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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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  • Options
    #7382
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    I'll say pay your damn taxes - there's the actual principle. What's the septic tank registration anyway? Tuppence halfpenny.

    Come on. Be a dear, show some respect, grow a pair, and answer the question posed to you several times already:

    How do you define impacted?

    Do you agree with keeping PS/CS wages at the amount they are - even if it means borrowing €400m EVERY WEEK?

    Do you agree with keeping SW rates and continuing to borrow for same?

    Do you agree with failed business entities being bailed out while other Private Sector companies go to the wall, without State aid?


  • Options
    #7383
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm avoiding nothing - indications are my tax on the tiered scale will be somewhere between €500 and a grand. I'll be paying my damn taxes. And the septic tank fee - a one-off of a fiver? Tuppence halfpenny.

    You're avoiding EVERYTHING!:D No surprises though.


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    #7384
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    Ya I have definitely decided not to pay.

    I do pay my taxes btw.

    Except for when you don't. Okay.


  • Options
    #7385
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Or are you going to say that we need to stop borrowing money to fund local authorities hence the elevated figures that have been posted here for the full blown property tax? Fair enough, but what about the other government expenditure that has still been left untouched (expenses, pensions reforms, PS waste, abolition of the Seanad etc, etc etc)??????

    Well said. But Enda's cheerleader there avoids the picky issue, like THESE.


  • Options
    #7386
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCJA8oZQ4Fo


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4xR2zC7gmg


    From Friday.


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    #7387
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    phil1nj wrote: »
    But this a charge, not a full on property tax. The government have said this time and time again. So my question still stands.....why the exemptions?

    This is a property tax. It's not the same as the upcoming property tax, but it's still a property tax - and requires that you have actual 'property' to be liable for the tax. Don't know why this needs repeating - its pretty straightforward.


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    #7388
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    Except for when you don't. Okay.

    we are going round in circles, it's not a fair tax and you know it.
    It will not be spent on local amenities and you know that also.
    I pay everything I have to pay except for this unfair property tax which will not really benefit me at all. we will agree to disagree, lets see how it all pans out.


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    #7389
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    hondasam wrote: »
    If only we were all as willing to throw our money away like you. I would be happy to pay €100 if I could then stop paying my bin charges which are €360 for the year but this is not included in the household charge is it?
    I'm sure we will be paying for water as well, this is not included either. Ya I have definitely decided not to pay.

    I do pay my taxes btw.

    I hear some people also argue that the protests did not work on the bin charges.... simple fact is we could be all enjoying a free bin service today if everyone backed up the protest and did not pay but unfortunetly there are always the ones that go out and cant pay quick enough... these are the ones that topple the first domino and who feck it up for everyone this is precisely the reason that people need to hold back and do not register!


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    #7390
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    This is a property tax. It's not the same as the upcoming property tax, but it's still a property tax - and requires that you have actual 'property' to be liable for the tax. Don't know why this needs repeating - its pretty straightforward.


    Why should tenants be exempt? don't they use services?


  • Options
    #7391
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    we are going round in circles, it's not a fair tax and you know it.
    It will not be spent on local amenities and you know that also.
    I pay everything I have to pay except for this unfair property tax which will not really benefit me at all. we will agree to disagree, lets see how it all pans out.

    You know very well that it will be spent solely on local authority funding - and don't put words in my mouth that are a full 180 degrees from what I've repeatedly pointed out to you. I'm not interested in your feelings on the subject - the law and common sense dictate otherwise.


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    #7392
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Well said. But Enda's cheerleader there avoids the picky issue, like THESE.
    Or THESE.

    Just a few snippets of the gravy train that our friend Alistair would have you believe doesn't exist:

    http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/how-much-do-irish-politicians-get-paid-part-1-of-2/

    "This country is bankrupt with an annual deficit of €15bn, in other words we need borrow €300m a week just to keep the country going. We are being bailed out by the IMF and others. We are steadily travelling in a trajectory that will see a debt:GDP of nearly 120% next year or 140%-plus of GNP, or according to most economists, on the border if not having exceeded sustainable levels.

    We have €3.8bn of new taxes and cuts to services in 2012, next year we will have an additional adjustment of €3.5bn, in 2014 it will be €3.1bn and in 2015 it will be €2bn, and these cuts will be cumulative, so that by 2015 – and in comparison with 2011 – there will be an annual adjustment of €12.4bn.

    If you think a €100 household charge here, a €5 septic tank registration fee there, a cut to emergency payments or the deterioration in public services after this month’s early retirements are anything, then you ain’t seen nothing yet."

    Wow! Wouldn't you think they'd lead from the top by example and make vouched expenses the order of the day; close the subsidised Dail bar; reduce the number of TDs; abolish the Senate; and cut TDs pay to reasonable levels.

    But, those charged with change are the ones most affected by it; thus nothing will change. Who watches the watchers?

    It is only a matter of time until we reach critical mass and cannot afford to borrow that €300m per week. And that day will be soon.


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    #7393
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Why should tenants be exempt? don't they use services?

    Do they have property?

    Should cyclists be liable for motor tax?


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    #7394
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    alastair wrote: »
    You know very well that it will be spent solely on local authority funding - and don't put words in my mouth that are a full 180 degrees from what I've repeatedly pointed out to you. I'm not interested in your feelings on the subject - the law and common sense dictate otherwise.

    Ah Lord. You should be on Saturday night live.:D To think that you actually believe that.:rolleyes: You are, certainly, a member of a sitting Government party or TD. Nothing else could explain that level of gullibility.


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    #7395
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    its pretty straightforward.

    That's where you are wrong, if it was people would pay. If the government were not so greedy and left it at €100 for say five years majority of people would have paid up. I would,maybe others might not agree.
    If this lot in power told me today was Saturday I would have a problem believing them.


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    #7396
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Why should tenants be exempt? don't they use services?
    Yep. It is called a household charge. So all households should be liable.


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    #7397
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    That's where you are wrong, if it was people would pay. If the government were not so greedy and left it at €100 for say five years majority of people would have paid up. I would,maybe others might not agree.
    If this lot in power told me today was Saturday I would have a problem believing them.

    That's an issue for you and your head. I'll stick with a reliance on my critical faculties.


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    #7398
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    Do they have property?

    Should cyclists be liable for motor tax?

    The household charge is for local amenities, playgrounds, fire service etc, how are tenants exempt? should we only allow kids who's parents paid play on the swings?
    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Yep. It is called a household charge. So all households should be liable.


    Yes every person should be liable in order for it to be fair.


  • Options
    #7399
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Yep. It is called a household charge. So all households should be liable.


    Wow! What an insight. Edward deBono watch out!


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    #7400
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    alastair wrote: »
    You know very well that it will be spent solely on local authority funding - and don't put words in my mouth that are a full 180 degrees from what I've repeatedly pointed out to you. I'm not interested in your feelings on the subject - the law and common sense dictate otherwise.

    Irony and fibs spotted :

    (1)
    "You know very well that it will be spent solely on local authority funding. "
    Actually, it won't be.

    (2)
    don't put words in my mouth that are a full 180 degrees from what I've repeatedly pointed out to you.
    From someone who does this all the time :D

    (3)
    I'm not interested in your feelings on the subject
    Then why are you reading them?

    (4)
    The law and common sense dictate otherwise
    Actually in this case common sense does not and the "law" is illegitimate.

    You need a bit less economy with the truth Al. ;)


  • Options
    #7401
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    The household charge is for local amenities, playgrounds, fire service etc, how are tenants exempt? should we only allow kids who's parents paid play on the swings?

    every tax payer continues to contribute to those services. I have to point this out again?


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    #7402
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    Do they have property?

    Should cyclists be liable for motor tax?


    Tenants use the same services as I do.So should be made pay a service charge.

    Good point, yes cyclists should be made pay tax, they think they own the road so let them pay for some of it.

    I wonder how many people who have registered, now regret it.


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    #7403
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Good point, yes cyclists should be made pay tax, they think they own the road so let them pay for some of it.

    They do. They just aren't liable for motor tax - for obvious reasons. Same story with Property tax and tenants.


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    #7404
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    every tax payer continues to contribute to those services. I have to point this out again?

    Yes workers contribute, people on the dole do not (no offence intended).
    With this property tax I will contribute more, how is this fair. For it to be fair and if it is to be used for local amenities then every person should pay.
    My point is I will still pay bin charges, water charges and septic tank charge.


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    #7405
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    alastair wrote: »
    This is a property tax. It's not the same as the upcoming property tax, but it's still a property tax - and requires that you have actual 'property' to be liable for the tax. Don't know why this needs repeating - its pretty straightforward.

    Eh no, it's definitely a household charge not a property tax. You saying that its just a different type of property tax goes against all of the for arguments for this charge. It's suppossed to be spent on local services that all people in a locality avail of therefore be it a charge or a tax it's still unfair when you analyse what people are being asked to pay for. You own a house, you will also pay for those in your area who use the same amenities, regardless of their income or ability to pay. Where is the fairness in that? Or the justification?


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    #7406
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Let's not get too side-tracked by the campaign against the illegitimate house tax; it's a very valuable first step but a bird can't fly on one wing.

    Meanwhile, if you are angry as hell at the smug fascist bullying and threats there are some practical steps you can take short of rioting and rallying in order to send a message to the undemocratic Regime:

    (1) Continue, of course, to refuse to pay the property tax
    (2) pay for everything we can in cash especially trades folk and professional services - dentists/doctors etc
    (3) shop anywhere (like NI) that doesn't contribute to the exchequer run by the current illegitimate Regime
    (4) Shop for food in Farmer's markets (it's healthier anyway)
    (5) Max out on car boot sales and barter where it's convenient to do so.
    (6)Take all your money out of the Irish banking system; buy gold or stuff the cash in a safe underground; whatever. Minimize your use of banks.
    (7)Don't tax your car - you'll never get caught with careful routing
    (8)Don't ever pay your first TV licence if you haven't already done so
    (9)Bombard the tax-office with endless queries and calls for re-checking - it costs and keeps them distracted.
    (10) In short do anything you can think of that costs the state money or deprives it and the banks of cash.

    See how many bully boys knocking on a million doors they can afford then! :D

    (And become a "freeman" - apparently that's what happens it you stay within the Common Law)

    Remember the 10-point-plan; Al keeps spraying one-liner posts to bury this in the back posts - but I'm up to his tricks! ;)


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    #7407
    Wicklowrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »

    Good point, yes cyclists should be made pay tax, they think they own the road so let them pay for some of it.

    .

    Come by and measure my emissions and I'll sign you a cheque.


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    #7408
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    hondasam wrote: »
    Yes workers contribute, people on the dole do not (no offence intended).
    With this property tax I will contribute more, how is this fair. For it to be fair and if it is to be used for local amenities then every person should pay.
    My point is I will still pay bin charges, water charges and septic tank charge.

    If you buy a car you contribute more - is that fair in your mind?


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    #7409
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,855 ✭✭✭trellheim


    **** me its tax avoider central in here. The law is the law. This website is fairly holier-than-thou when it comes to posting torrents or "how-to-torrent" but doesn't seem to have a problem with people advocating tax evasion which is lawbreaking. For reference, then.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0036/sec0003.html#sec3
    3.— (1) In the year 2012 and in each subsequent year thereafter, each person who, on the liability date of the year concerned, is the owner of a residential property shall, subject to this Act, pay to the relevant local authority the sum (in this Act referred to as a “household charge”) specified in accordance with this section.

    and

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0036/sec0012.html#sec12
    (3) A local authority may recover from an owner of a residential property, as a simple contract debt in any court of competent jurisdiction, any household charges, late payment fees and late payment interest due and owing to the local authority in respect of that property.

    Poof ! and your credit rating is gone ( like Cillit Bang! )


    All the other bs being peddled here is nice but totally irrelevant.


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    #7410
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    alastair wrote: »
    every tax payer continues to contribute to those services. I have to point this out again?

    Oh no they don't!

    To use your own favourite response to points you are unable to refute:

    "Just because you say that over and over that doesn't make it true" :p


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    #7411
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    alastair wrote: »
    If you buy a car you contribute more - is that fair in your mind?

    You keep moving the goalposts.
    If I buy a car it's my decision,no one is forcing me to buy it. If I decide to drive a BMW instead of a fiesta it's also my choice but I have a choice, see where I'm going, it's about having a choice.


This discussion has been closed.
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