoring requires either electronic scoring targets or electronic scoring for paper targets. National federations or shooting clubs are not required to use decimal scoring, but many that have electronic scoring available will find that it adds fairness and interest to these events. In addition to these changes, the position order in 50m 3 Positions Rifle is changed from prone-standing-kneeling to kneeling-prone-standing to bring the qualification order in line with the order that will be followed in 3-position rifle Finals.

    Shotgun events are changing
    Both Skeet and Double Trap qualification rounds have changes designed to add additional difficulty to these events that now have so many high scores. The target throwing distance in Skeet is increased from 66m +/- 1m to 68m +/- 1m. In addition, the firing order is changed so that the two station 4 doubles will be fired after station 7 and just before station 8. This means that the most difficult targets must be shot near the end of a round of Skeet instead of in the middle. Double Trap qualification is changed from three series of 50 targets (25 pair) or three series of 40 targets for women to five series of 30 targets (15 pair) for men and four series of 30 targets for women. What makes Double Trap more difficult is that random schemes will now be used to determine the target combinations that are thrown (scheme A, B or C).

    Changes in Rifle Equipment Rules
    The 2013 Rules include many small changes regarding rifle clothing and equipment. The ISSF objective in adopting these changes is two-fold: 1) to limit the use of performance-enhancing clothing and equipment while maximizing the tests of skill, training and performance in rifle events, and 2) to keep competition conditions as equal as possible for all rifle shooters. These changes were made because the ISSF feels recent trends in the development of Rifle clothing, equipment and accessories are in danger of going too far in providing performance-enhancing capabilities. The 2013 ISSF Rules place reasonable limits on how far the development of performance-enhancing rifle equipment can go.

    Separate Sighting and Match Firing Periods
    Sighting shots are part of the pre-competition warm-up process in Shooting. The new rules require sighting shots to be fired in a 15-minute “Preparation and Sighting Period” before competition or match firing starts. This new change will eliminate confusion for spectators, by completing warm-ups before the competition starts.

    New ISSF Rulebook
    The new 2013 ISSF Rulebook, which will be effective from the 1st of January 2013 and used for all the 2013 ISSF World Cup Stages, is available for download at: http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/rules/english_rulebook.ashx

    FFS. I got hooked on the sport because it's basicly competing against yourself; and they go and turn it into a completely different sport in the finals. :mad: Idiots :mad: I mean, if you want to shoot the Bianchi Cup, go shoot the Bianchi Cup, don't **** over a different sport to try to emulate one that people go to you for an alternative to in the first place!

    Gah...


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    I can't say I like it. Also, starting the 3x40 in kneeling? That's going to be weird... Also the decimal scoring seems odd. Oh well, 300m is where the sport still exists I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Some reasoning included in this letter. Can't say I agree with most of it, though the reasoning for the seperate sighting/match times seems reasonable enough. Mind you, the attitude and tone throughout the entire letter, not to mention the outright deception that the "entire ISSF Family"* was involved is something that ought to result in someone at the top table being given a clip round the ear. :mad:


    *only true if you are *very* specific about who you regard as "the ISSF Family", and define it as everyone on a committee wearing a blazer and who hasn't actually shot in the past decade... as the protest resignations from the Athlete's Committee showed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    From the ESC's homepage:
    Sheffield, 29 November 2012

    Dear shooters and coaches,
    First of all I would like to thank you for your support to the ISSF “back to zero rule” petition: more than 2000
    signatures and almost 20 Olympic champions. It was a great result. Our aim was to make our voices heard and become an
    active part of the changing rule process, and thanks to your tremendous help we succeeded. In this regard I would like to
    apologize for my late communication of recent events but unfortunately I could not extrapolate all the email addresses
    from the Petition website and get in touch with all of you. I am thankful to President Lisin that allowed me to use the
    European Shooting home page.

    As you probably know, a couple of days after I put the petition online I was invited by ISSF to participate in the new
    3p final test in Munich that had previously been scheduled for 10th-12th October. I accepted their offer as I felt that,
    as well as gaining first hand experience of the new format, I would also have the opportunity to meet with and exchange
    views and opinions with the ISSF leaders. Those present included Secretary Franz Schreiber, Vice-President Gary Anderson
    and some members of the Technical Commission. Also present were other invited international shooters including myself,
    several from the German team, the American Jason Parker, the Belarus Shcherbatsevich and the Swiss shooters Beyeler and
    Loretan.

    Although the meeting was constructive, our main concern with the new format was the “back to zero rule”. The reason
    for this is because of the imbalance it creates between luck and skill. However the ISSF would not negotiate their
    position on the “back to zero rule” telling us that such decision was already made and out of the question. In
    view of this we pressed for an increase in the number of shots in the final since the more we shoot the less the luck
    component is decisive.

    After two days of frank and open discussion this consensus was hard won with both sides compromising on positions on
    which they felt strongly. The final decision was the following:
    3p final: 45 (15x3) shots, increased from 30 (previous proposal)
    All other disciplines: 20, increased from 10

    At the meeting in October I also suggested the following changes might improve participant and spectator experience -­

    ‐ FOR THE SHOOTER: introduction of the decimal scores in the qualification round. At present the qualification process
    in order to gain access to the final is not sensitive enough for air rifle and prone. For example the difference between
    making the final and not making the final is often so small that it is as likely to have arisen by chance as by skill.
    The final score could just be the difference between shooting a 9.9 rather than a 10.0. In order to provide evidence
    for this proposal I collected all the World Cup rankings of the last Olympic cycle and calculated the average number of
    shooters that did not qualify for the final but scored within 1 point from the last finalist. Air rifle men and women and
    prone were by far the most problematic events (an average of 10 shooters out of the final but within 1 point in air rifle
    and an average of 7 shooters in prone, all the others event had less than 5 shooters).

    ‐ FOR THE MEDIA: implementation of technology such as a heart rate monitor and/or tracking devices for showing the
    aiming trace. The way we present ourselves is as important as the format we use, and so far we are not particularly
    engaging on television, regardless of the format.

    Mr. Schreiber and Mr. Anderson appeared interested in both the above proposals, admitting that these two points have
    already been taken into consideration by the ISSF council.

    The 2013 will be a very interesting season in order to evaluate pros and cons of the ‘decimal’ qualification round
    and hopefully introduce new technologies. However, I would like to propose that this is just the beginning of a new phase
    of development in competition shooting in which the evaluation of the proposed changes over the coming years results
    from the assessment of participant, organizer, media and spectator experiences. In this regard I believe that a solid
    collaboration between athletes, coaches and the Federation is essential for the future of our sport.

    Thanks again for your support and I wish everybody a successful (and fun) 2013 season.
    Sincerely,
    Nicco Campriani


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