Dunnes Stores banning Animal charities...

MyKeyG · 21-01-2013 5:58pm

debabyjesus wrote: »

My definition of being 'chugged' is any situation where you are directly faced with someone asking for money which you didn't intend to be in.

In all my years of bag packing or being at a checkout where bag packers are operating I have never 'asked' or been 'asked' for money. A bag packer has never obstructed me in order to ask for money, a bag packer has never asked me about my social habits in order to deduce that I should be able to afford to make payment, a bag packer has never asked for my bank account details, a bag packer has never called out after me when I walk away having refused to make a donation reminding me of the importance of the charity in question.

MyKeyG · 21-01-2013 5:59pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Charity begins at home

So does animal abuse. Maybe you should think about that.

meoklmrk91 · 21-01-2013 6:23pm

My local animal charity does amazing work, better than that they are very respectful of how they collect funds. They are not in your face.

Having spent time there they are every bit as much a people charity as they are an animal charity. When someone is surrending their much loved pet, sobbing, because they can longer provide a home due to moving into a nursery home, going into hospice or due to the death of the primary Carer people get to know that despite how hard it is their animal will be cared for and a new home will be found for them, I have witnessed this and seen how wonderful the staff are, offering a cup of tea, listening to their stories about how much they love their pet.

Also volunteers come from all walks if life and everyone who wants to help is accepted, these include people who wouldn't be able to volunteer elsewhere, for whatever reason, some people are very isolated and it is great that they have the chance to reach out to other people all while helping the animals.

I fully agree with dunnes policy of local charities only, but I believe that the best local charity in my area is an animal charity. I wonder will GAA clubs still be allowed to fundraise despite the fact that they are not a charity.

People say humans come before animals, and yes in fairness they do, but I think one of the most human things you can do is to help an animal. I won't be shopping at dunnes and plan to send them an email telling them so and why.

21-01-2013 8:23pm

My only objection to bag packing is that it forces you to opt-out, rather than allowing you to decide to opt in. I don't like decisions being presented to me in that way, especially by the St. Patricks Ceili Tap Dancing School of Hurlers or whatever.

On principle I refuse to let anyone pack my bags, though I do often choose to donate if I consider it a worthy cause. I resent being cornered into making those decisions though.

Collect outside, without actually accosting the customers so they have a choice, but don't position yourself in their space and force them to either be uncomfortably assertive or unwilling donors.

MyKeyG · 22-01-2013 1:11pm

Candie wrote: »

On principle I refuse to let anyone pack my bags, though I do often choose to donate if I consider it a worthy cause. I resent being cornered into making those decisions though.

Feeling that you're being cornered and actually being cornered are to completely different things. I never let people pack my bags and I only give something if I have it. Likewise I judge nobody for doing the same.

The fact of the matter is, this money is needed. It's as simple as that, perfectly healthy animals are being put down left right and center and all because of the people that abused them. It's all well and good for the big charities who can advertise or do actually ask people for continued monthly donations.

Bag packing and flag selling are the only way the small charity can make anything and believe me we make very little at that.

22-01-2013 1:15pm

MyKeyG wrote: »

Feeling that you're being cornered and actually being cornered are to completely different things. I never let people pack my bags and I only give something if I have it. Likewise I judge nobody for doing the same.

The fact of the matter is, this money is needed. It's as simple as that, perfectly healthy animals are being put down left right and center and all because of the people that abused them. It's all well and good for the big charities who can advertise or do actually ask people for continued monthly donations.

Bag packing and flag selling are the only way the small charity can make anything and believe me we make very little at that.

Hmm. Did I actually say anything to the contrary?

I feel cornered if someone is invading space that should be left free for me to operate unhindered. Someone standing at the end of the conveyor belt is doing that.

I'm sure its difficult to raise money, but that is completely aside to my complaints about that sort of fund raising.

MyKeyG · 22-01-2013 1:34pm

Candie wrote: »

Hmm. Did I actually say anything to the contrary?

I never claimed you did. I argued a point you made and then continued my post to the rest of the board in general. That's why I used the quote option. Had you said anything to directly prompt anything else I said I would have quoted that too.

I feel cornered if someone is invading space that should be left free for me to operate unhindered. Someone standing at the end of the conveyor belt is doing that.

I'm sure its difficult to raise money, but that is completely aside to my complaints about that sort of fund raising.

The topic of this thread is animal charities in general being banned, which is what I'm disputing. By your rational people collecting for cancer, cystic fibrosis, cerebral palsy etc are also a hindrance and an obstruction, or space invaders as you put it? But that's not the argument here. If you dislike charities operating at bagging areas in general then that's your prerogative. The issue here is that animal charities are being singled out.

<To the thread>
In my own humble opinion, the arguments on this thread are weak put on balance to how much charity is needed. Go and see a healthy dog put down and then come back and tell me which is the real inconvenience.

I believe animal charity work is not as important as the other charities I mentioned but lesser importance does not equal NO importance.

22-01-2013 1:39pm

MyKeyG wrote: »

I believe animal charity work is not as important as the other charities I mentioned but lesser importance does not equal NO importance.

In a recession where people prioritise extra expenditure in order of importance, and given your view that animal charities are of lesser importance than the others you mentioned, maybe Dunnes have made the right decision.

I wouldn't agree, I think its all in or all out and I'd prefer all out.

MyKeyG · 22-01-2013 1:52pm

Candie wrote: »

In a recession where people prioritise extra expenditure in order of importance, and given your view that animal charities are of lesser importance than the others you mentioned, maybe Dunnes have made the right decision.

I wouldn't agree, I think its all in or all out and I'd prefer all out.

Well I clearly stated lesser importance does not equal no importance. Dunnes have in essence said it's of no importance. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree priority in the recession is an excuse. People were more than happy to give to us when we did it before Christmas and not because they felt obliged. They engaged us in conversation regarding the charity and commended it. I had two people who requested I not pack their bag and they still donated. I had a few people who let me do it and didn't donate. I don't see the big deal.

By the way a number of tills are required to be left unmanned for people who don't wish to avail of the service. So there really is no excuse.

Tar.Aldarion · 22-01-2013 2:14pm

I don't get how they allow things like sports clubs and dance clubs etc to collect and not animal charities. Animal charities aren't generally paid chuggers but people who actually care about what they are doing and often house/pay for these animals themselves. They also get no government funding and so on. I've never even been asked by them for money, it's always teh paid aggressive chuggers that are harassing people.

2rkehij30qtza5 · 22-01-2013 2:37pm

Candie wrote: »

My only objection to bag packing is that it forces you to opt-out, rather than allowing you to decide to opt in. I don't like decisions being presented to me in that way, especially by the St. Patricks Ceili Tap Dancing School of Hurlers or whatever.

On principle I refuse to let anyone pack my bags, though I do often choose to donate if I consider it a worthy cause. I resent being cornered into making those decisions though.

Collect outside, without actually accosting the customers so they have a choice, but don't position yourself in their space and force them to either be uncomfortably assertive or unwilling donors.

I couldn't agree more, I feel the same way as this.

Pawwed Rig · 22-01-2013 2:49pm

lala88 wrote: »

Sharks can stand up for themselves

They can't actually. Type Shark Finning into google and you will see some horror.

Having said that if there was a 1 on 1 fight in the water I will back the shark every time:D

The Corinthian · 22-01-2013 6:46pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Type Shark Finning into google and you will see some horror.

I'd love some shark fin soup now, after seeing that.

Bard · 24-01-2013 9:34am

Dunnes have every right to ban whoever they like from collecting outside their privately owned stores for whatever reason they like and I'd have no objection to them banning the whole bloody lot of the annoying chuggers.

Unfortunately, now they've attracted the ire of the wrong kind of protesters, as that ignorant militant shock-factor protest group "ARAN" plan on demonstrating at their head office today. These are the group who covered members in fake blood on Dublin's O'Connell Street and staged a pretend murder in a Cork street to ram their message home. They aim to shock, crave publicity and do little more to further any animal charity cause.

This kind of crap should be actively discouraged as much as possible. They're even hijacking Dunnes' own facebook page with their nasty comments now.

rubadub · 24-01-2013 2:47pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Have to admit, the ones that get on my wick in the local Tesco are the local "dance schools" that sexualise their 6 year olds, dressing them like porn starlets in full make-up.

repsol wrote: »

What a bunch of miserable tightarses! Most bag packers I have seen are young kids.Regardless of age they are giving their time up for a good cause.You or someone you love may have Cancer or whatever they are collecting for some day.

Yes, lots are young kids, which some would think is far far worse. I am not sure if I have ever seen kids collecting for charities, not sure if its allowed legally? would it be considered child labour if they got commission like so many adult collectors. If they are allowed, maybe this is why charities might prefer them, cheap/free child labour.

Most kids I see are funding holidays for themselves, or trying to fund for some club they go to. So instead of the parents paying for, or begging for this money themselves, they put the cute kids knowing they are more likely to be given money. It is not much different from parents putting kids out on the street begging, except they have a GAA jersey on and instead of having a sign saying/insinuating "my parents can't afford food, please give me money" it is "my parents can't afford my holiday/new sports equipment, please give me money".

Candie wrote: »

Collect outside, without actually accosting the customers so they have a choice

This is probably illegal for many of them, as I doubt many have the required permits.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0024/sec0247.html#sec247

Children Act, 2001
Begging.

247.—(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she causes or procures a child or, having the custody, charge or care of a child, allows the child to be in any street or public place, or to make house to house visits, for the purpose of begging or receiving alms or of inducing the giving of alms (whether or not there is any pretence of singing, playing, performing, offering anything for sale or otherwise).

(2) If a person who has the custody, charge or care of a child is charged with an offence under this section, and it is proved that the child was in any street, public place or house for any purpose referred to in subsection (1), the person shall be presumed to have allowed the child to be in the street, public place or house for that purpose, unless the contrary is proved.

(3) A person found guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—

(a) in the case of a first offence, £250, or

(b) in the case of a second or any subsequent offence, £500.

(4) In this section—

“house” includes any building occupied for residential or business purposes and any part of a building so occupied;

“public place” means any place to which the public have or are permitted to have access whether as of right or by permission and whether on payment or without payment;

“street” includes any road, bridge, lane, footway, subway, square, alley or passage, whether a thoroughfare or not, which is for the time being open to the public, and any ground or carpark adjoining and open to a street shall be treated as forming part of a street.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0005/sec0005.html#sec5

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 2011

(2) For the purposes of this Act, a person begs if—

(a) other than in accordance with a licence, permit or authorisation (howsoever described) granted by or under an enactment, he or she requests or solicits money or goods from another person or other persons, or

(b) while in a private place without the consent of the owner or occupier of the private place, he or she requests or solicits money or goods from another person or other persons.

Offence to direct or organise begging.

5.— (1) A person who—

(a) controls or directs the actions of another person for the purposes of begging,

(b) organises or is materially involved in the organisation of begging by another person,

(c) forces another person to beg, or

(d) otherwise causes another person to beg,

is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—

(a) on summary conviction to a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €200,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both

Maybe those beggars who get moved on beside cash machines should simply don a GAA Jersey.

sparkling sea · 24-01-2013 6:20pm

Charity bag packers should be banned from the main shop floor, especially in the current ecomonic climate. Lots of people don't have money, they are depressed enough about the situation they find themselves in.

Many people have to search through purses, bags, pockets etc before they go to the shops and they worry about having enough money to pay for their shopping.These days people often don't have enough money for their few small iteams and its bad enough to see people putting back things they cant afford, but it must be even more embarassing with a charity bag packer standing at the end of a till.

Charities should collect in foyers only, they shouldn't be allowed on the main shop floor. People should not be manipulated or even just made feel uncomfortable by charities - it's wrong and it should be stopped

Pumpkinseeds · 22-06-2013 8:47pm

I've bag packed in Dunnes for a local animal charity that helps animals of all kinds all over the county. All of the money goes on the animals needs as everyone involved volunteers their time. The bag pack is a huge source of income and the loss of the Dunnes bag pack has had a massive impact on rescues. As another poster pointed out, rescues regularly collect abandoned animals from supermarket car parks.

Dunnes received many complaints varying from online petitions, written complaints, emails and phone calls. All of which I tried myself, I have never received a response and I know of nobody else that did either. When I phoned head office I was told that it is there policy not to take calls of complaint. Dunnes are happy to ignore their customers when it suits them.

There is a very simple solution for reducing the number of collections, you only allow collections by registered charities and if you want to be stricter, only registered charities that benefit your community. Dunnes will let anyone collect except animal charities.

The ban on animal charities bag packing seems to stem back to an incident in Galway where a nut job who was refused a cat by an independent rescue decided to hold a protest outside Dunnes while that charity where doing a bag pack. Said nut job comes from a prominent Galway family, who as far as I'm aware, distanced themselves from the whole sordid incident. Sadly one cnut has been allowed to end a much needed source of income for charities.

babygirlz · 30-06-2013 9:57pm

Why is this been bumped up again, have we not had enough of it at this stage?

Tar.Aldarion · 01-07-2013 10:14am

Yet you bump it over a week later

NurseBridie · 01-07-2013 10:44am

Thanks for the update Pumpkinseeds, I stopped shopping in Dunnes once I heard about this ban and refuse to open my mailings from Dunnes and was wondering was there any update after having signed petitions. I wonder if I protested against any organisation that was bag packing would Dunnes ban them also?

MyKeyG · 16-10-2014 12:46am

sparkling sea wrote: »

Charities should collect in foyers only, they shouldn't be allowed on the main shop floor. People should not be manipulated or even just made feel uncomfortable by charities - it's wrong and it should be stopped

So you prefer chuggers who stand on streets and in foyers physically obstructing you to query your monthly vice habits in order to convince you that you can spend more on their charity if you cut back on your weekly tipple as opposed to someone who stands at the end of a till wearing a Santa hat with a bucket in front of them not pressuring anyone to give anything?

Pat Mustard · 16-10-2014 1:04am

The post to which you have replied was made 1 year and 9 months previously.

brandnewaward · 16-10-2014 2:11am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I fupping hate bag packers in supermarkets. I'm very fussy about what goes in to which bag . I actively avoid tills with packers on them. I wish they were all banned. They can just leave the bucket on the end of the till and I'll put money in it if I have spare change and I like who its for.

I always use the auld debit card if theres a bag packer at the till , use the "ive no cash mate" line....:D

ancapailldorcha · 17-10-2014 2:31pm

brandnewaward wrote: »

I always use the auld debit card if theres a bag packer at the till , use the "ive no cash mate" line....:D

I shouldn't have to lie to defend myself.

It happened to me once in Oxford. It seems to be endemic in Ireland. Regarding the incident in question, the guy commented on my Rammstein T-shirt to which I politely informed him that he was welcome to help me pack but that I would not be making a donation. Seemed happy enough to help but as Candie said earlier, I'd have preferred the opportunity to opt in.

Dunnes Stores banning Animal charities...

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