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Re: PS Vita... Is it trolling if...

  • 21-12-2011 12:29am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,524 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    I point out that Sony, yet again, have fluffed a hardware launch.
    This time it looks like the PS Vita has underperformed even the lacklustre 3DS launch...
    Japanese magazine publisher Enterbrain has announced that an estimated 321,407 PlayStation Vita units were sold in the two days after its release. To put this into context, 371,326 Nintendo 3DS units were sold in the first two days of its launch in February of this year and many considered that to be a poor showing for Nintendo.

    and not to mention firmware issues already..
    There have also been numerous reports of problems with the device. These include issues with the device crashing, lagging during gameplay, frequent freezes and problems registering a PlayStation Network account.

    After the miserable launch of the PS2, mostly down to a poor choice of software.
    After the miserable launch of the PS3, mostly down to a poor choice of pricing.

    Well, the Vita just doesn't seem to be igniting anyone's imagination at all, at least not in comparison to the most successful Sony launch since the PS, the PSP, which sold 200,000 on day one in Japan and sell outs in the States and Europe.

    After the unmitigated disaster of the PSP Go and the latest, irrelevant PSP Street, what next for Sony?
    How will the PS Vita fair against the real competition of, not only the 3DS, but more importantly iPhones, iPads and Android platforms?

    link to article quoted here


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    People who want handheld games get them on their smart phones I really dont see a point unless your a nintendo/PS whore and even those will wait for the full line up of games.
    These companies need to stop thinking its ten years ago and start making games for smart phones instead of making people carry ten different devices around with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Morpork


    Nobody said the launch sales of the 3DS were poor. It was post launch to post price drop sales that were bad. As was the launch software lineup.
    You said "PSP, which sold 200,000 on day one in Japan". What was the two-day sales figure? It wouldn't be doubled as more would buy day one, so it must be less, something along the lines of 321,000 perhaps? Why then, in your eyes is that so bad compared to the PSP launch?

    Moreover, the 3DS launched without any competition. Vita launches with against a system that has already had a price drop, so I'd say it did fairly well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭Nollog


    Morpork wrote: »
    Nobody said the launch sales of the 3DS were poor. It was post launch to post price drop sales that were bad. As was the launch software lineup.
    You said "PSP, which sold 200,000 on day one in Japan". What was the two-day sales figure? It wouldn't be doubled as more would buy day one, so it must be less, something along the lines of 321,000 perhaps? Why then, in your eyes is that so bad compared to the PSP launch?

    Moreover, the 3DS launched without any competition. Vita launches with against a system that has already had a price drop, so I'd say it did fairly well.

    Sales of the 3DS were never "poor".
    The sales of the 3DS didn't come near to Nintendo's expectations, and hadn't matched the DS Lite sales until Mario was released in November.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Nintendo and Sony wont do shovelware or whatever phone games are called.


    Now they both die in the handheld market.

    Until either reconsider, the handheld is DEAD. And rightly so considering phones have 1 ghz CPUs in them.

    Honestly cant see a handheld existing as a new brand ever, unless nintendo go after more kids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,094 ✭✭✭jd007


    dreamers75 wrote: »
    Nintendo and Sony wont do shovelware or whatever phone games are called.


    Now they both die in the handheld market.

    Until either reconsider, the handheld is DEAD. And rightly so considering phones have 1 ghz CPUs in them.

    Honestly cant see a handheld existing as a new brand ever, unless nintendo go after more kids.

    pedobear_6.jpg


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,126 ✭✭✭✭calex71


    Can't find the article now when I want it , but I read the load times favor physical copies of games as opposed to downloaded versions.


    Anyway.... it doesn't have an "i" starting it's name nor is it a phone , people want more these days, I know the games a designed to run best on a dedicated platform but you need to make people want to buy that platform over another.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,692 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Early launch problems. The DS and PS2, the two best selling consoles ever had terrible launches as well and seemed to recover. Until Christmas 2012 it's far too early to tell and I feel that the japanese developers will move to Vita rather than 3DS which will gain it a lot of popularity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ gizmo


    People who want handheld games get them on their smart phones I really dont see a point unless your a nintendo/PS whore and even those will wait for the full line up of games.
    These companies need to stop thinking its ten years ago and start making games for smart phones instead of making people carry ten different devices around with them.
    To date, the lifetime sales for the DS platform (excluding 3DS) is 149m. The 3DS has sold 6.68m so far. For the PSP, it's 71m. So no, not everyone who wants handheld games get them on their smartphones.

    If I want to play a casual game like Bejeweled or Plants vs Zombies, I'll play it on my phone.

    If I want to play something like Uncharted: Golden Abyss or Super Mario 3D Land, I'll get a Vita or 3DS.

    You don't have to be a Sony/Nintendo whore to want that kind of quality from your games.

    As an aside, it's quite difficult to use an adjective to describe mobile games which won't irk someone so I'll put it like this. In 1991 I got a Game Boy for my birthday. If you were to ask me about some of my fondest moments playing that or some of the handhelds since, I could list of a number of truely great games that I'll never forget playing. Dito for some of the subsequent handhelds. Conversely, in 20 years time I can almost guarantee you I won't remember one standout mobile game I played on my phone from this era. I might remember the insane success of Angry Birds or one of Popcap's finer titles but the likes of Doodle Jump, Cut The Rope or Jetpack Joyride? Not a chance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    considering thre numbers you posted are about 95% of launch stock, I wouldn't call it a flop


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    People who want handheld games get them on their smart phones I really dont see a point unless your a nintendo/PS whore and even those will wait for the full line up of games.
    These companies need to stop thinking its ten years ago and start making games for smart phones instead of making people carry ten different devices around with them.

    try playing Uncharted on a phone, wont work , you need the thumbsticks, something like Angry Birds or Tetris or a point in click thing yeah, but a touch screen phone cant compare to two analogue sticks on a dedicated platform. I have a few games on my phone and they're a nice way to pass the time at work (heh) but to play a proper involving game I'd prefer a handheld.

    I'm tempted by the Vita, it looks lovely and the launch lineup is good, Uncharted and Wipeout would sell me on it,I rarely day one new consoles though so will give it a while and see how the software is and if theres any launch bugs when its out over here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    Grand theft auto III just got released on smart phone, and theres also that RPG game, I cant remember the name but they are the first big titles to hit smart phone and they are just going to get better and better. The handheld systems are going to be obsolete in the next 3 years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Grand theft auto III just got released on smart phone, and theres also that RPG game, I cant remember the name but they are the first big titles to hit smart phone and they are just going to get better and better. The handheld systems are going to be obsolete in the next 3 years.

    not in 3 years, within 10 definitely, probably closer to 7

    3 is a ridiculously hyperbolic statement and shows little understanding of how the markets work tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ gizmo


    Grand theft auto III just got released on smart phone, and theres also that RPG game, I cant remember the name but they are the first big titles to hit smart phone and they are just going to get better and better. The handheld systems are going to be obsolete in the next 3 years.
    Grand Theft Auto III is a ten year old game which doesn't require particularly fine grained control and isn't overly hectic in terms of action on the screen. It is by no means a good example to show how mobile gaming is catching up to what can be achieved on dedicated handhelds.

    I'm not really sure which RPG you're referring to? Infinity Blade? Sword & Sworcery? The Chrono Trigger re-release?

    Either which way, those types of games will work fine on smartphones, at least in terms of gameplay. When you start aiming for higher graphical standards and larger worlds such as those found on the likes of Vita games, then I think you're going to struggle to get the average smartphone user to download multiple gigs worth of a game.

    So outside of RPGs what else is there? Sports games? I've played Pro Evo on my phone, it didn't end well. Racing games? Can you imagine controlling a fast paced racer like Burnout on a touch screen? Fighting games? Street Fighter IV showed that you'll be dealing with severely watered down release on the mobile platform. Third person action games? Can you imagine a game like Uncharted: Golden Abyss on a phone? First Person Shooters? I've played NOVA 2 and to be fair, it was a lot better than I expected. Would it be massively improved with dual analogs though? Most definitely.

    As you can see, there's a pattern emerging here, the control scheme. The smartphone's lack of buttons is the reason that, no matter how technologically advanced mobile games get, it's still limited to interaction via the touchscreen. This is why it's only suitable for specific types of games and, as I said above, there's nothing wrong with this. In fact, it could lead to some pretty inventive titles which are ideal for the platform. What it does mean though is that they won't be pushing traditional handhelds out of the market anytime soon.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,524 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Helix wrote: »
    considering thre numbers you posted are about 95% of launch stock, I wouldn't call it a flop

    You might care to try reading the quoted article .
    According to it, and from Sony's own figures, they shipped 700,000 consolesand therefore sold around 50% of available stock in the first two days.
    Hmm, ridiculous hyperbole indeed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    You might care to try reading the quoted article .
    According to it, and from Sony's own figures, they shipped 700,000 consolesand therefore sold around 50% of available stock in the first two days.
    Hmm, ridiculous hyperbole indeed.

    Why so much anger for Sony and ps vita?

    If you don't like it, don't want to buy it, find it very poor quality, then don't buy it.

    I am on the fence with this myself, but not because I don't like Sony. It's just I don't find proper use for handhelds anymore. I got 3ds and it's great little machine, but I haven't used it outside my bedroom. I am afraid that vita will be in same boat. After having my second pc in bedroom I can't even justify all my consoles anymore.

    If someone needs a nice portable Internet tablet, with movies, music and games them this vita will still be cool little gadget.

    Plus all consoles did very bad at launch for good few years now ( yeah yeah wii did hood, but look at it now ) .So I don't think that okish ( not even bad ) launch is a factor of fail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    I got 3ds and it's great little machine, but I haven't used it outside my bedroom

    Having fun with that 3D camera? :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭death1234567


    gizmo wrote: »
    What it does mean though is that they won't be pushing traditional handhelds out of the market anytime soon.
    I disagree entirely. It means that they'll be massacring the market for handhelds, leaving it so small that it will be unsustainable to manufacture and market a DS or PSP or Vita or whatever.

    What do most people use handhelds for? Playing games on the move (e.g. when travelling) or playing a quick game of something when bored. They aren't looking for top end graphics or deep stories, just a quick fix of gaming and a bit of fun. Sure some keen gamers like handhelds for more than that but that market isn't nearly big enough to be sustainable IMO.

    Most people will just use smartphones (+ tablets) for handheld gaming, and its also has the benefit of being a multifunction device. They aren't going to go out an spend €200+ on a specialist device that only plays games even if those games have slightly better graphics or a better control scheme. Also the competition in the smartphone/tablet market means the enhancements technology will grow very quickly leading to more powerful hardware, better apps and better games.

    Specialised Handheld gaming devices are an indangered species and I, for one, won't be sad the day they die (which will be soon). If Sony or Nintendo want to keep revenue up then they'll have release proper multifunction devices.

    IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,275 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    People who want handheld games get them on their smart phones I really dont see a point unless your a nintendo/PS whore and even those will wait for the full line up of games.
    These companies need to stop thinking its ten years ago and start making games for smart phones instead of making people carry ten different devices around with them.

    You need to stop thinking it's 10 years into the future.

    Gaming on smart phones is a long, LONG way away from completely removing hand held consoles from the scene. Will it ever get to that stage? I don't think it will. They're filler to entertain you for 5 minutes on the bus.

    I can't say one has ever entertained me for hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Having fun with that 3D camera? :p

    I have to get misses interested in gaming some how :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ gizmo


    What do most people use handhelds for? Playing games on the move (e.g. when travelling) or playing a quick game of something when bored. They aren't looking for top end graphics or deep stories, just a quick fix of gaming and a bit of fun. Sure some keen gamers like handhelds for more than that but that market isn't nearly big enough to be sustainable IMO.
    The same thing they've always wanted handhelds for? As a matter of interest, what percentage of gamers, roughly speaking, do you think have switched from a handheld to a phone for their portable gaming needs? I ask because since the market has been large enough thus far, for it to become unsustainable you must think it has shrunk to a large degree?
    Most people will just use smartphones (+ tablets) for handheld gaming, and its also has the benefit of being a multifunction device. They aren't going to go out an spend €200+ on a specialist device that only plays games even if those games have slightly better graphics or a better control scheme. Also the competition in the smartphone/tablet market means the enhancements technology will grow very quickly leading to more powerful hardware, better apps and better games.
    We seem to be talking about two different markets here. Yes, most people will use smartphones for handheld gaming. This is because in the third quarter of 2011 alone, more than 115m smartphones were sold worldwide. No handheld can compete with this. As I've said though, they don't need to. They're aiming at two very different markets which cater to two distinct needs.

    What progress have we seen in the smartphone industry in the last number of years though? We've seen the arrival of UDK and Unity on the platforms yet, outside of Infinity Blade, no notable titles that use them. The charts, even today, still feature the same quirky physics games, Canabalt-esque running games and twin stick shooters that have been present for the last 2/3 years. Don't get me wrong, we've seen some really enjoyed games but as I said in my post above, have we seen anything that you'll remember playing in 20 years time?
    Specialised Handheld gaming devices are an indangered species and I, for one, won't be sad the day they die (which will be soon). If Sony or Nintendo want to keep revenue up then they'll have release proper multifunction devices.

    IMO.
    This I take great umbrage at. Why on earth would you want to see handhelds die out? If, as part of your reply, you could refute what I said in the second last paragraph of my previous reply I'd happily concede the point. If your answer is going to be that we don't need these genres on handheld devices then I think we're simply not on the same page.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    gizmo wrote: »
    The same thing they've always wanted handhelds for? As a matter of interest, what percentage of gamers, roughly speaking, do you think have switched from a handheld to a phone for their portable gaming needs? I ask because since the market has been large enough thus far, for it to become unsustainable you must think it has shrunk to a large degree?


    We seem to be talking about two different markets here. Yes, most people will use smartphones for handheld gaming. This is because in the third quarter of 2011 alone, more than 115m smartphones were sold worldwide. No handheld can compete with this. As I've said though, they don't need to. They're aiming at two very different markets which cater to two distinct needs.

    What progress have we seen in the smartphone industry in the last number of years though? We've seen the arrival of UDK and Unity on the platforms yet, outside of Infinity Blade, no notable titles that use them. The charts, even today, still feature the same quirky physics games, Canabalt-esque running games and twin stick shooters that have been present for the last 2/3 years. Don't get me wrong, we've seen some really enjoyed games but as I said in my post above, have we seen anything that you'll remember playing in 20 years time?


    This I take great umbrage at. Why on earth would you want to see handhelds die out? If, as part of your reply, you could refute what I said in the second last paragraph of my previous reply I'd happily concede the point. If your answer is going to be that we don't need these genres on handheld devices then I think we're simply not on the same page.

    This one of very rare times when I am completely agree with you. :D

    For the record: I am always checking proper games for my handhelds. I have crapy angry birds on the phone and my handhelds are for games that I can't get on pc or console now. Complex RPGs, turn based strategies etc.

    Hardcore gamers will still be buying handhelds, no matter what.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Fnz


    I'd have thought phone gaming is 'good enough' for a large proportion of people who would, otherwise, have forked out for a dedicated gaming device.

    I'd like some sort of controller-add-on to become a standard. One that would function with a phone or tablet's display (it's nice to want things).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭nitromaster


    3DS did better for it's first two days, and has Monster Hunter! Nintendo are pretty much sorted in Japan...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,692 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I can't really get excited over some of the Vita games. As the PSP proved games that work on console don't necessarily work on a handheld system. It's a big reason the DS took off since it offered experiences that work as a handheld game and you couldn't find on the consoles. I think the PS Vita going for a console like gaming experience on the move is sony making the same mistake twice.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,524 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Why so much anger for Sony and ps vita?

    Anger?
    What anger?
    I'm simply commenting on the PSVita selling no where near the expected over it's initial two days on sale.
    I have no beef with Sony, I have owned every console they have made and still love my PSone and PS2.
    Just because someone makes an observation of the poor opening few days of the console does not make it an attack on Sony or the Vita itself.

    But, even if it was, which it isn't, why would you take offence???
    If you don't like it, don't want to buy it, find it very poor quality, then don't buy it.
    Eh, sure, like isn't that stating the obvious there?
    I will probably buy it for the new Wipeout game alone, the rest seems lacklustre tbh.
    Even the Wipeout series has become jaded, with a short blip of goodness with the two PSP titles.
    I found the PS3 version to be little more than a big screen rehash of the small screen games.

    Again, this is not an attack on Sony, before any folk take it all way too personally, I had a similar experience with the 3DS, suffering months of no decent games at all until Zelda, Marioland 3D and Mariokart 7 finally kicked it all off.
    Starfox 3D was such a redundant game, I already have the N64 version and the 3DS version added little to warrant hanging onto it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,524 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I can't really get excited over some of the Vita games. As the PSP proved games that work of console don't necessarily work on a handheld system. It's a big reason the DS took off since it offered experiences that work as a handheld game and you couldn't find on the consoles. I think the PS Vita going for a console like gaming experience on the move is sony making the same mistake twice.

    Exactly what frakked it up for them last time, providing games that no one wanted to play on the go, just versions of PS2 titles and they even added insult to injury by bringing them to the big screen as well, just to show how irrelevant the PSP was, Vice City Stories is case and point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Anger?
    What anger?
    I'm simply commenting on the PSVita selling no where near the expected over it's initial two days on sale.
    I have no beef with Sony, I have owned every console they have made and still love my PSone and PS2.
    Just because someone makes an observation of the poor opening few days of the console does not make it an attack on Sony or the Vita itself.

    But, even if it was, which it isn't, why would you take offence???


    Eh, sure, like isn't that stating the obvious there?
    I will probably buy it for the new Wipeout game alone, the rest seems lacklustre tbh.
    Even the Wipeout series has become jaded, with a short blip of goodness with the two PSP titles.
    I found the PS3 version to be little more than a big screen rehash of the small screen games.

    Again, this is not an attack on Sony, before any folk take it all way too personally, I had a similar experience with the 3DS, suffering months of no decent games at all until Zelda, Marioland 3D and Mariokart 7 finally kicked it all off.
    Starfox 3D was such a redundant game, I already have the N64 version and the 3DS version added little to warrant hanging onto it.

    emmm i did not took offence at all. i couldnt give a flying Feck about Vita and sony at this stage, the thing i wanted to say: you overreact much, thats all.

    If a product is not for you, walk away. If a product is for you, then stop moaning and buy it! easy! ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    emmm i did not took offence at all. i couldnt give a flying Feck about Vita and sony at this stage, the thing i wanted to say: you overreact much, thats all.

    If a product is not for you, walk away. If a product is for you, then stop moaning and buy it! easy! ;)

    But what happens when you've high hopes for a product, only to be disappointed? As in Cidermans case I'm sure. Then it's not a case of it being for you or not, he clearly wants a Vita, but is dissappointed at the lineup


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    EnterNow wrote: »
    But what happens when you've high hopes for a product, only to be disappointed? As in Cidermans case I'm sure. Then it's not a case of it being for you or not, he clearly wants a Vita, but is dissappointed at the lineup

    3DS had a horrible line up, but now they have a very decent one, they pulled it out of theyr arses, but by god they did it well.


    nothing will change, and i feel for him, as i was very dissapointed in 3DS line up, all we can do now - wait.

    In all fairness PS VITA did aimed for being PSP2, so not a big surprise there. I love my PSP and i LOVED it when it came out, as it was my first luxury item since when i came in to ireland. GTA liberty city wasnt a perfect handheld game, but holy bejesus i played like there was no tomorrow!

    I did not expected: DS VITA, i expected PS VITA, so maybe thats why i am not so disappointed.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,524 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    I'm not overreacting.
    I am responding to posts after I made the OP in this thread.

    I make an observation...

    You respond....

    I respond to that....

    No hate here for Sony.
    No hate here for the Vita.
    A little hate for the PS3, because it went ylod on me during the summer :(
    I bought the PSP at launch, got it in from Canada as it was a lot cheaper than getting from the US.
    I was, along with most, very impressed but after a few months it became little more than a glorified paper weight as it rarely got played, nothing worth playing.
    I sold it, bought another a year later... sold that after it became a paper weight and three years ago bought my final PSP and that's now a would be homebrew device and mostly a paper weight again, but I accept it and it lives with the rest of my handheld console collection in the gamesroom!

    I really do want a PS Vita, I want it because it's new, I want it for the new Wipeout game, but there is precious few other reasons why it's not going to wind up ignored after a month, so few are the gaming reasons to keep playing it.

    But I will find the cash in the new year, sell a kidney, a lobe of liver and pick one up....
    Bound to be a Ridge Racer worth playing on it too!


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