Meaning of life?

RichieO · 06-10-2014 11:28am #1

The meaning of life.

A question with no answer?

The wrong question?

Ask, what is life.

The answer is:

The universe experimenting with everything
at it’s disposal, just to know itself.

shanered · 06-10-2014 12:13pm

We are an extenion of universal energies examining itself.

RichieO · 06-10-2014 12:56pm

Some people spend their entire lives trying to be "one with everything" not realising it's not an option, or something to aspire to.
You already are, whether you like it or not....

RichieO · 06-10-2014 12:57pm

shanered wrote: »

We are an extenion of universal energies examining itself.

Yes, that too....

MRnotlob606 · 06-10-2014 7:16pm

Perhaps there is no meaning in life, the only meaning is what we give to it ourselves as Sartre would of put it.

Black Swan · 08-10-2014 2:27am

Friedrich Nietzsche in The Will to Power (1967 translation) proclaimed an affirmation of life's meaning based upon the moment:

"If we affirm one single moment, we thus affirm not only ourselves but all existence. For nothing is self-sufficient, neither in us ourselves nor in things; and if our soul has trembled with happiness and sounded like a harp string just once, all eternity was needed to produce this one event—and in this single moment of affirmation all eternity was called good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed."

Live for the moment. Each has meaning to be discovered, reflected upon, and learned. All have value. Each is precious.

Torakx · 10-10-2014 3:47am

What does it mean when saying, the universe is examining itself?
I have an interest in entropy and i'm always asking my friends doing physics to remind me of the process in relation to time.
Because i want to understand the foundations of what might be happening at the core of things that effects all other processes in the universe.

One of my vague memories to an answer to entropy, was that the uuniverse is constantly trying to break down energy, so it creates complex things that can break down faster(that is it's purpose). Hence we exist. But behind all that i then ask...WHY?
Why does it need to break down energy and what does that mean in relation to other philosophies.
really i only have a rough grasp of Nietzsches idea of "the Will" and that it might be possible to link it there with those foundational processes. Or I would love to see it linked.

Another interesting thought that came from that conversation on entropy is wether time can go backwards.
I had this mad idea, that if time(which doesn't exist but can be seen through entropy so kind of is entropy) can go forward and things can build and saythe universe was like a giant lung expanding, whatwould happen when it started to collapse? would "time" go backwards? Sounds silly now, i can see issues already with that question.but the idea is hanging there still..

AngryHippie · 10-10-2014 6:59am

The actions within the universe are the pursuit of equilibrium.
The meaning of the Universe:....The Universe is infinity, and eternity.
The Big Bang (or the creation event we have been able to understand in our limit capacity as humans) happened because the probability of it happening is greater than zero.
(Infinite timescale, everything that is not definitely impossible will definitely happen, at least once)

The actions of all living things are to survive.
The meaning of life is to try and manipulate the universe in order to sustain life.
The existence of life, we know its not impossible (as we exist) therefore the probability of it occurring must be greater than zero.

Time is where it all falls apart regarding human understanding, we are subject to time flow....(flow, causality etc.) Therefore we cannot currently understand anything that happens outside of the flow of time as we understand it. Travel in time (backwards) as we know it must not be possible for human beings (as we currently exist), otherwise at least 1 human would have arrived back by now. (That's not to say that further in our evolutionary tree we develop that ability)

As for the notion that we are all one single consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, that is a nonsense. It's a deliberate Paradox by our old friend Jung to demonstrate how the only way to deal with a paradox is to make an assumption, and move past it. If your assumption is proved incorrect by later findings, then you go back to that point, and restart with a new hypothesis.

DoYouEvenLift · 10-10-2014 7:03am

There is none. It's all irrelevant. Everything is a freak accident, especially human consciousness.

#YOLO

RichieO · 11-10-2014 11:00am

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

There is none. It's all irrelevant. Everything is a freak accident, especially human consciousness.

#YOLO

I strongly disagree, the universe can only behave within the constraints of it's nature, there is no such thing as freak, only degrees of probability. I believe that highly evolved species are extremely rare, far more rare than the 'odds' would would dictate. I think SETI are wasting their time money and resources...

shanered · 11-10-2014 11:30am

For this directly goes against the whole spirit of exploration which is arguably the main reason for the creation of civilization as we know it.

This for me would bring in the whole black swan arguement, where-by just because we haven't experienced or seen an entity is no reason to not search for it, because the act of searching may be in vain but sometimes and these are usually some of the greatest events in furthering our knowledge we find something, often not what we are looking for but something else, which is equally amazing.
You may describe it a luck, but lucky people are usually the ones looking for something or putting themselves into unknown territory.

Anyway, I would disagree SETI is a waste of time and resources, as if we found something it would be invaluable. Searching for ET on other planets, searching for marine life at the depths of the ocean, and other life forms wherever they may be found is important to the betterment and further understanding of ourselves in my opinion.

RichieO · 11-10-2014 1:29pm

There was a time I would have agreed wholeheartedly with you, 20,30,40,50 years ago, but after 65 years of study, I will stick with my current assessment, a bad analogy would be going to the beach, casting in a line and hoping to catch a whale, after all, it is the sea, we know there are whales in there, somewhere, but...... What's the chances....

shanered · 11-10-2014 4:28pm

In fairness, you definitely wont catch anything without casting a line, so its definitely increasing the probability of catching something.
I personnally would be up for throwing a line out and seeing if anything bites and dont see the act of trying as wasted, as once you try learn from the experience such that you need a longer line or need to try a different part of the river ment time you try....
Its a learning curve and worthwhile if you can take the results from each attempt and try improve and move on and try new unexplored areas and new techniques until something comes along which usually does thus new discoveries which have always came along and suprised us.

cnocbui · 11-10-2014 4:31pm

To reproduce.

Corkgirl210 · 14-11-2014 5:53pm

to experience oneself's in their own expression/incarnation plan (soul) whilst linked to a higher source who is a combination of all individuals... (spirit)

Torakx · 14-11-2014 8:30pm

At the macro scale of the Universe, I would say there is no purpose, only results. Matter seems to me a negative in an otherwise calm universe, a disruption via vibration and resonance from a "big bang" event.
See Schopenhaurs "On the sufferings of mankind" for more related philosophy.
Visually I see sparks in a black room, spreading out and breaking up slowly, similar to entropy on matter.

At a human level, I guess a lot of the above posts cover it well.
Derida or maybe Heideggar might question what we mean when we say "life" and "meaning".

Pat D. Almighty · 26-12-2014 6:21am

I don't think we'll ever know, but it's nice to speculate

jobeenfitz · 29-12-2014 1:14pm

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

I don't think we'll ever know, but it's nice to speculate

Well that's that. If D Almighty doesn't fekn know, the rest of us mere mortals may stop annoying our stupid little heads on the unattainable.

Boskowski · 30-12-2014 6:36pm

I don't think there is one. We're only a blip on the universe's timeline and on the cosmic scale our existence has no impact whatsoever. We'll be gone too before anyone or anything knows. Now break that down to an individual and then there's really nothing. I guess all one can do is simply be and not read too much into it.

Saipanne · 30-12-2014 6:38pm

It's the wrong question to begin with. Should life have a meaning?

Baked.noodle · 31-12-2014 12:53pm

If we assume life is seeking to become more complex physically and by extension intellectually, then life would seem to have a purpose. To adapt and flourish. When we, as a manifestation of life, look to find meaning it is only possible because life has found a way to develop the capacity and desire to look for meaning. The universe seems to make the likelihood of complex life a rarity, yet in our instance has provided an abundance of circumstances that we can exploit. I can only assume there is more to our existence than meets the eye, and perhaps the true meaning, if any, lies there.

Saipanne · 31-12-2014 1:40pm

Baked.noodle wrote: »

If we assume life is seeking to become more complex physically and by extension intellectually, then life would seem to have a purpose. To adapt and flourish. When we, as a manifestation of life, look to find meaning it is only possible because life has found a way to develop the capacity and desire to look for meaning. The universe seems to make the likelihood of complex life a rarity, yet in our instance has provided an abundance of circumstances that we can exploit. I can only assume there is more to our existence than meets the eye, and perhaps the true meaning, if any, lies there.

Given our extremely limited understanding of everything, that is quite a claim to base your hypothesis on.

Baked.noodle · 31-12-2014 1:51pm

You are right of course, we are only beginning to conceive and understand our surroundings. I'm sure relatively complex life could exist under the ice shell of Titan, but the circumstances that have cradled our development are possibly/probably rarer still.

Saipanne · 31-12-2014 2:11pm

Baked.noodle wrote: »

You are right of course, we are only beginning to conceive and understand our surroundings. I'm sure relatively complex life could exist under the ice shell of Titan, but the circumstances that have cradled our development are possibly/probably rarer still.

I suppose my point is, maybe our version of life is a rarity, but there are far more common types out there, that we have yet to encounter?

Baked.noodle · 31-12-2014 2:38pm

I like to be as optimistic about humanity as I can be, and I would be delighted if we could learn from and teach extraterrestrial life for the betterment of everyone, but I think for all the achievements we have accomplished and all the promise the future holds, I fear the distances are so great and time is relativistic to the point where we are too far away for any meaningful contact.

Saipanne · 31-12-2014 2:43pm

Baked.noodle wrote: »

I like to be as optimistic about humanity as I can be, and I would be delighted if we could learn from and teach extraterrestrial life for the betterment of everyone, but I think for all the achievements we have accomplished and all the promise the future holds, I fear the distances are so great and time is relativistic to the point where we are too far away for any meaningful contact.

Therefore we cannot make statements like the post of yours that I quoted, perhaps?

Baked.noodle · 31-12-2014 2:56pm

I find it mystical that the universe seems to be such a hostile place, yet furnishes man with the means for more bridges to over come. If these obstacles were simply too great to overcome, we would have not developed the required capacity to overcome them. Perhaps the obstacles would inhibit our intellectual development and we remain trapped under the ice of Titan. My original post was just speculation anyway, I wasn't stating that we are the center of the universe or anything. I was just remarking that our experience of intelligence leads us to search for meaning, and if this is a natural manifestation of the evolution of human life perhaps there is something in that search that life values. Perhaps it is integral to our evolution, not a by-product.

RichieO · 31-12-2014 5:04pm

For the most part, I would still go with my original post, trying to give meaning, purpose or reason to life is waste of time, it does not have any, or need any, everything we observe from a virus to blue whales is a result of - what is - where is - time - change...
I do not think the universe is hostile, any more than a volcanic eruption or an earthquake, even a comet or asteroid collision, is a natural event, in fact without all the past collisions we would not be here, and just one could remove us, it's not hostility, it's the nature of the universe.... And I believe advanced intelligent life forms are extremely rare...

Joe1919 · 31-12-2014 8:57pm

Some existentialists would turn this whole discussion on its head in terms of seeing 'meaning' as more subjective than objective and as something essential to a healthy life and almost always sought.To quote Reinhold Niebuhr

Human vitality has two primary sources, animal impulse and confidence in the meaningfulness of human existence. The more human consciousness arises to full self-consciousness and to a complete recognition of the total forces of the universe in which it finds itself, the more it requires not only animal vitality but confidence in the meaningfulness of its world to maintain a healthy will-to-live. This confidence in the meaningfulness of life is not something which results from a sophisticated analysis of the forces and factors which surround the human enterprise. It is something which is assumed in every healthy life.

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-01-2015 10:22am

Torakx wrote: »

What does it mean when saying, the universe is examining itself?
I have an interest in entropy and i'm always asking my friends doing physics to remind me of the process in relation to time.
Because i want to understand the foundations of what might be happening at the core of things that effects all other processes in the universe.

One of my vague memories to an answer to entropy, was that the uuniverse is constantly trying to break down energy, so it creates complex things that can break down faster(that is it's purpose). Hence we exist. But behind all that i then ask...WHY?
Why does it need to break down energy and what does that mean in relation to other philosophies.
really i only have a rough grasp of Nietzsches idea of "the Will" and that it might be possible to link it there with those foundational processes. Or I would love to see it linked.

Another interesting thought that came from that conversation on entropy is wether time can go backwards.
I had this mad idea, that if time(which doesn't exist but can be seen through entropy so kind of is entropy) can go forward and things can build and saythe universe was like a giant lung expanding, whatwould happen when it started to collapse? would "time" go backwards? Sounds silly now, i can see issues already with that question.but the idea is hanging there still..

Highly doubtful, for the same reason time doesn't go backwards when you reverse your car.

The theory is that after the Big Bang the Universe started expanding. At some stage the force of gravity will overtake the force of expansion and things will move the opposite way, until everything is back as a singularity and it can all happen all over again. An elegant theory, that unfortunately may not be true, because there is not enough matter in the Universe for this to happen. So we keep expanding until the universe is cold, dartk and dead. Depressing.
Why do we exist?
My own opinion ranges from Angels cast out of heaven all the way to agreeing with the great philosopher Didactylos who once said 'things just happen, what the hell'.
I doubt the Universe is examining itself, I would suggest it lacks the conscience to do so. If there is a maker, he simply set up the pins and rolled the ball. What happens once the ball is in motion is out of anyone's control.
That does not preclude a divine maker or the existence of an immortal soul, but the importance and influence of both have been blown way out of proportion.

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-01-2015 10:35am

Baked.noodle wrote: »

I like to be as optimistic about humanity as I can be, and I would be delighted if we could learn from and teach extraterrestrial life for the betterment of everyone, but I think for all the achievements we have accomplished and all the promise the future holds, I fear the distances are so great and time is relativistic to the point where we are too far away for any meaningful contact.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/ideachev.html
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/

For now, but give it a few centuries and I am confident that we will be able to traverse great distances.
We cannot picture it yet, the same way someone in the middle ages could not have pictured trains, planes and automobiles or when these inventions came along at first it was feared that any speed over 60 km/h would turn our brains to mush or that the sound barrier could never be broken.

Meaning of life?

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