First Dual Carriageways in Ireland

Zoney · 06-07-2007 4:30pm

Happy Bertie wrote:

This reminds me to ask the question, when did the standard for S2 roads with hard shoulders with yellow dashes on the sides begin? Was it in 50s or 60s? This begs a second question when were most of the current S2 roads with hard shoulders built? (like the ones between Dublin to Cork/Limerick) I know the horse track version of the route may have there since Cromwell but I'm referring to current "modern" i.e. 12ft lanes with 9ft shoulders.

I think a lot of the hard shoulder additions/upgrades were done in the 1980s (and indeed continuing into the 1990s and 2000s). Certainly I think in the very early 80s most of Limerick-Dublin didn't have them.

JupiterKid · 06-07-2007 5:15pm

Originally Posted by Happy Bertie
This reminds me to ask the question, when did the standard for S2 roads with hard shoulders with yellow dashes on the sides begin? Was it in 50s or 60s? This begs a second question when were most of the current S2 roads with hard shoulders built? (like the ones between Dublin to Cork/Limerick) I know the horse track version of the route may have there since Cromwell but I'm referring to current "modern" i.e. 12ft lanes with 9ft shoulders.

The use of yellow dashed lines for hard shoulders as far as I know began around 1972, when the system of National Primary and National Secondary roads was established, and the old Trunk (T) roads became N roads. This was also around the same time the green raod signs appeared and kilometres replaced miles. Of course, this being Ireland, replacing all the signs took about a decade or more, and the old Link (L) roads weren't reclassified as Regional (R) roiads until well into the 1980s.

Most of the current wide National routes (with hard shoulders) were widened/realigned in the 1970s and early 1980s. I remember, as a small kid in the early 80s, a lot of work still being done of the N6 Kinnegad to Athlone section.

JupiterKid · 06-07-2007 5:23pm

What about the Quays surly these are the original dual carrage way.

Nope. The quays were, believe it or not, actually two way traffic on both sides until around 1970, when the one way system was introduced. The original one way system on the Dublin quays was contra-flow to normal traffic, and the current flow (eastbound north, westbound south) only came in with the opening of the Frank Sherwin Bridge near Heuston Station around 1981/2.

Zoney · 06-07-2007 5:48pm

Very interesting information JupiterKid, thanks.

Victor · 06-07-2007 8:00pm

murphaph wrote:

Any info on the N81 stretches of dualler from Templeogue to Tallaght West?

From the M50 west was done in the early 1980s - there was an infamous stand-off with a group of travellers on the bypass section.

I think the section east of the M50 was later and was associated with the M50 works.

The current northbound bridge on the M50 over the Dodder was originally a two-way road and the only section ever to be N50 instead of M50.

JupiterKid · 06-07-2007 8:28pm

The short Ferrycarrig dual carriageway in Waterford city on the N25 must be quite old - anyone got a date for its opening?

Victor · 06-07-2007 8:37pm

I think its late 1980s - I'm sure Mike65 will know better. Note that some of it is built over the river on columns.

Church Road in Ballybrack was done in two phases - one in the early 1990s and then the extension towards Dun Laoghaire about 5 years ago. The interchange with the N11 and M50 were done over the last few years.

murphaph · 06-07-2007 8:57pm

What about the N3 between the Halfway House and the M50? That predates the Northern Cross Route, doesn't it?

Victor · 06-07-2007 9:02pm

Probably. I think the section outside the M50 followed the Western Parkway and then the inner section was done.

It is one of the meaner DCs around.

Prof_V · 06-07-2007 9:58pm

Victor wrote:

From the M50 west was done in the early 1980s - there was an infamous stand-off with a group of travellers on the bypass section.

The road sat idle for a few years because of this. From personal memories, I think the footbridge at the back of what was once H. Williams in Tallaght village was there by about 1981, so the works must have been pretty far advanced by then, but I think it might have been 1984 or so by the time the road opened.

I've seen maps seeming to indicate that the section between the roundabout that became the M50 junction and the next one to the west (the link road at Balrothery) opened later than the western end - the N81 goes west along the old road past the end of Tymon Lane, then down the hill and sharp right onto the Bypass - but I can't verify this.

I think the section east of the M50 was later and was associated with the M50 works.

As I recall it, it was certainly later than the rest but earlier than the M50. The dual carriageway was finished by the time I started using the 65 bus in autumn 1988; the M50 only reached the N81 in November or December 1990. I have hazy memories, which I think are from 1987, of the stretch outside Cheeverstown House being almost but not quite finished.

The current northbound bridge on the M50 over the Dodder was originally a two-way road and the only section ever to be N50 instead of M50.

Yes; it seems (judging by OS street maps and my memories) to have been built after the bypass but before the M50 - I think I remember 1986, but I could be mistaken. Indeed, maybe this was done at the same time as the eastern end of the dual carriageway.

And that's before we get on to the fact that one carriageway of the M50 from Greenhills Road to the N81 was built around the same time as the Bypass but never opened in its original form (I think the then Dublin County Council figured building single carriageways and upgrading them later would be a way to get motorway schemes off the ground when money was scarce, but obviously they thought better of it pretty quickly).

ardmacha · 06-07-2007 10:03pm

one carriageway of the M50 from Greenhills Road to the N81 was built around the same time as the Bypass but never opened in its original form

I recall cycling up this road when it was closed, so I suppose I cycled on the M50!

The use of yellow dashed lines for hard shoulders as far as I know began around 1972,

Much before that, yellow lines at the edge of a road are mentioned in S.I. No. 284/1956 — Traffic Signs Regulations, 1956. This standardisation came after a discussion document which discussed the merits of yellow and white line for edge markings.

The section of the old N1 south of Dunleer, to the Monastraboice Inn, was built in the 1950s and had narrow shoulders and I imagine yellow lines.

Another dual carriageway in the 1970's was the Bridge of Peace and relief road in Drogheda, which was something like 1973.

Ham'nd'egger · 06-07-2007 11:19pm

The N 81 from Tymon/Glenview to Templeogue was there mid 80's as I recall going to an event in Cheeverstown on it. 1987 sounds right As to when it was opened, there is a stone on the New Templeogue bridge which should reveal a definitive date of it's being opened; two and two would make the bridge and by pass being of the same project so next time one of use passes it, that is one arguement that can be closed. On the Firhouse road, I can recall walking up it to go to a barbeque about 1996 so it was there at least that long.

Just as a by thought, would it be correct to say that the M 1 from Whitehall to the Coolock Lane turn off is the first dual carriage to be closed permantly in Ireland?

Wishbone Ash · 06-07-2007 11:36pm

ardmacha wrote:

The section of the old N1 south of Dunleer, to the Monastraboice Inn, was built in the 1950s and had narrow shoulders and I imagine yellow lines

The old Drogheda -Dundalk road is particularly interesting as it was originally finished in concrete. Some of the the concrete sections used to be exposed here and there along it and they could also be seen in sharp bends which were long since rectified. I'm not sure if they are still visible as I'm rarely on the old road now.

ardmacha wrote:

Another dual carriageway in the 1970's was the Bridge of Peace and relief road in Drogheda, which was something like 1973.

Again, I'm open to correction but was that not opened around 1979 and named "Bridge of Peace" following Pope John Paul's appeal for peace in Northern Ireland during his mass in Tullyesker Hill in 1979?

fricatus · 06-07-2007 11:49pm

JupiterKid wrote:

The short Ferrycarrig dual carriageway in Waterford city on the N25 must be quite old - anyone got a date for its opening?

You mean the Ferrybank DC (officially known as the Dock Road I believe, though absolutely nobody calls it that).

I think it was completed in 1986, though I could be wrong.

As someone else said, it was kinda cool at the time because it goes up on "stilts" (sorry, sounds cooler than "columns") over the Waterford-Rosslare railway and part of the railway station car park.

ardmacha · 07-07-2007 12:29am

The old Drogheda -Dundalk road is particularly interesting as it was originally finished in concrete.

The N1 in Louth was one of the first concrete roads in the 1920s. My aunt commented on how people had talked about it at the time. Most of it was later rebuilt, as Wishbone Ash said the old sections can be seen where the road was realigned.

Again, I'm open to correction but was that not opened around 1979 and named "Bridge of Peace" following Pope John Paul's appeal for peace in Northern Ireland during his mass in Tullyesker Hill in 1979?

Wishbone Ash, I think we can agree to split the difference. The Oireachtas reports record

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Tully): I am advised that it is expected that the new bridge will be completed and opened to traffic by July, 1976.

murphaph · 07-07-2007 12:30am

Hamndegger wrote:

Just as a by thought, would it be correct to say that the M 1 from Whitehall to the Coolock Lane turn off is the first dual carriage to be closed permantly in Ireland?

No, this is!

murphaph · 07-07-2007 10:30am

Any info on the N13 out of Letterkenny?

Prof_V · 07-07-2007 12:25pm

Hamndegger wrote:

The N 81 from Tymon/Glenview to Templeogue was there mid 80's as I recall going to an event in Cheeverstown on it. 1987 sounds right As to when it was opened, there is a stone on the New Templeogue bridge which should reveal a definitive date of it's being opened; two and two would make the bridge and by pass being of the same project so next time one of use passes it, that is one arguement that can be closed.

I'm not sure the dual carriageway followed immediately on from the new bridge, though they were obviously part of the same overall project. From memory I think the stone says something like 1984 or 1985, though I'm not entirely sure.

mysterious · 07-07-2007 12:53pm

The Rathcoole bypass was built in the late 1950s I think.....

icdg · 07-07-2007 2:02pm

Hamndegger wrote:

Just as a by thought, would it be correct to say that the M 1 from Whitehall to the Coolock Lane turn off is the first dual carriage to be closed permantly in Ireland?

Plus it hasn't really been closed, it just isn't a dual carrigeway anymore. Or a motorway for that matter, though I'm not sure what the legal mechanism for undeclaring it a motorway was. The old Coolock Lane northbound off-ramp is now the exit for non-motorway traffic and motorway regulations begin immediately after this turn-off.

But anyways...I'm wondering what road signage was like on these early dual carrigeways. Surely the pre-1970s road signs would have been woefully inadequate for a dual carrigeway?

murphaph · 07-07-2007 2:48pm

icdg wrote:

But anyways...I'm wondering what road signage was like on these early dual carrigeways. Surely the pre-1970s road signs would have been woefully inadequate for a dual carrigeway?

2000's signage is woefully inadequate for our current motorways and dual carriageways

In fact, our yellow diamond signs date back to the 50's but it wasn't until 1979 I believe that the 'Dual Carriageway Ahead' sign was legislated for though it was (as is usual) probably used on the ground long before entering the statute book!

We copied a lot of UK stuff back then. Our sign to warn of an impending dual carriageway (not a junction with one as above) was identical to theirs and can be seen below. In fact, you can still see one of these pretty battered signs at the start of the R445 (former N7) DC in Newbridge, just outside Wyeth, obviously on the northbound carriageway!

Wishbone Ash · 07-07-2007 3:54pm

murphaph wrote:

Any info on the N13 out of Letterkenny?

Don't know anything detailed about it other than that it was constructed in the mid 1980s and opened around 1987/1988 I think. I don't know how much of the old road still exists. The old right turn for Lifford/Dublin used to be on a bend with a stone wall to the left if memory serves me correctly.

The dual carriageway section begins at the dry arch roundabout outside Letterkenny and ends at the next roundabout at the turn-off for Derry. The next section (N14) to Lifford is long due for upgrading.

JupiterKid · 07-07-2007 7:32pm

The N13 dual carriageway east of Letterkenny was opened to traffic in 1990. It replaced a hideously poor standard road.

When was the Naas to Newbridge dual carriageway opened?

Victor · 07-07-2007 9:30pm

JupiterKid wrote:

The N13 dual carriageway east of Letterkenny was opened to traffic in 1990. It replaced a hideously poor standard road.

I was sure that it was later than this. I'll dig out my old Michelin maps. It is of course the Manorcunningham Bypass also.

When was the Naas to Newbridge dual carriageway opened?

After the Naas Road and before the Naas Bypass.

Some info here: http://www.nra.ie/News/DownloadableDocumentation/file,1204,en.PDF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N7_road

Victor · 11-07-2007 5:41am

Oh, I think the Oranmore Bypass was about 1984, with the Galway Eastern Approach Road following in stages.

invincibleirish · 11-07-2007 3:48pm

how old is the mini DC in wilton in Cork city,its been there for as long as i remember and im old (well 22...)

MLM · 11-07-2007 4:32pm

invincibleirish wrote:

how old is the mini DC in wilton in Cork city,its been there for as long as i remember and im old (well 22...)

I think it was built when the hospital opened, which would have been around 1978

Happy Bertie · 11-07-2007 5:23pm

Could anyone post a scan of their old Michelin maps. I think I still have the 1989, and the more recent 1999, 2000 Michelin Ireland maps. Even though the Michelin maps were not always completely accurate, they do give an indication of road improvements as they illustrate the widths of the road at a number of levels. I'm hopefully going to scan in my 1989 and 2000 maps and post links to them, sometime "soon".

PS. Isn't it amazing that a typical modern day road scheme has more kms than the entire total kms of dual carriageways Ireland had over 20 years ago.

Wishbone Ash · 11-07-2007 8:57pm

Wishbone Ash wrote:

it was constructed in the mid 1980s and opened around 1987/1988 I think

JupiterKid wrote:

The N13 dual carriageway east of Letterkenny was opened to traffic in 1990.

Victor wrote:

I was sure that it was later than this. I'll dig out my old Michelin maps. It is of course the Manorcunningham Bypass also

JupiterKid - I stand corrected (again!)

I was up that way yesterday and enquired about it. Work commenced in 1985 and it was opened in late 1990 (possibly November).

Wisbone Ash wrote:

I don't know how much of the old road still exists

To answer my own query - bits of the old road can be seen and is still open to traffic particularly near the Dry Arch roundabout end.

Victor · 12-07-2007 10:21am

MLM wrote:

I think it was built when the hospital opened, which would have been around 1978

I was thinking 1979 when the shopping centre opened, but thereabouts.

First Dual Carriageways in Ireland

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